Financial Insanity (not just embezzlement)

...Does anyone else think that any of this is odd...irresponsible...or??

1. How can you be on public assistance...welfare, Medicaid, WIC, Section 8 housing or whatever, and own God knows how many electronic toys, 3 computers, 2 VX's (UNBELIEVABLE), cars (didn't he have a motorcycle too?), a ton of expensive automotive and other accessories, expensive clothes...are these not reported as ASSETS when you fill out the aid forms....doesn't someone check on this?? I drive a used truck, my husband drives an ANCIENT truck, and my husband is an engineer for God's sake...we have no "state of the art" electronics - meaning our computers are not new...I bought hubby a PDA AT A GARAGE SALE..., and we do not have a TV in the living room...

2. How can you with good conscience accept financial and food assistance from your church, if you own all of this material crap that you could sell to get money for food things for the baby, etc.

3. All of this stuff must have been on credit; there is no way these people could have made the payments on any of this, along with rent, etc. Who would give high credit lines for all of this stuff to someone like Raven?

NCBanker - help me out with my estimates here, please:

Edited to say that I am asking for your help because of your financial expertise, and because you live in the area...I am a Northerner...some things are more expensive up here!!

Rent and utilities...had to be at least $600/month, could be as high as $900/month....car payment...$250 - 300/month, motorcycle payment another $250 - 300/month...VX payments$600/month at least (for 2 of them)...food - minimum $500/month...credit card payments for accessories, clothes, etc. - minimum $50-100/month....plus phone bill cable bill, etc.

How could they come up with this, with the type of jobs they had?

...What a nightmare; Janet must have been scared out of her mind!

Were they on welfare or any of those programs?

...don't know which programs...in addition, they were getting church assistance, and assistance from their landord who lowered their rent, I believe, and/or gave them a short "grace" period...

I'd say you're pretty close - just remember to include insurance, which is probably $130 per month, broadband internet - $50, and tithing to the Church (if they paid it) is 10% of your GROSS income. I'd say they were cash strapped, but I could be wrong.

cappuccina said:

...don't know which programs...in addition, they were getting church assistance, and assistance from their landord who lowered their rent, I believe, and/or gave them a short "grace" period...

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They would have never qualified for those programs with all of the stuff they have. Cars alone would put them over the edge on qualifying, not to mention that they were both employed.

:laugh:

NCBanker said:

I'd say they were cash strapped.

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That may be the understatement of the year!

...be on WIC to get nutritious food for your child, as well as on some quasi-Meicaid programs - like Birth-to-Three, where you get basic medical care while you are pregnant and for the child until s/he is three years of age...

They posisbly could have qualified for these types of prgrams if their health insurance were lacking or non-existant...I could even understand this...

However, the housing assistance they received from their landlord, and if they received other welfare benefits was BECAUSE OF RAVEN'S MATERIALISTIC OBSESSIONS, in contrast with families like my sons' good friend...the family with 4 kids (one disabled), who rents their house...everything is on the house is falling apart - yet it's cozty and speaks of well-loved children everywhere, the kids are always clean and well-fed, and the parents scrape together money they don't have for musical instruments, sports, music and dance lessons and the like...ALL FOR THEIR KIDS...

In my job I see people on state assistance with all kinds of expensive electronic toys, etc. that I don't have and can't afford. It just doesn't bother some people.

As far as getting the credit, perhaps those granting the credit were charmed by Raven?

One observation, having lived in the area for a number of years, and knowing quite a few folks who invest in real estate, etc., I would be really, really surprised if that house rented for less than $1000/month. Shocked actually. I would GUESS somewhere between $1000-1500, but again, that's a guess on my part.

Does someone have information that they were using any federal programs to get by (ie, WIC, Medicaid, FoodStamps, etc)?

My opinion only, I think that even if they would have needed it and would have qualified for it, Raven wouldn't have used them. Too much of a blow to the ego.

...based on the fact that housing is generally less down South. However, since you live there, and since it sounds like they were renting in a nicer area, (probably where most of the homes were owned), then paying over $1000/mo. for rent only adds to the insanity, especially considering that they could have owned and had mortgage payment for LESS than that...

Jennifred...I hear what you're saying...The other way it could have gone is that either Janet applied for WIC/Birth-to-Three for Kaiden's and her own sake (since these are MATERNAL-CHILD health/welfare benefits, she could have applied without Raven...could have been on them without him even knowing ,if she was careful to shop for the WIC food when she was by herself...The Birth-to-Three program would be no problem, because she would just have to present a special card at her OB visits, or at Kaiden's pediatric visits,; I'm sure Raven was not along for those visits very often...I'm a stay-at-home mom; my husband has only had to take the kids to the doctor twice in 12 years!) I could see her being scared, especially when he kept changing jobs and then got arrested for the embezzlement, and applying just to know that her child would be safe...Also, if you are in "in the system" for WIC/BT3 benefits, this opens up other doors, like HeadStart daycare, etc. She could have done this knowing that she was going to leave him, and making sure that her child got coverage...She would have qualified for a lot more than WIC/BT3 if she had left him, also) Note that I could also see Raven "gaming the system" and applying for and taking whatever he could (Mr. Entitlement), and just not telling anyone...

Jenifred said:

Does someone have information that they were using any federal programs to get by (ie, WIC, Medicaid, FoodStamps, etc)?

My opinion only, I think that even if they would have needed it and would have qualified for it, Raven wouldn't have used them. Too much of a blow to the ego.

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Did the search warrant list food stamps as just an item that could be seized (you know, all the numbers they left ... 25 means this, 26 means this.... etc.)
or was it listed as something that was taken?
I can't remember... I know you guys were trying to figure out the silver currency and someone listed food stamps as a choice for something seized??

cappuccina said:

How could they come up with this, with the type of jobs they had?

...What a nightmare; Janet must have been scared out of her mind!

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Does anybody know Raven's and Janet's approximately salaries while they worked at Eurosport? It would be interesting to see if they were able to support this lifestyle (on credit, of course) until he was fired and she had to quit!

ewwwinteresting said:

Does anybody know Raven's and Janet's approximately salaries while they worked at Eurosport? It would be interesting to see if they were able to support this lifestyle (on credit, of course) until he was fired and she had to quit!

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I'm quoting myself here.....wondering if anybody knew what salary their positions would have paid?

ewwwinteresting said:

Does anybody know Raven's and Janet's approximately salaries while they worked at Eurosport? It would be interesting to see if they were able to support this lifestyle (on credit, of course) until he was fired and she had to quit!

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.........i had given him the benefit of the doubt...........as he was trying to sell his ducati motorcycle ...back in jan.05.....until:

02/17/2005, 02:34 AM
NC_VX vbmenu_register("postmenu_55612", true);
Super VXer
99, Ironman VX, 1455
Chapel Hill, NC US
Member Since: Jun 2003
Posts: 200



Thanks for the bump... Yeah, the bikes got low miles and only ridden a few months out of year. I just need to unload it so thats why the low price...

As for the R1... I like the R1. They had an 03 model at the dealership brand new for 8k. I considered jumping on it but my next bike has to be a cruiser because OC Choppers got me interested and I've driven a few and I love the ride... I've got my eye on a sup'd up, stripped down Yamaha Roadstar Warrior. The thing rumbles like a harley and has the computer chip of an R1, which makes for a hellishly fast cruiser!

..................selling one....................to buy another ?...good grief.....

One other possibility to consider, as to Raven's finances since being fired from Eurosport -

Keep in mind, as evidenced by Raven's eBay account that we've discussed, "futbalrguy" became "lostmyjobsales" on January 19, 2005 - AFTER Raven was fired from Eurosport. Perhaps he still had embezzled "inventory" to get rid of, or, perhaps he changed the name just to sell things routinely on eBay....

He obviously did NOT want to be linked to the "futbalrguy" moniker any longer...and one could surmise that "lostmyjobsales" was picked to elicit, perhaps, sympathy as a seller (in the vein of, "poor me, I''ve lost my job, help me out here by buying my items"). And presumably, he planned to continue at least some sort of presence on eBay, otherwise, why bother to change anything at all...

I've looked around on eBay as best I can, but perhaps someone more savvy than me can dig around to see if Raven is perhaps still using eBay, but with some other new name entirely?? I have no idea if that is the case...just trying to think of ways that Raven could have been supporting himself, etc..

SouthEastSleuth said:

One other possibility to consider, as to Raven's finances since being fired from Eurosport -

Keep in mind, as evidenced by Raven's eBay account that we've discussed, "futbalrguy" became "lostmyjobsales" on January 19, 2005 - AFTER Raven was fired from Eurosport. Perhaps he still had embezzled "inventory" to get rid of, or, perhaps he changed the name just to sell things routinely on eBay....

He obviously did NOT want to be linked to the "futbalrguy" moniker any longer...and one could surmise that "lostmyjobsales" was picked to elicit, perhaps, sympathy as a seller (in the vein of, "poor me, I''ve lost my job, help me out here by buying my items"). And presumably, he planned to continue at least some sort of presence on eBay, otherwise, why bother to change anything at all...

I've looked around on eBay as best I can, but perhaps someone more savvy than me can dig around to see if Raven is perhaps still using eBay, but with some other new name entirely?? I have no idea if that is the case...just trying to think of ways that Raven could have been supporting himself, etc..

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or he went from ebay to pawn shops!

....i agree, i'm quite sure he is still umloading merchandise...........but no longer under any name we'd come up with...

...i'm sure g/m, JG, TOL and other ebay experts are on it....!

...we have heard that there was a 2nd connection in regard to the ebay merchandise sales............( possibly..)...i'd say that's the person we're looking for.....

SouthEastSleuth said:

One other possibility to consider, as to Raven's finances since being fired from Eurosport -

Keep in mind, as evidenced by Raven's eBay account that we've discussed, "futbalrguy" became "lostmyjobsales" on January 19, 2005 - AFTER Raven was fired from Eurosport. Perhaps he still had embezzled "inventory" to get rid of, or, perhaps he changed the name just to sell things routinely on eBay....

He obviously did NOT want to be linked to the "futbalrguy" moniker any longer...and one could surmise that "lostmyjobsales" was picked to elicit, perhaps, sympathy as a seller (in the vein of, "poor me, I''ve lost my job, help me out here by buying my items"). And presumably, he planned to continue at least some sort of presence on eBay, otherwise, why bother to change anything at all...

I've looked around on eBay as best I can, but perhaps someone more savvy than me can dig around to see if Raven is perhaps still using eBay, but with some other new name entirely?? I have no idea if that is the case...just trying to think of ways that Raven could have been supporting himself, etc..

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lauriej said:

....i agree, i'm quite sure he is still umloading merchandise...........but no longer under any name we'd come up with...

...i'm sure g/m, JG, TOL and other ebay experts are on it....!

...we have heard that there was a 2nd connection in regard to the ebay merchandise sales............( possibly..)...i'd say that's the person we're looking for.....

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Oh, like IF he used his mother to help him embezzle from his employer, he would also use her to help sell the stuff on ebay? Hmmm.....that's a possibility!