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  1. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaZara View Post
    Wrong map. Please make sure you have the right Snake river. :-)
    [...]
    The first stream you cross after the Continental Divide is (also) called Culebra. It flows north, left of the Alto Romero settlement. See this map the search team used to see the stream they named Culebra:

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch765 View Post
    Hi KingRoad, In which dutch news did they show a map with findings? I see now it's NOS 27 June.
    [...]
    Yeah, see here for a snapshot of the map in the news broadcast:
    http://imageshack.com/a/img822/6399/7sel.jpg

  3. #618
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    Yes, it's from another location, that's right. Still it gives a nice impression.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    It appears that they were simply unaware of the dangers and difficulties associated with a hike in the jungle.
    Yes, i agree on that.

  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaZara View Post
    Wrong map. Please make sure you have the right Snake river. :-)

    The backpack was found near the confluence of the river Locally Known as Culebra and the Changuinola.
    The locals then proceeded to search the stream UPSTREAM from the location of the backpack, and found shoes, bones and clothing.
    Of all findings, the backpack has travelled the farthest.

    All findings have been made between a dangerous spot where the original Pianista TRAIL (NOT the hike, the hike stops at the Continential Divide but the trail goes on) crosses the river Locally Known as Culebra, and the place near the rice field where the backpack was found.
    I think the location the Dutch news showed tonight, was wrong indeed. If I combine all the reliable news I can find from Dutch and Panamese media about the location of the bones and boots, then I think it should be somewhere left of the words "river locally known as Culebra" on my latest map.

    In the neighbourhood of Alto Romero, a few kilometres/hours upstream from the location where the backpack was found.

    Makes more sense as well. The backback could easily have ended up more downstream than the girls due to the flow of the river.

  6. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    It has been said that the continental divide was not marked, but that doesn't seem to be a factor in this. It seems to me that they arrived at the top of the trail at about 5-5:30PM (having started the hike at the restaurant at about 3-3:30PM). Perhaps they read that it is a couple of hours to hike up, and an hour to hike down. I've read that in researching information about the trail. I think the hike down is faster because it's downhill, but it would be easy enough to misunderstand and believe that the hike down is faster because the trail is shorter ... that is, to continue on the trail.
    So instead of turning back on the same path which brought them up, they went down on the path that led them further into the jungle thinking this was the path that should bring them back to the restaurant.

    Seems plausible to me.

  7. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingRoad View Post
    Yeah, see here for a snapshot of the map in the news broadcast:
    http://imageshack.com/a/img822/6399/7sel.jpg
    (I removed my misinterpretation of the latest map)

    That first crossing in the search map is the easy one, next come the hard ones. If they 'lived for few days', I don't think the fell into the easy one but they got much further.

    Attached there's Blue again, waiting for the reporter and guide to return and walking down the trail with them. At least that story is confirmed to be true.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dutch765; 06-27-2014 at 06:07 PM.

  8. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch765 View Post
    Yes, I saw it already, but thanks anyway.

    Makes no sense to me. They have a reporter on site that talked to the guides. She must know the correct location. The pictures looks similar to video I have seen from it.

    The pictures show a helicopter on a hill and many locals. This looks more Culebra than Culubre area, if you zoom in with Bing and look at the landscape (cow area). Rivers in the pictures also don't look very wide.
    The hill is for 99% sure Alto Romero. That's also where investigators landed to go to the place where the backpack was found.

    The location the Dutch news showed tonight was not near the Culubre river by the way. The Culubre river is 35 km away from the top of the Pianista trail, the location they showed tonight 15 km (in a straight line). But both seem to be wrong.

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingRoad View Post
    The hill is for 99% sure Alto Romero. That's also where investigators landed to go to the place where the backpack was found.

    The location the Dutch news showed tonight was not near the Culubre river by the way. The Culubre river is 35 km away from the top of the Pianista trail, the location they showed tonight 15 km (in a straight line). But both seem to be wrong.
    You know, we have become too smart for them at WS.

  10. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingRoad View Post
    The hill is for 99% sure Alto Romero. That's also where investigators landed to go to the place where the backpack was found.

    The location the Dutch news showed tonight was not near the Culubre river by the way. The Culubre river is 35 km away from the top of the Pianista trail, the location they showed tonight 15 km (in a straight line). But both seem to be wrong.
    Correct, my mistake. I thought you showed Culubre, didn't zoom enough into your huge map.
    Last edited by Dutch765; 06-27-2014 at 08:59 PM.


  11. #626
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    To me the situation is almost clear:

    assumption 1:
    since there was still money in the backpack (no robery) and the camera as well (criminal would get rid of this, because of proof) I think a crime is very unlikely.

    1. They started walking up to the CD.
    2. Since the backpack was found after the CD, they also passed the CD
    Noting the trail after the CD is much harder to go by and easier to get lost as stated before.
    Why did they do this?
    theory a: they didnt notice it (maybe the road goes up and down all the time? or is it up all the way?) and continued walking untill it was too dark and/or to hard to find the way.
    theory b: they thought the trail is a 'round walk' as somebody suggested (I made that mistake once myself) and continued walking untill it was too dark and/or to hard to find the way.
    theory c: they thought there were several ways back (so they had to be disorrientated a bit as well) (hating to walk the same route again) and continued walking untill it was too dark and/or to hard to find the way.
    theory d: its the facebook generation, wanting to have real experiences. Seeing the 'real' jungle after the CD, they said to each other, lets get in it for a few 100 m's and then turn back, but lost their way quite fast.
    3. They had to spend the night in the jungle.
    4. They couldnt find the way back to the CD and wandered for a time (several days as suggested before).
    5. They had to cross a dangerous river.
    Since they were 2 girls, afraid, they took the risk together (maybe holding each other to have more balance) and lost their balance and died in the river.
    6. The river took their bags downstream.

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeroen View Post
    To me the situation is almost clear:

    assumption 1:
    since there was still money in the backpack (no robery) and the camera as well (criminal would get rid of this, because of proof) I think a crime is very unlikely.

    1. They started walking up to the CD.
    2. Since the backpack was found after the CD, they also passed the CD
    Noting the trail after the CD is much harder to go by and easier to get lost as stated before.
    Why did they do this?
    theory a: they didnt notice it (maybe the road goes up and down all the time? or is it up all the way?) and continued walking untill it was too dark and/or to hard to find the way.
    theory b: they thought the trail is a 'round walk' as somebody suggested (I made that mistake once myself) and continued walking untill it was too dark and/or to hard to find the way.
    theory c: they thought there were several ways back (so they had to be disorrientated a bit as well) (hating to walk the same route again) and continued walking untill it was too dark and/or to hard to find the way.
    theory d: its the facebook generation, wanting to have real experiences. Seeing the 'real' jungle after the CD, they said to each other, lets get in it for a few 100 m's and then turn back, but lost their way quite fast.
    3. They had to spend the night in the jungle.
    4. They couldnt find the way back to the CD and wandered for a time (several days as suggested before).
    5. They had to cross a dangerous river.
    Since they were 2 girls, afraid, they took the risk together (maybe holding each other to have more balance) and lost their balance and died in the river.
    6. The river took their bags downstream.
    This indeed is are very likely scenario.

    At crossing the river they may not only be scared, but also very weak:
    - After several days without proper food or from possible dehydration.
    - It's wet (crossings, mist, mud, rain) and it's cold at night.
    - They may have gotten ill from drinking the river water or eating the wrong fruits. That would have weakened them even more.
    - They could have gotten infections from small cuts (rocks, branches) during the hike of from those 'sand flies' and mosquito's.
    - And there's a reason the local call it snake river.

    That makes it also likely that they just perished on the river bank and were washed away when the water level rose.

  13. #628
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    Jun 2014
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    Maryland, USA
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    Hi Jeroen,
    I've been reading this forum for the last three days and I think your conclusions have to be close to what happened.

    I'm impressed by the analytical brain power of some of the people here. They have made sense out of a mix of sometimes conflicting stories.

    I'm wondering if the girls were city kids. As they continued their hike after spending the night out of doors, why didn't they wonder why they had not arrived back in the vicinity of Boquete after walking down hill for several hours? Even if they didn't arrive exactly back at Boquete, they should have been seeing indications that they had returned to a populated area. Why did they not notice by the motion of the sun that they were walking in a northerly direction most of the time? Since they left Boquete heading in perhaps a N.E. direction, continuing to head in a similar direction would continue to take them further from home. I don't understand why they didn't try to go back the other way. They must have been city girls who didn't appreciate that they were on the edge of a vast wilderness that they should steer clear of.

    They should have at least brought along a map. Mother Nature is sometimes unforgiving of error. A very sad outcome.
    Last edited by IceT; 06-27-2014 at 09:14 PM.

  14. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sphaera View Post
    So instead of turning back on the same path which brought them up, they went down on the path that led them further into the jungle thinking this was the path that should bring them back to the restaurant.

    Seems plausible to me.
    I think it's possible that this is what they thought. I can't imagine that they would decide so late in the afternoon to continue farther into the jungle. I think they made a mistake when they did that.

  15. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceT View Post
    Hi Jeroen,
    I've been reading this forum for the last three days and I think your conclusions have to be close to what happened.

    I'm impressed by the analytical brain power of some of the people here. They have made sense out of a mix of sometimes conflicting stories.

    I'm wondering if the girls were city kids. As they continued their hike after spending the night out of doors, why didn't they wonder why they had not arrived back in the vicinity of Boquete after walking down hill for several hours? Even if they didn't arrive exactly back at Boquete, they should have been seeing indications that they had returned to a populated area. Why did they not notice by the motion of the sun that they were walking in a northerly direction most of the time? Since they left Boquete heading in perhaps a N.E. direction, continuing to head in a similar direction would continue to take them further from home. I don't understand why they didn't try to go back the other way. They must have been city girls who didn't appreciate that they were on the edge of a vast wilderness that they should steer clear of.

    They should have at least brought along a map. Mother Nature is sometimes unforgiving of error. A very sad outcome.
    The "city girls" phrase is probably accurate. Growing up in the country, one quickly learns to read the sun and to estimate time. Having a sense of direction is very important. Without a sense of direction, a common city people problem, it's understandable that they didn't think twice about whether it was a good decision to continue on the trail. It's also possible that they knew that they were going in the wrong direction, but expected that the trail would curve around back to the start of their hike

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