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  1. #1
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    Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

    Oscar Pistorius: South Africa gears up for its 'trial of the century'

    (CNN) -- He was one of South Africa's favorite sons, an amputee track star who defied all the odds and sprinted into the hearts of millions during the 2012 Summer Olympics in London. She was a staggering beauty with the brains to match, a law graduate and model whose star was on the rise.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/...trial-preview/


    Pistorius channel goes on air in South Africa

    http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_306483/con...tguid=Ip4glGHn
    Watch live: Oscar Pistorius murder trial
    Follow events from Pretoria as paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius appears in court accused of murdering his girlfriend, the model Reeva Steenkamp.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...der-trial.html

    Links:

    Full Indictment-4 Counts-107 Witnesses

    http://www.scribd.com/embeds/1856954...endations=true

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...uling-20140225

    http://www.channel24.co.za/TV/News/D...bloid-20140228

    Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/oscartrial199

    https://twitter.com/GeraldImrayAP

    https://twitter.com/Debora_Patta

    Live Streaming:

    http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_of...l-live-stream/

    http://mybroadband.co.za/news/intern...streaming.html

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch...r-trial-day-9/

    http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistorius2.htm

    Live News Feed

    http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Os...torius_trial_4

    Trial Video Archive:

    http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_of...trial-archive/
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    Last edited by KateB; 05-19-2015 at 10:07 PM. Reason: repair url tags.

  2. #2
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    Updated Trial Schedule


    "The court in Guateng province said that the trial would continue until 4 April, then adjourn for one week before resuming until 16 May.

    "All parties involved" had agreed to the dates, the court said."


    Link - BBC South Africa




    Admin/Mod Note

    Thank you all for participating! This forum has a special dynamic - good sleuthers, intelligent discussions, though provoking opinions expressed ... it makes it enjoyable to read & moderate. We sincerely thank you for that!

    The last few days I've been disappointed to see a few exchanges begin to deteriorate - escalating from a lack of tolerance for differing opinions. Of course opinions are going to differ when a bunch of intelligent, independent thinkers have a discussion. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. I understand the passion but the purpose should not be to change anyone else's mind. Respect your fellow posters and make a conscious effort to be tolerant. Please note that passive-aggressive, snarky, personalized posts will not be tolerated and, beginning immediately, will result in a loss of posting privileges.

    Thanks all.

  3. #3
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    Link



    Link



    yummm! I'm thinking we'll need more napkins!



    Link

  4. #4
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    But I think you might be right lemon. I only vaguely remember this testimony but I remember a lot of people having some sort of epiphany about the window being closed...I just don't remember it being very clear.
    "He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle

  5. #5
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    I hope OP takes the stand this week.
    "He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastasya
    So let's pretend you're right about the timing and source of bangs. OP killed Reeva at 3:00, give or take, and then waited 15 minutes to break down the door.

    You do realize that's not what OP said happened. And if that was the case, then OP allowed Reeva to lay bleeding on the bathroom floor for 10 minutes or so without calling the police, without calling an ambulance, and doing nothing to try to get her out of the toilet stall.

    If 10 minutes elapsed between the shooting and OP hitting the door, then that makes OP a bad liar and guilty as hell. He shots somebody behind a closed door, doesn't know where Reeva is, doesn't look for, doesn't try to get into the bathroom door, doesn't call police, doesn't call an ambulance and doesn't tell Baba he killed anybody.

    So what do you think OP was doing in those 10 minutes, other than screaming out the window like a girl?
    Thanks
    I brought this natasha post across from other thread... locked before I could reply

    Sorry but my post contained a TYPO.. that I seem to have repeated. Typing shots were around 3:00AM... but I actually think they were around 3:10AM

    That is based on Christo Menelaou saying he heard bangs at 3:08 (not testimony yet) as well as Sipps saying there was about 10 minutes between the sets of bangs he heard

    I hope that clears everything up?
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    _________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

  7. #7
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    Come on everybody!

    "He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeeBee View Post
    But I think you might be right lemon. I only vaguely remember this testimony but I remember a lot of people having some sort of epiphany about the window being closed...I just don't remember it being very clear.

    Lol, now I will have to go listen to it all again... if the window had already been closed by OP as well as the sliding doors, curtains, blinds, etc then it stands to reason that the bat whacks after the gunshots would be less likely to have been heard by anyone, correct?

    Whereas if the bat whacks occurred before the gunshots and before OP realized the bathroom window was open for all and sundry to hear the airing of their exchange(I don't recall OP saying anywhere that he closed the window before he advanced on and shot up the toilet room) then I believe the possibility arises that the neighbour/s could have been awoken by the sound of the "get out of my house! etc." and any possible bat whacks, screaming in fear/anger, subsequent gunshots and in case anyone missed it, OP's deliberate trip out to the balcony, after reopening the sliding doors, to call for help after he'd killed RS.

  9. #9
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    http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_of...major-problem/

    A Johannesburg attorney believes the prosecution has "definitely" made a case for murder.
    "He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle

  10. #10
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    'Evidence on scream crucial... expert says'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...eeva-steenkamp
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2009-19/page22


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebel View Post
    'Evidence on scream crucial... expert says'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...eeva-steenkamp
    Wow, great minds, lol.
    "He who introduces KY into the relationship is no abused virgin." - Aristotle

  12. #12
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    It reassured me a bit because the expert is Marius Do Toit who has worked at both prosecution and defence and has handled at least 100 murder cases, he says. Du Toit thinks Nel has woven 'A golden thread'.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2009-19/page22

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpole View Post
    I brought this natasha post across from other thread... locked before I could reply

    Sorry but my post contained a TYPO.. that I seem to have repeated. Typing shots were around 3:00AM... but I actually think they were around 3:10AM

    That is based on Christo Menelaou saying he heard bangs at 3:08 (not testimony yet) as well as Sipps saying there was about 10 minutes between the sets of bangs he heard

    I hope that clears everything up?
    7 minutes is still a huge gap of time not accounted for in OP's version. OP said after the gunshots he backed out of the bathroom, realized RS wasn't in bed, screamed for help, put on his legs, kicked the door, then got the cricket bat.

    I'm having a very difficult time imagining any scenario where it would take 7 minutes between the shooting and getting the cricket bat. I'm also having a hard time believing RS would still be alive 7 minutes after getting shot through the brain.

    I'm also having a hard time imagining 7 minutes would go by without OP calling either he police or an ambulance.

    PLUS... the defense is trying to argue that the shots were tap-tap. How can they argue this if they are saying the sounds were the bat? The bat swings would have much longer delays than describe by any of the witnesses in regard to what they referred to as gunshots.

    Bang.... bang bang bang isn't the sound of swinging a cricket bat.

  14. #14
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    I'm almost ready ... I am watching Dallas Buyers Club (good movie) and have 12 minutes left. Good timing, if I do say so

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastasya View Post
    7 minutes is still a huge gap of time not accounted for in OP's version. OP said after the gunshots he backed out of the bathroom, realized RS wasn't in bed, screamed for help, put on his legs, kicked the door, then got the cricket bat.

    I'm having a very difficult time imagining any scenario where it would take 7 minutes between the shooting and getting the cricket bat. I'm also having a hard time believing RS would still be alive 7 minutes after getting shot through the brain.

    I'm also having a hard time imagining 7 minutes would go by without OP calling either he police or an ambulance.

    PLUS... the defense is trying to argue that the shots were tap-tap. How can they argue this if they are saying the sounds were the bat? The bat swings would have much longer delays than describe by any of the witnesses in regard to what they referred to as gunshots.

    Bang.... bang bang bang isn't the sound of swinging a cricket bat.
    I asked yesterday and James83 (of similar mind to you) replied. Here is that exchange. I have to go update the trial elsewhere... so may not respond again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpole
    I don't disagree with you.
    But after that OP says he went back to toilet door... kicked it etc.... at some stage went to balcony to shout...then went back to bedroom and strapped on his legs, and get cricket bat and then went back to bathroom to hit the door.

    That would have taken some time? You do not think 9 minutes (neither do I) What would you estimate?
    Quote Originally Posted by James83
    Feel like i've been generous with these times
    From last shot back to bedroom- 30 seconds
    Goes back to bathroom and finds toilet door is locked "rushed back to bedroom"- 45 seconds
    opens balcony doors and shouts for help,puts legs on, runs to bathroom kicks door- 2 minutes 30 seconds.
    Back to bedroom gets bat, back to bathroom 30 seconds.
    So personally i feel he would have been back at the toilet door with the bat in around 4 minutes 15 seconds.
    Don't think that's an unreasonable estimate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpole
    OK I'll go along with your time for the sake of the argument (Discussion).

    After doing that OP was then confronted with the state of Reeva in the toilet...perhaps stunned for a short time? He dragged her body out to bathroom to try and assist. That may have used up several minutes? But lets say just 2 minutes.

    So with the time you estimate plus the 2 minute that is a total of 6:15 minutes.

    THAT contradicts the State timeline... absolutely

    Phone call records put time that Burger and Stipp heard bangs at 3:17 (actually a little after) if you add the 6:15 it would have been 6:23+ before OP could possibly have made his first phone call. Yet he made that call at 3:19

    The State contention that the shots were at 3:17 simply does leave time to do much of anything before 3:19 when OP made the call. IMO the shots HAD to be earlier than 3:17.

    Working the calculation back from the phone call at 3:19..... take off the 6 minutes and 15 seconds and the shots would have been at 3:12:45.

    I do not want to labor the point but that is nowhere near the State version of 3:17 and it is getting closer to what Stipp reported as the first set of bangs.

    I am convinced in my mind that Stipp heard bangs that were shots first, and then at around 3:17 he heard bat on door. That is also what burger(s) heard... Bat on door.
    I would add that it might take OP a bit longer than estimated by James, and the time of the shots is NOT set in concrete it could be plus or minus a minute or two. So very easy to accept the time of shots as discussed... it allows some time to do stuff... again the State time for the shots at 3:17 is simply NOT POSSIBLE and so not correct.
    Last edited by Rumpole; 03-24-2014 at 03:27 AM.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    _________ Rage, rage against the dying of the light

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