Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

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bessie

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Oscar Pistorius: South Africa gears up for its 'trial of the century'

(CNN) -- He was one of South Africa's favorite sons, an amputee track star who defied all the odds and sprinted into the hearts of millions during the 2012 Summer Olympics in London. She was a staggering beauty with the brains to match, a law graduate and model whose star was on the rise.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-preview/



Pistorius channel goes on air in South Africa

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_306483/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Ip4glGHn
Watch live: Oscar Pistorius murder trial
Follow events from Pretoria as paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius appears in court accused of murdering his girlfriend, the model Reeva Steenkamp.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html


Links:

Full Indictment-4 Counts-107 Witnesses

http://www.scribd.com/embeds/185695...=1&view_mode=scroll&show_recommendations=true

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-broadcast-trial-ruling-20140225

http://www.channel24.co.za/TV/News/DStvs-Oscar-Pretorius-trial-TV-channel-wont-be-tabloid-20140228


Twitter:

https://twitter.com/oscartrial199

https://twitter.com/GeraldImrayAP

https://twitter.com/Debora_Patta

Live Streaming:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-stream/

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/97919-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-live-streaming.html

http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-live-here-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-9/

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistorius2.htm

Live News Feed

http://cnnworldlive.cnn.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_trial_4

Trial Video Archive:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

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Updated Trial Schedule​

Oscar Pistorius trial postponed due to illness of assessor
By Richard Allen Greene, CNN - updated 12:38 PM EDT, Fri March 28, 2014The trial of Oscar Pistorius, accused of killing his former girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, was postponed until April 7 because one of two assessors was hospitalized.
Click to expand...

Admin/Mod Note​

Thank you all for participating! This forum has a special dynamic - good sleuthers, intelligent discussions, though provoking opinions expressed ... it makes it enjoyable to read & moderate. We sincerely thank you for that!

The last few days I've been disappointed to see a few exchanges begin to deteriorate :no: - escalating from a lack of tolerance for differing opinions. Of course opinions are going to differ when a bunch of intelligent, independent thinkers have a discussion. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. I understand the passion but the purpose should not be to change anyone else's mind. Respect your fellow posters and make a conscious effort to be tolerant. Please note that passive-aggressive, snarky, personalized posts will not be tolerated and, beginning immediately, will result in a loss of posting privileges.

Thanks all. :heartbeat:
 
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Continue discussion here...​
 
Thought that was ice cream but can now see it's popcorn.
 
Well just before I retire to bed I thought I'd Google....
"Has Gerrie Nel done enough?"......If you do this you will get pages of supposed expert legal opinion. Some say the case is proven, others say far from it.
IMO I will judge after hearing the defence as Judge Masipa will do.
Yes, At this moment in time I think OP is guilty and needs locking up, I think OP is going to have a tough time on the stand, as indeed he should. I am interested in what the psychologists make of his demeanour. He may be rich, good-looking, an Olympic winner but none of that will help him get out of this.......The TRUTH WILL OUT!

Night guys....:seeya:
 
So if i entertain Oscar's story for just a moment, would anyone tend to believe that Oscar's fear and terror was actually more of an excitement at getting to use his gun for real?, seem's more plausible to me personally.
 
Insp.Dots said:
Well just before I retire to bed I thought I'd Google....
"Has Gerrie Nel done enough?"......If you do this you will get pages of supposed expert legal opinion. Some say the case is proven, others say far from it.
IMO I will judge after hearing the defence as Judge Masipa will do.
Yes, At this moment in time I think OP is guilty and needs locking up, I think OP is going to have a tough time on the stand, as indeed he should. I am interested in what the psychologists make of his demeanour. He may be rich, good-looking, an Olympic winner but none of that will help him get out of this.......The TRUTH WILL OUT!

Night guys....:seeya:
Click to expand...

The issue for me for the state has always been the premeditated part, because depending on what you read even the state's version of events may only be enough for Murder rather than Premeditated, premeditated seems to be a real grey area in South African law, my own feeling/theory is when Oscar first picked up the gun he was intending to intimidate rather than actually use it but something made him snap and fire, i have no idea if that would be considered murder or pre med in South Africa?.
 
Hi everyone, marking my spot.

Remind me: we are back on next Monday, yes?
 
james83 said:
The issue for me for the state has always been the premeditated part, because depending on what you read even the state's version of events may only be enough for Murder rather than Premeditated, premeditated seems to be a real grey area in South African law, my own feeling/theory is when Oscar first picked up the gun he was intending to intimidate rather than actually use it but something made him snap and fire, i have no idea if that would be considered murder or pre med in South Africa?.
Click to expand...

Well i think if you go with his version, where he thinks there is an intruder (or several extremely slim intruders) and he deliberately fetches his gun and then fires it several times into the cubicle, my layman's view would be that the decision to get the gun and go and fire it that many times rather than triggering his security system and running for it should be enough for premeditation.
 
james83 said:
So if i entertain Oscar's story for just a moment, would anyone tend to believe that Oscar's fear and terror was actually more of an excitement at getting to use his gun for real?, seem's more plausible to me personally.
Click to expand...

That could be a big part of the problem James.

It's one thing to be in fear for your life, but this could be due to some kind of odd need for an adrenalin rush.

He undoubtedly has a reckless irresponsible attitude towards things, we only need to look at what he's done in the past. He's also shown a disregard for potential outcomes.
There was the speedboat incident, driving cars at crazy speeds and discharging of firearms in public places.
He's got away with things before, and it's probably because of who he is.

It's like he's remorseful now, but he should have seen it coming a while ago. For that reason even though I think the prosecution have overcharged, I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
 
Lyra500 said:
Well i think if you go with his version, where he thinks there is an intruder (or several extremely slim intruders) and he deliberately fetches his gun and then fires it several times into the cubicle, my layman's view would be that the decision to get the gun and go and fire it that many times rather than triggering his security system and running for it should be enough for premeditation.
Click to expand...
Yes... premeditated self defense, IF you believe OP's version.
 
james83 said:
The issue for me for the state has always been the premeditated part, because depending on what you read even the state's version of events may only be enough for Murder rather than Premeditated, premeditated seems to be a real grey area in South African law, my own feeling/theory is when Oscar first picked up the gun he was intending to intimidate rather than actually use it but something made him snap and fire, i have no idea if that would be considered murder or pre med in South Africa?.
Click to expand...

Same here. And having listened and read SA lawyers opinion, even they aren't clear on it. The onus IS on the State to prove intentional, and the fact OP fired 4 shots leads to Murder, YET many say that if the Defence can show OP was acting....not as a reasonable person but as a reasonable disabled person may he could get downgraded to Culpable Homicide. If the lawyers don't know I sincerely hope the Judge does!
 
Rumpole said:
Yes.... 9:30AM Joburg time.

Has anybody seen an update on the Assessor who was sick?

Will she be OK to continue?

If not, there could be more delays.
Click to expand...


If a new assessor they suggested was to replace, he/she may have been catching up this last week in readiness, should they be required, to prevent further delay.
 
steveml said:
That could be a big part of the problem James.

It's one thing to be in fear for your life, but this could be due to some kind of odd need for an adrenalin rush.

He undoubtedly has a reckless irresponsible attitude towards things, we only need to look at what he's done in the past. He's also shown a disregard for potential outcomes.
There was the speedboat incident, driving cars at crazy speeds and discharging of firearms in public places.
He's got away with things before, and it's probably because of who he is.

It's like he's remorseful now, but he should have seen it coming a while ago. For that reason even though I think the prosecution have overcharged, I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he was always an accident waiting to happen, shouldn't be a surprise that him or someone close to him should end up dead i suppose.
 
My overall belief is that there ARE some good points raised here questioning OP's actions... in the belief that there was an intruder. However, Nel has not addressed those issues at all. He has been attempting to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that OP is lying and that he shot at the door KNOWING that Reeva was behind it.

IMO Nel has failed to prove that... and so needs to do a lot of "catch up" to prove the sorts of things that people have raised about how reckless/criminal it was to fire at "an intruder"
 
Rumpole said:
Yes... premeditated self defense, IF you believe OP's version.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that's a step too far for me - i do not view it as self defence. It was an aggressive act, not a defensive one.

My own personal view of course.
 
Insp.Dots said:
Same here. And having listened and read SA lawyers opinion, even they aren't clear on it. The onus IS on the State to prove intentional, and the fact OP fired 4 shots leads to Murder, YET many say that if the Defence can show OP was acting....not as a reasonable person but as a reasonable disabled person may he could get downgraded to Culpable Homicide. If the lawyers don't know I sincerely hope the Judge does!
Click to expand...

If they're discriminating between reasonable person and reasonable DISABLED person, that's awful!! Still a reasonable person call, with appendage of disability, for consideration, surely?
 
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