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  1. #1
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    Israel Keyes...and cemeteries

    The topic of cemeteries crops up a lot with IK, it seems to me:

    (1) I know that when the FBI first began releasing info and timelines, etc., regarding IK, there was a press release that read, in part (and also many resulting news stories based on this release), bbm:


    ...Investigators believe that Keyes did not know any of his victims prior to their abductions. He described several remote locations that he frequented to look for victims—parks, campgrounds, trailheads, cemeteries, boating areas, etc. ...
    http://www.fbi.gov/anchorage/press-r...g-israel-keyes

    Can anyone tell me if audio/video of an interview with IK in which he specifically mentioned cemeteries was released? (Or do you think, possibly, the FBI just included cemeteries as another example of an isolated place that might be right up IK's alley?)

    I keep wondering IF he actually took a victim from a cemetery. Maybe that is something we should be on the lookout for, as we look for possible victims -- anyone who disappeared in the vicinity of a cemetery, soon after a death in the family, etc. --along with other criteria, of course (fitting the timelines, etc.).

    Sure makes me think about Derrick Todd Lee's victim, Trineisha Dene Columb, who was visiting her mother's grave in Louisiana when Lee abducted her. (He seemed to have had a thing for cemeteries, himself.) Lee's DNA pretty much settles the question of who murdered her, of course -- but I wonder if IK might have taken a victim in similar circumstances? Of course, someone may have been in/near a cemetery without anyone knowing that was their destination or having a vehicle nearby that would be a clue -- but I think it's worth keeping an eye open for.

    (2) What all do we know about the FBI's saying that Keyes is thought to have visited the Post Oak Cemetery in Glen Rose, TX, in February 2013 -- not long before he was captured (March 2013)?

    This much I know:

    ...Investigators believe Keyes’ rented blue 2011 Kia Soul, with Texas license plate NCN8 M857, may have become stuck in mud near the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

    “Keyes is suspected to have specifically traveled through various cities in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, and the Glenrose, (Texas) areas during February 2012,” officials wrote. “Prior to his suicide, while in custody, Keyes admitted traveling through the cities of Azle, Aledo and Cleburne, (Texas) during February of 2012. Investigators suspect Keyes’ rental vehicle became stuck in a muddy, rural area, possibly near Cleburne, Texas between February 12 and 16, 2012.” ...

    ...Investigators say Keyes may have also visited the Post Oak Cemetery in Glen Rose, Texas during his February trip. ...
    http://articles.ktuu.com/2013-01-17/...-lake_36400863


    Has anything further about the Post Oak Cemetery visit come out?


    (3) Finally, in the writings IK left behind when he killed himself, there is, of course, the part that reads: (bbm)


    ...Where will you go, you clever little worm, if you bleed your host dry?


    Back in your ride, the night is still young, streetlights push back the black in neat rows. Off to the right a graveyard appears, lines of stones, bodies molder below. Turn away quick, bob your head to the seat, as straight through that stop sign you roll loaded truck with lights off slams into you broadside, your flesh smashed as metal explodes.


    You may have been free, you loved living your lie, fate had its own scheme crushed like a bug you still die.

    Soon, now, you'll join those ranks of dead or your ashes the wind will soon blow. Family and friends will shed a few tears, pretend it's off to heaven you go. But the reality is you were just bones and meat, and with your brain died also your soul. ...
    Just part of his death-oriented, nihilistic focus...? Likely so, but since it touches on the "cemeteries" topic of this thread I'm starting, I thought I should include it.

  2. #2
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods View Post
    The topic of cemeteries crops up a lot with IK, it seems to me:

    (1) I know that when the FBI first began releasing info and timelines, etc., regarding IK, there was a press release that read, in part (and also many resulting news stories based on this release), bbm:


    http://www.fbi.gov/anchorage/press-r...g-israel-keyes

    Can anyone tell me if audio/video of an interview with IK in which he specifically mentioned cemeteries was released? (Or do you think, possibly, the FBI just included cemeteries as another example of an isolated place that might be right up IK's alley?)

    I keep wondering IF he actually took a victim from a cemetery. Maybe that is something we should be on the lookout for, as we look for possible victims -- anyone who disappeared in the vicinity of a cemetery, soon after a death in the family, etc. --along with other criteria, of course (fitting the timelines, etc.).

    Sure makes me think about Derrick Todd Lee's victim, Trineisha Dene Columb, who was visiting her mother's grave in Louisiana when Lee abducted her. (He seemed to have had a thing for cemeteries, himself.) Lee's DNA pretty much settles the question of who murdered her, of course -- but I wonder if IK might have taken a victim in similar circumstances? Of course, someone may have been in/near a cemetery without anyone knowing that was their destination or having a vehicle nearby that would be a clue -- but I think it's worth keeping an eye open for.

    (2) What all do we know about the FBI's saying that Keyes is thought to have visited the Post Oak Cemetery in Glen Rose, TX, in February 2013 -- not long before he was captured (March 2013)?

    This much I know:

    http://articles.ktuu.com/2013-01-17/...-lake_36400863


    Has anything further about the Post Oak Cemetery visit come out?


    (3) Finally, in the writings IK left behind when he killed himself, there is, of course, the part that reads: (bbm)


    Just part of his death-oriented, nihilistic focus...? Likely so, but since it touches on the "cemeteries" topic of this thread I'm starting, I thought I should include it.
    Backwoods, on this I am totally clueless...I did read about the cemetary in Texas they thought he visited while there, but other than that I have not heard any other report concerning him and cemetaries....but when I read this, it immediately took me back to the release of his suicide note and he talks about passing cemetaries and talks how he saw what lay under a gravesite....so in some way I would think FBI had some leads making them suspicious about him doing some crimes in these places and as we all know I'm sure this would have only added to his "High" thinking he was doing something really scary and would freak whomever found a body there out
    Glad you put up the thread for this

  3. #3
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    Why is this guy so important to a lot of us? There's nothing special about him at all, but yet he continues to intrigue me and others. Is it his MO? He certainly had a MO different than other SK's!
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455



    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulessa View Post
    Why is this guy so important to a lot of us? There's nothing special about him at all, but yet he continues to intrigue me and others. Is it his MO? He certainly had a MO different than other SK's!
    Why is this guy so important to a lot of us? There's nothing special about him at all, but yet he continues to intrigue me and others. Is it his MO? He certainly had a MO different than other SK's!
    __________________

    I have no idea but have been almost driven crazy by it. I think it is the randomness of his MO that kinda freaks me out. Another WSer has the quote at the bottom of their post that is something like "we are all just one wrong decision from being a topic on WS" but the known victims aleast didn't make a wrong decision they were doing very normal things.... working and sleeping. They didn't assiocate with him in anyway, they weren't in "the wrong place" they weren't living a risky life so that means most of us could potentially have been a victim of his. In fact I have only been to LA twice and Vegas twice in my life and according to the timeline he was in LA (area) my first trip there and Vegas my first trip there. So a lot of my intrigue comes from fear in a way because you can be doing everything right and BAM!!!! psycho.

    I have often wondered about the cemeteries and would think back to when my father passed away. Many (too many to count) times my mother would go very early in the morning or late in the evening and just sit there talking at his grave side. I think this was also could have been just chance random way to find potential victims in isolated unpopulated places.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulessa View Post
    Why is this guy so important to a lot of us? There's nothing special about him at all, but yet he continues to intrigue me and others. Is it his MO? He certainly had a MO different than other SK's!
    He's not "important" to me- just intriguing/interesting as a person. He was different from other SK, IMO. Special? Maybe.

    I find his thinking very problematic in how he worried about his daughter/family (especially the daughter part, for me) and their finding out the whole of his killing career. It just doesn't fit my idea of a SK. There's something there, in his mind- he knew he was wrong, but something compelled him to kill- that something that other SKs have, unfortunately. The other SKs were/are just "ordinary" nut-jobs to me. Maybe it's because there's not that much info on Israel as the other SK???

    No conscience? I think he had some sort of "code/conscience" when he said that after he had his daughter, killing children were off limits. At least some sort of conscience/limit were there. IMO- I just don't know what kind it was. I've scoured tons of articles on conscience, SK, etc., to see how I can try to see what made him tick and how it relates to him. I'm still not satisfied, yet.

    I have years of files on him- what can I say. He's "interesting" to me. I need to find out what made him tick- somehow, since there's no more real info on him since he committed suicide. And his committing suicide was so important to how/what I think of him. He really didn't want to talk anymore about his murders for the whole world to see (the murders were just for him) and knew the FBI would somehow get more info on him and he fixed that by killing himself. Done.

    Special? To me he was especially different and I guess that makes him "special". Here's a very smart ('til the end, where he said he was getting stupid), very organized, not taking any chances with evidence and picking people who might not be missed (where they "came to me"), man who was well-liked (even if the people involved didn't really "know" him), and seemed to be a hard worker, who could have been a very upright citizen in the world, but chose to be a killer. It blows my mind.

    It only leads me to believe that there was something "not right" in how he grew up that contributed to his mentality. Having a very religious upbringing may have soured his outlook on life, never mind the loads of siblings he grew up with. He may have needed more care as a child- a more cuddling love or something important to him. It might have made a difference. And maybe he needed more direction when he was young. Who knows, as his family is not talking (except maybe his sister, Autuumrose, who talked about her family and how they grew up- in her church manifesto) what really happened?
    When he attended his sisters' wedding, he cried and told people they didn't know what he had /has done. There, too me, was 'something" there- a torment that he wasn't like other people. Why would he cry? A ruse, to fool people? I don't know.

    But, of course, all the love/care may have not made a difference in any event, if some experts are correct that some people are just a "bad seed" with no conscience- with no help for them.

    But what do I know. He was a killer and very bad to do the things he did and I don't condone anything he did- for whatever reason. I just want/need to understand, I guess like everyone else. I know- I'm crazy for wanting to know more.

    Anyway-All my lowly opinion, of course- I'm no expert, for sure.
    ----------------------

    Travis Alexander (1977-2008)

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba (RIP sweet baby)
    -------------------------
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. - Ian MacLaren

    The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it - Flannery O'connor

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by YESorNO View Post
    He's not "important" to me- just intriguing/interesting as a person. He was different from other SK, IMO. Special? Maybe.

    I find his thinking very problematic in how he worried about his daughter/family (especially the daughter part, for me) and their finding out the whole of his killing career. It just doesn't fit my idea of a SK. There's something there, in his mind- he knew he was wrong, but something compelled him to kill- that something that other SKs have, unfortunately. The other SKs were/are just "ordinary" nut-jobs to me. Maybe it's because there's not that much info on Israel as the other SK???

    No conscience? I think he had some sort of "code/conscience" when he said that after he had his daughter, killing children were off limits. At least some sort of conscience/limit were there. IMO- I just don't know what kind it was. I've scoured tons of articles on conscience, SK, etc., to see how I can try to see what made him tick and how it relates to him. I'm still not satisfied, yet.

    I have years of files on him- what can I say. He's "interesting" to me. I need to find out what made him tick- somehow, since there's no more real info on him since he committed suicide. And his committing suicide was so important to how/what I think of him. He really didn't want to talk anymore about his murders for the whole world to see (the murders were just for him) and knew the FBI would somehow get more info on him and he fixed that by killing himself. Done.

    Special? To me he was especially different and I guess that makes him "special". Here's a very smart ('til the end, where he said he was getting stupid), very organized, not taking any chances with evidence and picking people who might not be missed (where they "came to me"), man who was well-liked (even if the people involved didn't really "know" him), and seemed to be a hard worker, who could have been a very upright citizen in the world, but chose to be a killer. It blows my mind.

    It only leads me to believe that there was something "not right" in how he grew up that contributed to his mentality. Having a very religious upbringing may have soured his outlook on life, never mind the loads of siblings he grew up with. He may have needed more care as a child- a more cuddling love or something important to him. It might have made a difference. And maybe he needed more direction when he was young. Who knows, as his family is not talking (except maybe his sister, Autuumrose, who talked about her family and how they grew up- in her church manifesto) what really happened?
    When he attended his sisters' wedding, he cried and told people they didn't know what he had /has done. There, too me, was 'something" there- a torment that he wasn't like other people. Why would he cry? A ruse, to fool people? I don't know.

    But, of course, all the love/care may have not made a difference in any event, if some experts are correct that some people are just a "bad seed" with no conscience- with no help for them.

    But what do I know. He was a killer and very bad to do the things he did and I don't condone anything he did- for whatever reason. I just want/need to understand, I guess like everyone else. I know- I'm crazy for wanting to know more.

    Anyway-All my lowly opinion, of course- I'm no expert, for sure.
    I'm certainly no expert either, but I do have a theory in my mind why IK may have suffered growing up as he did....I have went back to Autumnrose's testimony several times and I believe there is a whole story just in that testimony...What is she trying to tell the world????...........The part that hit me and made me start to try and understand what a few sentences of that was saying, after she talks about rebelling and falling into a world of unforgivable sin...she talks on about when her "Father" found out and chose to UP THE FAMILY and move them across the country in an Amish setting and she says "WE LOOKED NORMAL AGAIN...we appeared to be a normal-religious family" (may not be exact words, but close) but she says that even after all this, there was NOT any affection showed in our home???????...Is she saying the Mom and Dad never got along and talked...or did they choose to distance themselves away from the kids and maybe just offer a roof, food and some necessities???.....There is a whole story somewhere in those few sentences, this child I feel is still troubled today and I feel she was trying to give the world a hint, a clue as to what type of home she grew up in even until her teen years...What is she trying to tell us???
    I know the father died in 2002 on a train trip from Maine to California of a thyroid disease....Maybe me just trying to be nosey, but you can find absolutely -0- on the web of this man, only his date of death and I did find a short obit at one msm link at one time or the other.....and this article has always puzzled me.............Some say that IK's father bought him the old run down home in Constable N.Y.....but on another site I read lately they think perhaps this might have been IK's Father's brother???? or maybe someone in the KEYES side of the family...Find it very odd that both were names Israel
    Would love to hear others opinion.....Do you think this might have been a Big Issue in the IK family and perhaps started his own sick demented way of life???

    http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/a...#axzz30KSe6szO

    http://jmgardner.files.wordpress.com...-testimony.pdf


    ================================================== =====
    Last edited by digndoodle; 04-29-2014 at 09:44 PM. Reason: adding link

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by digndoodle View Post
    I'm certainly no expert either, but I do have a theory in my mind why IK may have suffered growing up as he did....I have went back to Autumnrose's testimony several times and I believe there is a whole story just in that testimony...What is she trying to tell the world????...........The part that hit me and made me start to try and understand what a few sentences of that was saying, after she talks about rebelling and falling into a world of unforgivable sin...she talks on about when her "Father" found out and chose to UP THE FAMILY and move them across the country in an Amish setting and she says "WE LOOKED NORMAL AGAIN...we appeared to be a normal-religious family" (may not be exact words, but close) but she says that even after all this, there was NOT any affection showed in our home???????...Is she saying the Mom and Dad never got along and talked...or did they choose to distance themselves away from the kids and maybe just offer a roof, food and some necessities???.....There is a whole story somewhere in those few sentences, this child I feel is still troubled today and I feel she was trying to give the world a hint, a clue as to what type of home she grew up in even until her teen years...What is she trying to tell us???
    I know the father died in 2002 on a train trip from Maine to California of a thyroid disease....Maybe me just trying to be nosey, but you can find absolutely -0- on the web of this man, only his date of death and I did find a short obit at one msm link at one time or the other.....and this article has always puzzled me.............Some say that IK's father bought him the old run down home in Constable N.Y.....but on another site I read lately they think perhaps this might have been IK's Father's brother???? or maybe someone in the KEYES side of the family...Find it very odd that both were names Israel
    Would love to hear others opinion.....Do you think this might have been a Big Issue in the IK family and perhaps started his own sick demented way of life???

    http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/a...#axzz30KSe6szO

    http://jmgardner.files.wordpress.com...-testimony.pdf


    ================================================== =====
    BBM Do you have a link for that info about his father's death and his obit? I didn't find that and I would love to have that info for my files- I would really appreciate the links.

    I also have taken apart Autumnrose's testimony (I call it a "manifesto" because of Prosecutor Martinez ).
    She gives a lot of clues to her family life and how it was back then. I feel the family was very rigid in how they treated their children with all the religious hell, brimstone, and damnation baloney they spewed about God. Scary as all **** for children and very wrong, IMO, to insist that hell is waiting for them around every turn. if they didn't bend to their rules/thoughts in how they should live their lives. And pair that with being emotionally neglected/distant and it becomes a bad mix for a family. Children need affection to grow and thrive. I do remember something about IK's mother, Heidi, speaking to a person in a murder investigation on a pastor and always talking about religious things to them. Strange family, IMO. But the rest of IK's siblings, even tho' there isn't anything about them, seem to have grown without any criminal behavior that I have found- hard to find anything about them anyway.

    So you think this James Keyes in that article could be a relative of IK's father, John Jeffreys Keyes? I noticed that the family in Montana had lived ? in Wa. with the statement about "father-in-law's funeral some place in Washington," Arnold said."- but that was that IK's girlfriends FIL, so maybe not. Maybe related to IK's father somehow??? Interesting. I don't think this had too much to do with Ik's upbringing when he was young, IMO, as this happened in 2008 and IK was 30 years old by then. After some research:

    A bizarre and tragic coincidence: there are two Israel Keyes
    http://pugetsoundblogs.com/kitsap-cr...#axzz30PbS2hh7

    BTW- a James Keyes died in Somers, Montana in 2010:

    James Robert Keyes
    October 12, 1947 - March 25, 2010
    Somers, Montana
    http://www.tributes.com/show/James-Robert-Keyes-8822

    Anyway- more mysteries to unearth. I could spend hours on IK and lose myself in his story.

    Last edited by YESorNO; 04-30-2014 at 06:44 PM.
    ----------------------

    Travis Alexander (1977-2008)

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba (RIP sweet baby)
    -------------------------
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. - Ian MacLaren

    The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it - Flannery O'connor

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by YESorNO View Post
    BBM Do you have a link for that info about his father's death and his obit? I didn't find that and I would love to have that info for my files- I would really appreciate the links.

    I also have taken apart Autumnrose's testimony (I call it a "manifesto" because of Prosecutor Martinez ).
    She gives a lot of clues to her family life and how it was back then. I feel the family was very rigid in how they treated their children with all the religious hell, brimstone, and damnation baloney they spewed about God. Scary as all **** for children and very wrong, IMO, to insist that hell is waiting for them around every turn. if they didn't bend to their rules/thoughts in how they should live their lives. And pair that with being emotionally neglected/distant and it becomes a bad mix for a family. Children need affection to grow and thrive. I do remember something about IK's mother, Heidi, speaking to a person in a murder investigation on a pastor and always talking about religious things to them. Strange family, IMO. But the rest of IK's siblings, even tho' there isn't anything about them, seem to have grown without any criminal behavior that I have found- hard to find anything about them anyway.

    So you think this James Keyes in that article could be a relative of IK's father, John Jeffreys Keyes? I noticed that the family in Montana had lived ? in Wa. with the statement about "father-in-law's funeral some place in Washington," Arnold said."- but that was that IK's girlfriends FIL, so maybe not. Maybe related to IK's father somehow??? Interesting. I don't think this had too much to do with Ik's upbringing when he was young, IMO, as this happened in 2008 and IK was 30 years old by then. After some research:

    A bizarre and tragic coincidence: there are two Israel Keyes
    http://pugetsoundblogs.com/kitsap-cr...#axzz30PbS2hh7

    BTW- a James Keyes died in Somers, Montana in 2010:

    James Robert Keyes
    October 12, 1947 - March 25, 2010
    Somers, Montana
    http://www.tributes.com/show/James-Robert-Keyes-8822

    Anyway- more mysteries to unearth. I could spend hours on IK and lose myself in his story.

    Well unfortunately I cannot link the links you are searching for here, As I stated I can find absolutely nothing more on his parents, I know when they moved to Maine, they then started or got into the Maple Syrup business, I'm assuming these were quiet folks (as we say in the South) that mostly kept to themselves

    http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/2013...ael-keyes.html

    I know you have probably seen the above about 1,000 times, but I still feel something in this family "STANK" bigtime.....The grandfather gave him a revolver at age 14??????????????....I would have never let a child accept a revolver gun at age 14, some may disagree but I would NEVER let this gift be accepted....The reason I get so confused sometimes is on a day I'm reading and searching you can run upon a victim that if you didn't look at the date they died, you would think IK was back on the job, but then you know it could have never been him because it may have been 20 or 30 years ago, but almost identical to what we now know about IK

    I only know that when this article 1st came to some people's attention, they had the resources to go and ask the register of deeds (I believe it was) who purchased this land because many were discussing how IK got the money at around the age of 19 to purchase it.....I only know that the man stated it was an older gentleman and not IK, so I am just assuming in my small mind all of this was dismissed as IK Father buying this land for his son, but on another site they are having a lot of discussion on WHY this particular property, Was it already in the Keyes family and etc. but not allowed to post that here and I only lurk there and read, but some do believe that perhaps the man mentioned in the article might be the brother of IK Father....but that is all my lurking and putting my nose in other places...lol

    I can understand where you are coming from that the family taught Hell and the Devil way too much in this home....believe me I truly know about all this and I have to say my home was not that strict but I was raised in a home that had a lot of the same beliefs, Yet it never made me an atheists, serial killer, nor have I ever been arrested for any crime.....When I grew up I started searching out my own beliefs and a church I wanted to attend just because it suited my beliefs not my parents....I still say and will always believe something in that home was just not kosher....I go back once again to Autumn Rose's testimony when she said "We looked normal again, it eased the Mother's and Fathers tensions, but not to the point they submitted to each other????....I'm certainly not blaming the Mother nor the Father, but trouble brewed I feel in the years of raising children there, 1st they proclaimed Mormon Religion, then moved to an Amish Community and it was said very early on in Wash. State, the Keyes and Kehoe Family's were seen going to that weird church there that teaches Racism, Hate and etc....No wonder IK was messed up and proclaimed atheism but again all this is my inside thinking of IK



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