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  1. #1
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    Investigation Discovery's DARK MINDS: "The Secrets of Israel Keyes" 2-hr. episode

    Thought I would make a thread so we could discuss the show for a bit after it airs -- as I imagine topics may jump around a bit too much to follow comfortably in the other threads. (But after the show-talk guys, back to business as usual!) Hope this is OK to do.

    ETA: Unfortunately, I won't be able to watch as it airs (though I do have someone recording it for me), as I do not have cable or satellite -- unless, that is, someone knows a good (safe, legal, not-too-costly) way to watch online...?
    Last edited by Backwoods; 04-02-2014 at 07:19 PM. Reason: ETA

  2. #2
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    Good idea Backwoods! They may show it on the website, ID, after the show airs for a short while. If so, I will post a link. Will probably eventually end up on YouTube. I have a feeling it is going to be graphic.

    "After the Koenig kidnapping, Keyes reportedly sipped wine in a toolshed outside his home, telling his victim there exactly what he planned to do before he sexually assaulted and killed her, leaving her body in the shed before embarking on a cruise the next day. The series also claims Keyes later sewed open the eyes of the dead and frozen victim to make her look alive as he photographed her with a new copy of a local newspaper." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4999240.html

  3. #3
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    I checked Hulu.com but don't see it showing up to air there. Thanks for creating this thread to discuss the show though!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsctr View Post
    I checked Hulu.com but don't see it showing up to air there. Thanks for creating this thread to discuss the show though!
    I'm watching the Fort Hood shooting, but it comes on again at 11 pm.
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455

    WebSleuths Lingo thread.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...bsleuths-Lingo

    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.


    THE IGNORE BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND!

  5. #5
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    Well? Well? Don't everybody be shy -- I'm counting on y'all to let me know how the show was, until I get a chance to see it myself! LOL

    There's a good many guests showing in the IK subforum tonight (not this thread particularly) -- come on, guests, log in if you're a member; if you're not a member, why not join on up?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    Well? Well? Don't everybody be shy -- I'm counting on y'all to let me know how the show was, until I get a chance to see it myself! LOL

    There's a good many guests showing in the IK subforum tonight (not this thread particularly) -- come on, guests, log in if you're a member; if you're not a member, why not join on up?
    I really enjoyed watching it. So much so, that I have been searching members nics to see if he became a member here. They said he really followed this online. I came up with nothing though. You have to watch it BW!
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455

    WebSleuths Lingo thread.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...bsleuths-Lingo

    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.


    THE IGNORE BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND!

  7. #7
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    Well Backwoods, You know by now I'm certainly not shy....ha ha.....I was disappointed in the show to say the least....Yes the released that he raped men also when he kidnapped them and that he had plans for Bill Currier but he told investigators Bill messed all this up, and the one investigator that was in on almost every meeting said that was the only time they saw Keyes??? embarrassed??? or he definitely did not want this to get out about him raping men and the fact that he enjoyed sex with his dead victims (Yuk)!!!
    made me think immediately of Pastor Carol Daniels that has been discussed in the IK links

    He really hated Christianity they said, and hated all religion...he declared atheism at a young age according to the show....He had an upside down cross ingrained in his body and I cannot remember what they called the other but to me it looked much like a satanic sign I have seen in various places...Some other posters probably know what the correct name would be for this symbol
    M. Phelps did not discover the newest possible victim....it was a lady author (I take this to be the person that done the I. Keyes Blog) and it was not certain he is, but highly probable
    Phelps walked in the neighborhood where Keyes and his GF lived and showed how people had told him that he was kind, honest and more or less just an ordinary man that did carpentery work for his living, However one man that hired him and said he was honest, dependable stated that he worked all hours when he was doing a job, he never took a break, did not take lunch break and talked about how he seemed to give all he had in doing the job he was hired to do...but also stated that Keyes would work very hard, but would come up and tell him sometimes "Hey, I'm going to be traveling for the next 10 days" but this man said he sure never expected anything weird or funny

    I guess I was just disappointed that they never mentioned him being alcoholic...they never mentioned he also was an arsonists, and only showed he abused a cat when in his early years...no mention that Keyes said he got a gun for his 14th birthday, that he told investigators he had started breaking into homes and taking guns and etc. I just feel this could have a big part to do with solving many of Keyes ways, his thinking and etc.

    They did bring out the fact that Keyes disposed of his victims bodies in such a way, they don't think some will ever be found....Lake Crescent is too deep and cold for any divers to be able to go down that far.. Raven as they call him (a serial killer also) said if Keyes disposed of his 1st victim by water, he felt all victims may have been dumped in areas of water....he said from a serial killers view...Whatever works at first, they tend to keep up that way as they continue to kill......My thoughts on this was "Hummmmm" a good place to look now would be places he purchased all those fishing license......because some said he went ice fishing before he dumped Samantha's body in that hole...apparently this was not true, they said he cut a hole as to look as if he was ice fishing and then pushed the bags with her body in that hole..............also according to the show Keyes really didn't like fishing or hunting so all those fishing license will probably turn out to be just a way to cover up disposing of some of the victims bodies...to me this would be a very good place to go forth and look for new possibilities

    The show was interesting for sure and definitely worth the watch, but I just felt that there could have been a lot more added to it, even from all we have discussed on this forum Phelps could have taken some of the possible victims and added some just to see if anyone would come forth with new tips...after I saw he was not the one that came up with the new possible victim, it disappointed me, some that has been brought forth here would just as likely be possibilities as this person.

    So that is my 2 cents worth on the show...LOL
    looking forward to see what others think

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulessa View Post
    I really enjoyed watching it. So much so, that I have been searching members nics to see if he became a member here. They said he really followed this online. I came up with nothing though. You have to watch it BW!
    bbm: Oh, I intend to, as soon as I get an opportunity!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by digndoodle View Post
    Well Backwoods, You know by now I'm certainly not shy....ha ha.....I was disappointed in the show to say the least....

    <respectfully snipped>
    Yeah, I was COUNTING on you, digndoodle!!

    And I really appreciate your preview/review of the show. Value it a lot, too, since it comes from someone who has done as much digging and researching and pondering about the secrets of IK as anyone I "know".

    I'm sorry the show disappointed you -- though I am not really surprised. I've tried not to have TOO high expectations of it...but I am eager to see it. It sounds as if they "gave away" most of the "secrets" in the promos for the show.

    The fishing license thing...that's always intrigued me. I was thinking maybe IK actually did like to fish and actually fished in some of the areas -- but I guess not, huh? Your theory makes perfect sense to me. If you're gonna say, "Oh, I'm fishing" if surprised and questioned near a body of water -- best to have a fishing license, I guess! (I also wonder if maybe SOMETIMES he bought a fishing license to make it appear he was in one area -- when actually he then "went dark" and headed off to somewhere else.)

    Thanks again for your insights, dig!

  10. #10
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    Howdy folks! I agree with digndoodle, Dark Minds did not live up to its hype on the information regarding Keyes. In general, Dark Minds has disappointed me. I'll probably continue to watch it, but I always feel like I missed something at the end.

    I did not know about Keyes' hatred of Christianity. As dignadoodle stated, he had the upsidedown cross and pentagram burned into his shoulder - akin to how livestock are branded with a hot iron IMO! Disturbing! The show never delved into if Keyes was into devil worship, but again pointed out he resented his Christian upbringing ??

    Also, the guy that was interviewed whose identity was hidden had only good things to say. From what I had read online, Keyes was generally a loner and was not that friendly with neighbors. I am sure having a girlfriend and a daughter certainly gave an appearance of a "normal and nice" neighbor, but Dark Minds portrayed Keyes as someone who walked through the neighborhood offering to help neighbors with projects, etc. Ummmm.... not buying that. His GF and little girl now maybe they were friendly and knew the neighbors, but I'm thinking Keyes kept a low profile when at home. Plus the fact that he was always traveling...

    Regarding the animal cruelty when the show portrayed Keyes at 14 (?) and taking his friends out in the woods and shooting the family cat in the stomach because the cat kept getting into the garbage - I believe Keyes knew that behavior was aberrant and he just wanted to see what reaction he would get from his "friends." He derived pleasure from their reaction. Watching the cat run around and around the tree and finally crash into the tree and thinking that was funny did show just how cruel he was and the type of deviant behavior Keyes was capable of doing. I think he just became more aloof and a loner and did not any real friends. I don't know if the GF has spoken, but after the fact a lot of his behavior was a real AHA moment for her. More later....gotta start work. Thanks again for starting this thread Backwoods. Looking forward to getting back here later today for more opinions on the show and the information that was given. Again, it left me feeling we still don't have the whole story.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsctr View Post
    Howdy folks! I agree with digndoodle, Dark Minds did not live up to its hype on the information regarding Keyes. In general, Dark Minds has disappointed me. I'll probably continue to watch it, but I always feel like I missed something at the end.

    I did not know about Keyes' hatred of Christianity. As dignadoodle stated, he had the upsidedown cross and pentagram burned into his shoulder - akin to how livestock are branded with a hot iron IMO! Disturbing! The show never delved into if Keyes was into devil worship, but again pointed out he resented his Christian upbringing ??

    Also, the guy that was interviewed whose identity was hidden had only good things to say. From what I had read online, Keyes was generally a loner and was not that friendly with neighbors. I am sure having a girlfriend and a daughter certainly gave an appearance of a "normal and nice" neighbor, but Dark Minds portrayed Keyes as someone who walked through the neighborhood offering to help neighbors with projects, etc. Ummmm.... not buying that. His GF and little girl now maybe they were friendly and knew the neighbors, but I'm thinking Keyes kept a low profile when at home. Plus the fact that he was always traveling...

    Regarding the animal cruelty when the show portrayed Keyes at 14 (?) and taking his friends out in the woods and shooting the family cat in the stomach because the cat kept getting into the garbage - I believe Keyes knew that behavior was aberrant and he just wanted to see what reaction he would get from his "friends." He derived pleasure from their reaction. Watching the cat run around and around the tree and finally crash into the tree and thinking that was funny did show just how cruel he was and the type of deviant behavior Keyes was capable of doing. I think he just became more aloof and a loner and did not any real friends. I don't know if the GF has spoken, but after the fact a lot of his behavior was a real AHA moment for her. More later....gotta start work. Thanks again for starting this thread Backwoods. Looking forward to getting back here later today for more opinions on the show and the information that was given. Again, it left me feeling we still don't have the whole story.
    I really enjoyed it. I love anything that has to do with IK.
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455

    WebSleuths Lingo thread.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...bsleuths-Lingo

    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.


    THE IGNORE BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND!

  12. #12
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    At the end of the show they said they had a complete listing of where Keys was and when. Did anyone find that? I did not. On the show they showed a map of where the tatted girl ( sorry can't remember her name) thought he was. I thought I saw FL around the Bay area colored in. I would be interested in checking out some of the missing in that area and upper North FL too.
    Your Dream must be greater than your fear!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by digndoodle View Post
    Well Backwoods, You know by now I'm certainly not shy....ha ha.....I was disappointed in the show to say the least....Yes the released that he raped men also when he kidnapped them and that he had plans for Bill Currier but he told investigators Bill messed all this up, and the one investigator that was in on almost every meeting said that was the only time they saw Keyes??? embarrassed??? or he definitely did not want this to get out about him raping men and the fact that he enjoyed sex with his dead victims (Yuk)!!!
    made me think immediately of Pastor Carol Daniels that has been discussed in the IK links

    He really hated Christianity they said, and hated all religion...he declared atheism at a young age according to the show....He had an upside down cross ingrained in his body and I cannot remember what they called the other but to me it looked much like a satanic sign I have seen in various places...Some other posters probably know what the correct name would be for this symbol
    M. Phelps did not discover the newest possible victim....it was a lady author (I take this to be the person that done the I. Keyes Blog) and it was not certain he is, but highly probable
    Phelps walked in the neighborhood where Keyes and his GF lived and showed how people had told him that he was kind, honest and more or less just an ordinary man that did carpentry work for his living, However one man that hired him and said he was honest, dependable stated that he worked all hours when he was doing a job, he never took a break, did not take lunch break and talked about how he seemed to give all he had in doing the job he was hired to do...but also stated that Keyes would work very hard, but would come up and tell him sometimes "Hey, I'm going to be traveling for the next 10 days" but this man said he sure never expected anything weird or funny

    I guess I was just disappointed that they never mentioned him being alcoholic...they never mentioned he also was an arsonists, and only showed he abused a cat when in his early years...no mention that Keyes said he got a gun for his 14th birthday, that he told investigators he had started breaking into homes and taking guns and etc. I just feel this could have a big part to do with solving many of Keyes ways, his thinking and etc.

    They did bring out the fact that Keyes disposed of his victims bodies in such a way, they don't think some will ever be found....Lake Crescent is too deep and cold for any divers to be able to go down that far.. Raven as they call him (a serial killer also) said if Keyes disposed of his 1st victim by water, he felt all victims may have been dumped in areas of water....he said from a serial killers view...Whatever works at first, they tend to keep up that way as they continue to kill......My thoughts on this was "Hummmmm" a good place to look now would be places he purchased all those fishing license......because some said he went ice fishing before he dumped Samantha's body in that hole...apparently this was not true, they said he cut a hole as to look as if he was ice fishing and then pushed the bags with her body in that hole..............also according to the show Keyes really didn't like fishing or hunting so all those fishing license will probably turn out to be just a way to cover up disposing of some of the victims bodies...to me this would be a very good place to go forth and look for new possibilities

    The show was interesting for sure and definitely worth the watch, but I just felt that there could have been a lot more added to it, even from all we have discussed on this forum Phelps could have taken some of the possible victims and added some just to see if anyone would come forth with new tips...after I saw he was not the one that came up with the new possible victim, it disappointed me, some that has been brought forth here would just as likely be possibilities as this person.

    So that is my 2 cents worth on the show...LOL
    looking forward to see what others think
    Thanx for sharing, digndoodle. I didn't get to watch the Dark Minds; Israel Keyes #2 segment. You and others have brought up some very good points. Imo, there will eventually be a segment #3 due to the increased awareness created by the Dark Minds Episodes of IK. Many new tips from citizens & LEAs should come in from the airing, imo.

    The escalation into necrophilia by IK, his satanic tatoos, indicates just how malignant & soulless Israel Keyes had become over decades, imo. IK was the devil's deciple; an emulator of many serial killers past, imo.

    Imo, IK's signature is written all over Pastor Carol Daniels' ritualistic murder, but due to perceived hypothesis and a less than competent investigation, was simply botched..

    * raped men, and the fact that he enjoyed sex with his dead victims(necrophilia)
    * Pastor Carol Daniels; really hated Christianity and hated all religions
    * a good place to look would be places he purchased all those fishing license
    * Pentagram & upside down cross tattoos

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...=carol+daniels

    websleuths -OK - Carol Daniels, 61, found murdered inside her church, 8/24/09

  14. #14
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    I found it very interesting and think a map with a timeline would be great to start sleuthing anyone missing at those times. Like he said, the people wouldn't show up in the news much as they just disappeared. The only time his work got in the news was when he wanted it to with the Curriers and the young barrista he killed. He intentionally escalated his methods to attract attention at that time so everyone else he killed was very "under the radar".

    I just found an FBI timeline with map at this link http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2013...keyes-timeline - I haven't looked into it much but it could be a great help.
    Last edited by Terrib11; 04-03-2014 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Additional Information

  15. #15
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    Maybe a thread by States he was in and timeline and we could check the Charley Project to list missing persons from that timeline and surrounding areas would help.
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