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View Poll Results: Do you think the prosecutor proved the case?

Voters
250. You may not vote on this poll
  • The case for murder was demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt

    76 30.40%
  • Murder directus -OP fired shots knowing it was RS and intended to kill her

    143 57.20%
  • Murder eventualis- OP believed it was a burglar, foresaw he would kill by shooting

    19 7.60%
  • The case for culpable homicide was proven

    33 13.20%
  • There are many holes in the case – too many unanswered questions

    20 8.00%
  • Prosecutor’s evidence and witness testimony verify OP’s version

    3 1.20%
  • The firearm charges were substantiated

    38 15.20%
  • None of the above

    1 0.40%
Multiple Choice Poll.

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Results 16 to 30 of 159
  1. #16
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    Yes, state has proved its case.

    1. State has proved that OP killed RS because he admitted to killing her.
    2. State has proved intent because OP fired 4 shots.
    3. Defense has not proved self defense argument because OP himself has rejected this self defense argument.
    4. Defense has not proved accidental argument because OP actively shot four times and guns do not fire by itself.
    5. OP has proven to himself that he is a liar.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wb180 View Post
    Yes, state has proved its case.

    1. State has proved that OP killed RS because he admitted to killing her.
    2. State has proved intent because OP fired 4 shots.
    3. Defense has not proved self defense argument because OP himself has rejected this self defense argument.
    4. Defense has not proved accidental argument because OP actively shot four times and guns do not fire by itself.
    5. OP has proven to himself that he is a liar.
    Oh yes they do

  3. #18
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    Yes, I think the prosecution proved their case

    1. Ear witness testimony
    2. OP's lies during his tesiphony
    3. OP calling friends instead of emergency services
    4. OP has anger issues and is trigger happy
    5. The missing 5th phone.

    Murder, dolus directus

    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.



    Anxiety is the cousin visiting from out of town that depression felt obligated to bring to the party.

  4. #19
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    Oscar Pistorius Clashes With Prosecutor Over Picture Of Reeva Steenkamp - Trial Day 19 - YouTube

    I do not think that the defense has proven PM.


    1) (15:54) “The accident was that I discharged my firearm in the belief that an intruder was coming out to attack me I never intended to shoot anyone Mi’Lady I got a fright from a noise I heard inside the toilet, I perceived it to be somebody coming out to attack me that is what I believed.”


    2) “Mi’Lady as I said I wasn’t meaning to shoot anyone, I went to the bathroom so I could put myself between what I perceived was danger and Reeva, to approach in the time that I did, I didn’t have much time to think..” “Mi’Lady I shot because I at that point that split moment I believed somebody was coming out to attack me.” It is here that I think Nel feels his case slipping away and begins to try to get Oscar to admit to culpable homicide which Oscar does not do. IMO Oscar either through honesty or brilliance beat Nel at his own game in this exchange.




    3) Oscar has stuck to the core of his original version of that morning.


    4) Oscar opened wide his front door, after he had been screaming, after the gunshots, and I think it bends the realms of logic to think he did so with the intentions of toting Reeva’s body off somewhere after the loudness of events that just happened.



    5) Oscar did admit to killing Reeva,(7:17) his exact words were “My mistake was that I took Reeva’s life Mi’ lady”. Nel demanded that Oscar not only state that he mistakenly took Reeva’s life but Nel insisted “You killed her you shot and killed her won’t you take responsibility for that.” To which Oscar responded “I did Mi’Lady”.


    6) Nell can and did outwit Oscar at points, he twisted Oscar’s words and I don’t believe that will be lost on Mi’lady, one instance of this is when Nel chastised Oscar when Oscar admitted that he was trying to understand the implications of his own answers to Nel’s questions. IMO Oscar said exactly what he meant, Oscar is horrendously sorry that he killed Reeva, but it was unintentional and Oscar poorly but correctly stated that Nel was playing semantics in order to get Oscar to admit premeditated murder.


    7) The scream testimonies are inconclusive.


    8) I think the video (8:30) showing Oscar firing guns and talking about a Zombie brain will be seen as the parlor stunt that it was and that Oscar was very accurate in his assessment in saying that it carried no relevance.


    9) Nel’s nonsense of saying that Oscar was getting emotional when it was convenient for him was in stark opposition to the recorded history of the trial. More importantly was the arrow shot across the bow by Judge Masipa when she said “It’s fine, he can be emotional, he has been emotional, I don’t think you can ask him why, now, he has been emotional throughout.”


    10) Oscar sounds like a woman when he gets emotional; there is no reason to think if the morning unfolded on a similar fashion in which he has told it did, to think that his screaming could not have easily been mistaken for a screaming woman.


    11) The difference between whisper and low tone is a nonissue.


    12) The scene was contaminated by poor police work which makes the grand photographic evidence, of Oscar’s story being impossible because of what the photographs show, a moot point.


    I think Masipa has shown sound judgment in the past and will continue to do so in this case, I will respect her decision. I also think that the assessors, one a former defense attorney and one a newly minted academic are going to be Defense friendly.




    I believe Nel is more interested in his own ego than getting to the facts.


    That Oscar has character issues and some histrionic traits does not make him a cold blooded killer. Nor IMO has the evidence proven him such so far. I think his remorse and emotion is for both Reeva and himself.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-17-2015 at 02:26 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmelita View Post
    Oscar Pistorius Clashes With Prosecutor Over Picture Of Reeva Steenkamp - Trial Day 19 - YouTube

    I do not think that the defense has proven PM.


    1) (15:54) “The accident was that I discharged my firearm in the belief that an intruder was coming out to attack me I never intended to shoot anyone Mi’Lady I got a fright from a noise I heard inside the toilet, I perceived it to be somebody coming out to attack me that is what I believed.”


    2) “Mi’Lady as I said I wasn’t meaning to shoot anyone, I went to the bathroom so I could put myself between what I perceived was danger and Reeva, to approach in the time that I did, I didn’t have much time to think..” “Mi’Lady I shot because I at that point that split moment I believed somebody was coming out to attack me.” It is here that I think Nel feels his case slipping away and begins to try to get Oscar to admit to culpable homicide which Oscar does not do. IMO Oscar either through honesty or brilliance beat Nel at his own game in this exchange.




    3) Oscar has stuck to the core of his original version of that morning.


    4) Oscar opened wide his front door, after he had been screaming, after the gunshots, and I think it bends the realms of logic to think he did so with the intentions of toting Reeva’s body off somewhere after the loudness of events that just happened.



    5) Oscar did admit to killing Reeva,(7:17) his exact words were “My mistake was that I took Reeva’s life Mi’ lady”. Nel demanded that Oscar not only state that he mistakenly took Reeva’s life but Nel insisted “You killed her you shot and killed her won’t you take responsibility for that.” To which Oscar responded “I did Mi’Lady”.


    6) Nell can and did outwit Oscar at points, he twisted Oscar’s words and I don’t believe that will be lost on Mi’lady, one instance of this is when Nel chastised Oscar when Oscar admitted that he was trying to understand the implications of his own answers to Nel’s questions. IMO Oscar said exactly what he meant, Oscar is horrendously sorry that he killed Reeva, but it was unintentional and Oscar poorly but correctly stated that Nel was playing semantics in order to get Oscar to admit premeditated murder.


    7) The scream testimonies are inconclusive.


    8) I think the video (8:30) showing Oscar firing guns and talking about a Zombie brain will be seen as the parlor stunt that it was and that Oscar was very accurate in his assessment in saying that it carried no relevance.


    9) Nel’s nonsense of saying that Oscar was getting emotional when it was convenient for him was in stark opposition to the recorded history of the trial. More importantly was the arrow shot across the bow by Judge Masipa when she said “It’s fine, he can be emotional, he has been emotional, I don’t think you can ask him why, now, he has been emotional throughout.”


    10) Oscar sounds like a woman when he gets emotional; there is no reason to think if the morning unfolded on a similar fashion in which he has told it did, to think that his screaming could not have easily been mistaken for a screaming woman.


    11) The difference between whisper and low tone is a nonissue.


    12) The scene was contaminated by poor police work which makes the grand photographic evidence, of Oscar’s story being impossible because of what the photographs show, a moot point.


    I think Masipa has shown sound judgment in the past and will continue to do so in this case, I will respect her decision. I also think that the assessors, one a former defense attorney and one a newly minted academic are going to be Defense friendly.




    I believe Nel is more interested in his own ego than getting to the facts.


    That Oscar has character issues and some histrionic traits does not make him a cold blooded killer. Nor IMO has the evidence proven him such so far. I think his remorse and emotion is for both Reeva and himself.
    Regarding #10:

    I listened to OP's testimony and at no time did I think he sounded like a woman but that's just my opinion. Also, his ex-grirlfriend, ST, testified that she had heard OP screaming on occassion, at her and at other people, and she never thought he ever sounded like a woman. Dr. Stipp also testified that he heard a man yell help help help from the balcony that night---as we know, that was OP.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmelita View Post
    Carmelita, did you mean the prosecution? ?
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.



    Anxiety is the cousin visiting from out of town that depression felt obligated to bring to the party.

  7. #22
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    1. Body (homicide)
    2. Murder weapon with hollow tip ammunition (means)
    3. Accused admitted firing the weapon (opportunity)
    4. Ear witness testimony of screams and arguments during homicide (motive)
    5. Texts indicating recent jealousies and arguments in day prior to homicide (motive)

  8. #23
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    1. Oscar lied to the police on the day. He lawyers up instantly , and he didn't call the police that morning.

    2. Mrs VD Mewre heard arguing .. all was not well in that house that night and right into the early morning, resulting in Reeva's death... I dismiss the intruder story, mainly because of Mrs VD Mewre's testimony.. what intruder is going to choose a household where the folks are arguing into the early hours of the morning??

    3. Oscar lied off the top of his head to Dr Stipp that morning.. he was trying out his story. I don't think Dr Stipp bought it.

    4. The gunshots. they are aimed. he was following her screaming as he shot.

    5. He moved her body.. I don't believe Net care told him to. I will never believe that until the director of Net care states it under oath. its too unbelievable . it requires me to suspend whatever logic and rationale I possesses and enter into Oscar world.. no thanks.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmelita View Post
    Oscar Pistorius Clashes With Prosecutor Over Picture Of Reeva Steenkamp - Trial Day 19 - YouTube

    I do not think that the defense has proven PM.


    1) (15:54) “The accident was that I discharged my firearm in the belief that an intruder was coming out to attack me I never intended to shoot anyone Mi’Lady I got a fright from a noise I heard inside the toilet, I perceived it to be somebody coming out to attack me that is what I believed.”


    2) “Mi’Lady as I said I wasn’t meaning to shoot anyone, I went to the bathroom so I could put myself between what I perceived was danger and Reeva, to approach in the time that I did, I didn’t have much time to think..” “Mi’Lady I shot because I at that point that split moment I believed somebody was coming out to attack me.” It is here that I think Nel feels his case slipping away and begins to try to get Oscar to admit to culpable homicide which Oscar does not do. IMO Oscar either through honesty or brilliance beat Nel at his own game in this exchange.




    3) Oscar has stuck to the core of his original version of that morning.


    4) Oscar opened wide his front door, after he had been screaming, after the gunshots, and I think it bends the realms of logic to think he did so with the intentions of toting Reeva’s body off somewhere after the loudness of events that just happened.



    5) Oscar did admit to killing Reeva,(7:17) his exact words were “My mistake was that I took Reeva’s life Mi’ lady”. Nel demanded that Oscar not only state that he mistakenly took Reeva’s life but Nel insisted “You killed her you shot and killed her won’t you take responsibility for that.” To which Oscar responded “I did Mi’Lady”.


    6) Nell can and did outwit Oscar at points, he twisted Oscar’s words and I don’t believe that will be lost on Mi’lady, one instance of this is when Nel chastised Oscar when Oscar admitted that he was trying to understand the implications of his own answers to Nel’s questions. IMO Oscar said exactly what he meant, Oscar is horrendously sorry that he killed Reeva, but it was unintentional and Oscar poorly but correctly stated that Nel was playing semantics in order to get Oscar to admit premeditated murder.


    7) The scream testimonies are inconclusive.


    8) I think the video (8:30) showing Oscar firing guns and talking about a Zombie brain will be seen as the parlor stunt that it was and that Oscar was very accurate in his assessment in saying that it carried no relevance.


    9) Nel’s nonsense of saying that Oscar was getting emotional when it was convenient for him was in stark opposition to the recorded history of the trial. More importantly was the arrow shot across the bow by Judge Masipa when she said “It’s fine, he can be emotional, he has been emotional, I don’t think you can ask him why, now, he has been emotional throughout.”


    10) Oscar sounds like a woman when he gets emotional; there is no reason to think if the morning unfolded on a similar fashion in which he has told it did, to think that his screaming could not have easily been mistaken for a screaming woman.


    11) The difference between whisper and low tone is a nonissue.


    12) The scene was contaminated by poor police work which makes the grand photographic evidence, of Oscar’s story being impossible because of what the photographs show, a moot point.


    I think Masipa has shown sound judgment in the past and will continue to do so in this case, I will respect her decision. I also think that the assessors, one a former defense attorney and one a newly minted academic are going to be Defense friendly.




    I believe Nel is more interested in his own ego than getting to the facts.


    That Oscar has character issues and some histrionic traits does not make him a cold blooded killer. Nor IMO has the evidence proven him such so far. I think his remorse and emotion is for both Reeva and himself.
    BBM

    I disagree.. I think the defence has indeed proven calculated murder.. so has the prosecution. its like a double whammy for Oscar.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmelita View Post
    Oscar Pistorius Clashes With Prosecutor Over Picture Of Reeva Steenkamp - Trial Day 19 - YouTube

    I do not think that the defense has proven PM.


    1) (15:54) “The accident was that I discharged my firearm in the belief that an intruder was coming out to attack me I never intended to shoot anyone Mi’Lady I got a fright from a noise I heard inside the toilet, I perceived it to be somebody coming out to attack me that is what I believed.”


    2) “Mi’Lady as I said I wasn’t meaning to shoot anyone, I went to the bathroom so I could put myself between what I perceived was danger and Reeva, to approach in the time that I did, I didn’t have much time to think..” “Mi’Lady I shot because I at that point that split moment I believed somebody was coming out to attack me.” It is here that I think Nel feels his case slipping away and begins to try to get Oscar to admit to culpable homicide which Oscar does not do. IMO Oscar either through honesty or brilliance beat Nel at his own game in this exchange.




    3) Oscar has stuck to the core of his original version of that morning.


    4) Oscar opened wide his front door, after he had been screaming, after the gunshots, and I think it bends the realms of logic to think he did so with the intentions of toting Reeva’s body off somewhere after the loudness of events that just happened.



    5) Oscar did admit to killing Reeva,(7:17) his exact words were “My mistake was that I took Reeva’s life Mi’ lady”. Nel demanded that Oscar not only state that he mistakenly took Reeva’s life but Nel insisted “You killed her you shot and killed her won’t you take responsibility for that.” To which Oscar responded “I did Mi’Lady”.


    6) Nell can and did outwit Oscar at points, he twisted Oscar’s words and I don’t believe that will be lost on Mi’lady, one instance of this is when Nel chastised Oscar when Oscar admitted that he was trying to understand the implications of his own answers to Nel’s questions. IMO Oscar said exactly what he meant, Oscar is horrendously sorry that he killed Reeva, but it was unintentional and Oscar poorly but correctly stated that Nel was playing semantics in order to get Oscar to admit premeditated murder.


    7) The scream testimonies are inconclusive.


    8) I think the video (8:30) showing Oscar firing guns and talking about a Zombie brain will be seen as the parlor stunt that it was and that Oscar was very accurate in his assessment in saying that it carried no relevance.


    9) Nel’s nonsense of saying that Oscar was getting emotional when it was convenient for him was in stark opposition to the recorded history of the trial. More importantly was the arrow shot across the bow by Judge Masipa when she said “It’s fine, he can be emotional, he has been emotional, I don’t think you can ask him why, now, he has been emotional throughout.”


    10) Oscar sounds like a woman when he gets emotional; there is no reason to think if the morning unfolded on a similar fashion in which he has told it did, to think that his screaming could not have easily been mistaken for a screaming woman.


    11) The difference between whisper and low tone is a nonissue.


    12) The scene was contaminated by poor police work which makes the grand photographic evidence, of Oscar’s story being impossible because of what the photographs show, a moot point.


    I think Masipa has shown sound judgment in the past and will continue to do so in this case, I will respect her decision. I also think that the assessors, one a former defense attorney and one a newly minted academic are going to be Defense friendly.




    I believe Nel is more interested in his own ego than getting to the facts.


    That Oscar has character issues and some histrionic traits does not make him a cold blooded killer. Nor IMO has the evidence proven him such so far. I think his remorse and emotion is for both Reeva and himself.
    Oscar has stuck to the core of his story?, really?,, if he is innocent then why not tell the full story that night to the police?, or even at the bail hearing 4 day's later?, see to me it seem''s like the the defence have thought- oh we better change that bit about being on the balcony because it's obvious that when he came back in he would have had a clear view of the bed.
    Why does he's story appear to be tailored?, answer is because it very clearly is tailored, double tap eh no actually that Mangena is rather good and clearly know's his stuff so it definitely wasn't a double tap m'lady, how does someone who fired the gun go from double tap to not a double tap, does that not set alarm bell's ringing?

    All of the witness's testified with total certainty that they heard a woman screaming, a woman died and a man killed her how does that make the scream's inconclusive?.

    The first set of photo's were of the untouched scene, so there will be no problem with those photo's.

    Oscar opening his front door proves nothing about his intention's?, what else could he have done?.


  11. #26
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    this is a case for the defense to really prove there case because we have a murdered woman shot 4 times and a man who shot her...
    Someone is responsible for reevas death/ murder.. Sometimes the defense case is so weak they have to go the extra mile to convince the judge and reevas family of not guilty... So far they have failed

  12. #27
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    I have never stated that Oscar is innocent, that is not the topic of this thread. It is a question as to what the prosecution has proven up to this point. I offered my viewpoint which is different from most of the people here. I am looking as the prosecution’s case, Oscar’s defense and the perimeters and latitude of a prima facie case, reasonable doubt, the possible verdicts and the burden of proof that both sides carry.

    Here is an illustration in absurdity on how one can find defect in everyone and their statements if it is defect that you presume to find.

    1) Nell cannot remember that it is Reeva who was shot. Nel: And one hit someone.

    2) Nel cannot remember that it was 3 bullets (possibly 4) that struck someone. Nel: And one hit someone.

    3) Nel cannot remember that Oscar did admit to killing Reeva. “My mistake was that I took Reeva’s life Mi’ lady”.

    4) Nel said Oscar is only emotional when it suits him, the judge politely admonished Nel for this untruth. “It’s fine, he can be emotional, he has been emotional, I don’t think you can ask him why, now, he has been emotional throughout.”

    5) Nel purposefully left off the end of Oscar’s “Zombie Brain” comment to try and make a nefarious correlation to Oscar’s shooting Reeva in the head.

    Can we surmise from this that Nel is a liar and if so what does Nel being a liar tell us about his ability to be an ethical prosecutor?


    Has anyone seen “Fractured” with Anthony Hopkins, every egg is imperfect; you just need a candle and an eye willing to find the imperfection. Now just imagine if you knew the egg was a bad egg even before you started to look for the fracture? Just a little food for thought.


    It is not lost on me that an innocent woman was shot down and that her life was robbed from her, her future was bright and her death is a terrible tragedy and far more tragic to those who love her, those who wake up every morning bearing her loss. She will never experience the joy of bearing a child, never use her law degree, she will never again feel the warmth of sun on her face, swim in cool water or feel the embrace of a lover. Life is beautiful and that was undeniably robbed of her. Do not assume that I am unaware of the horrific loss of Reeva's life, I know more than you may assume about loss.


    I am looking at this though the eyes of objectivity which is what will be required of the judge and her assessors.


    Again I have never said I think Oscar is innocent, but IMO the prosecution has not proven premeditated murder. I think depending on the judge’s interpretation and application of SA law, her assessors influence, and her personal impression of Oscar, that a culpable homicide verdict could reasonably and logically be in the works. But that is sheer speculation based on what I have seen and read and my interpretation of the evidence so far. The defense still has 12 witnesses to come to the box.
    Last edited by Carmelita; 04-28-2014 at 11:26 AM.

  13. #28
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    Why does the poll total well over 100%?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmelita View Post

    Again I have never said I think Oscar is innocent, but IMO the prosecution has not proven premeditated murder.
    Oscar's BA and all but his latest version in which he said his intent wasn't to shoot were confessions to premeditated murder.

    According to OP...

    Fact: He walked to get a gun.
    Fact: He pursued the victim.
    Fact: He ordered the victim to leave.
    Fact: Victim retreated into the toilet.
    Fact: The victim did NOT begin to exit the toilet, the door was locked.
    Fact: He shot 4 times at the victim, killing the victim with a final head shot.

    If that's not premeditated murder, what is it?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastasya View Post
    Oscar's BA and all but his latest version in which he said his intent wasn't to shoot were confessions to premeditated murder.

    According to OP...

    Fact: He walked to get a gun.
    Fact: He pursued the victim.
    Fact: He ordered the victim to leave.
    Fact: Victim retreated into the toilet.
    Fact: The victim did NOT begin to exit the toilet, the door was locked.
    Fact: He shot 4 times at the victim, killing the victim with a final head shot.

    If that's not premeditated murder, what is it?
    Getting his gun for protection is not evidence of PM.

    He wasn't in his mind"pursuing a victim, he was placing himself between the intruder (a danger) and Reeva.

    He did scream at who he claims he perceived to be an intruder to get out of his house.

    According to Oscar, the toilet was locked from the inside (something he did not know until after the shooting), Oscar perceived the noise in the toilet as someone coming out to attack him, in that "split second" Oscar thought he was defending himself and Reeva against an intruder.

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