The Cuts

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beesy

beesy

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Hi, newbie here,
I too believe Darlie did it, but what bothers me is how she had the nerve to cut her throat. How did she know she wouldn't hit the caratoid artery? She doesnt strike me as having much medical knowledge. The arm, no problem, but the throat? Pictures show a small 'hesitation' cut above the deeper one on her arm. Maybe she was trying to kill herself too, then when she didnt hit the artery decided that was a bad idea? :chicken: Too ouchy! Remember I am a newbie, so don't fuss if this has been discussed a million times already:eek:
beesy
 
Interesting subject. You never hear about successful suicides from throat slashings. And when suicidals slash their wrists, they often do it the wrong way (back and forth instead of straight, toward the elbow, which is probably scarier).
 
For whatever reason she cut it, its hard to believe she didnt, the slash to her throat is not the typical way a throat is cut by another person. You've seen the pictures of the infamous "ear to ear" slashes. Hers starts up and goes down, easier for her to do than someone else. I've seen a theory which says she turned the dull part of the knife towards her neck, making it harder to slice all the way through. And of course, she grabbed a towel quickly for her freaking self. probably had it out ready to use.
 
beesy said:
Hi, newbie here,
I too believe Darlie did it, but what bothers me is how she had the nerve to cut her throat. How did she know she wouldn't hit the caratoid artery? She doesnt strike me as having much medical knowledge. The arm, no problem, but the throat? Pictures show a small 'hesitation' cut above the deeper one on her arm. Maybe she was trying to kill herself too, then when she didnt hit the artery decided that was a bad idea? :chicken: Too ouchy! Remember I am a newbie, so don't fuss if this has been discussed a million times already:eek:
beesy
Click to expand...

Darlie needed to do some serious damage to herself to make it look like she was attacked and incapacitated.

I always ask myself what would it be easier to do- hold the knife in your outstretched arms and plunge it deeply into your body whilst hoping you would miss your vital organs or else run the edge along your throat. Yeah- it makes me shudder to think about slitting your throat but would she have known her artery was that close to the surface? I doubt it personally. I certainly wouldn't have known were it not for this case. Whenever you see movies where people die from having their throats cut they are actually slashed from ear to ear with a deep open wound- nothing like running it along your skin.

I couldn't possibly imagining stabbing myself in the same way those boys were stabbed- it seems easier to run the knife along your throat than do that. Having said that cutting my own throat sounds absurd and ridiculous anyway!!
 
Dani_T said:
but would she have known her artery was that close to the surface? I doubt it personally. I certainly wouldn't have known were it not for this case.
Click to expand...

Nor would I, and I used to teach Health!

I doubt Darlie even knew there was a carotid artery in the throat. A woman who throws wet towels on her sons to stop the bleeding ;) obviously doesn't have a clue about human anatomy
 
Now that you both pointed that out, I didn't realize it was so close either. Most murder scenes show the person's head nearly cut off which makes you think the artery is much deeper. My husband thought it was also. Have you noticed the damn scar is barely noticeable now? :rolleyes:
 
To even think of having a knife anywhere around my throat makes my stomache do the roller coaster flip flop. It's insane! Because I believe Darlie to be guilty of murdering her sons, I think she is very capable of inflicting these wounds to herself, knowing help wouldn't be that far away.

The wounds inflicted on the boys were deep stabbing wounds, Darlie's were "slice" type. I think that's why she is leaning more towards the 2 other dudes did it. Law enforcement studies would tell you one person wouldn't have stabbed and sliced too.
 
beesy said:
For whatever reason she cut it, its hard to believe she didnt, the slash to her throat is not the typical way a throat is cut by another person. You've seen the pictures of the infamous "ear to ear" slashes. Hers starts up and goes down, easier for her to do than someone else. I've seen a theory which says she turned the dull part of the knife towards her neck, making it harder to slice all the way through. And of course, she grabbed a towel quickly for her freaking self. probably had it out ready to use.
Click to expand...
I don't think the dull side of the knife would even cut her. I think it is most likely that she thought she had to make it look like a left handed person or someone standing facing her had cut her. She would have been more interested in making it look like she did not do it than how the perp would have done it. With that thought in mind, I think she could have held the dull side of the blade and simply slid the knife in a one or two second movement, thinking the chain would prevent the knife from going too deep. She just lucky and missed the artery. I think she probably was surprised when she heard that it had almost been cut. I don't think she intendd to go that deep.

Also that downward angle is typical in self-inflicted neck wounds.
 
Kalypso said:
Interesting subject. You never hear about successful suicides from throat slashings. And when suicidals slash their wrists, they often do it the wrong way (back and forth instead of straight, toward the elbow, which is probably scarier).
Click to expand...
Well, they do happen. That crazy woman in Illinois last year nearly decapitated herself.
 
Dani_T said:
I couldn't possibly imagining stabbing myself in the same way those boys were stabbed- it seems easier to run the knife along your throat than do that. Having said that cutting my own throat sounds absurd and ridiculous anyway!!
Click to expand...
Didn't McDonald stab himself and injure a lung? But he was a doctor. So was the other guy I heard of who did the same thing. The only thing Darlie has in common with them though is that Darin claims to have studied first aid for 7 years. That would put him right in the middle of planning the cover up if she got it from him. In all those classes he says he took, surely there were doctors and paramedics, etc. who talked of such things. When I studied law, my teachers were lawyers, prosecutors, judges, etc. And we studied actual cases. Why wouldn't first aid classes have some similar experiences?
 
duffy said:
The wounds inflicted on the boys were deep stabbing wounds, Darlie's were "slice" type. I think that's why she is leaning more towards the 2 other dudes did it. Law enforcement studies would tell you one person wouldn't have stabbed and sliced too.
Click to expand...
Well, it is possible, Duffy, but I think what the two different types of wounds say the loudest is that there would have to be a change in motive if there is a change in method. The boys were stabbed as they were because the attacker was so motivated to make sure they died as quickly as possible. If he then turned to Darlie and made a slicing motion instead of a deep stab, whether he landed it or not, it tells me that he was not as motivated to kill her. You have to ask yourself then why would anyone want to kill children but not the mother, WHO would do such a thing? A stranger just doesn't fit into that profile.
 
thanks everybody, now I can think past the throat slice and get on with my original thought that Darlie did it.
You're right Goody, the slice is very atypical of another person doing it. Darin even said something stupid about how the killer would have had to go around her *advertiser censored* to reach her neck, if she were laying down as she "guessed " she was. Her 38DD breasts as he reportedly told anyone who'd listen at the ER that night. :loser:
I'm sure she was surprised to hear she nearly cut the artery, but then what a windfall for her. Strangers do not target children unless its for sexual reasons. Then, as most of you know, they are kidnapped, not murdered in their sleep.
 
Goody said:
Didn't McDonald stab himself and injure a lung? But he was a doctor.
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Ah yes, the good Dr. My 1st true crime obession. Yes, he put an ice pick thru his chest which deflated his right lung by 40%. There were blood droplets in the bathroom sink which were his. Its very rare, but the entire family had different blood types, so even before DNA they were able to tell it was his blood. There were also a couple of droplets near the kitchen sink where he kept his surgical gloves. He most likely put those on to write PIG on the head board.
Nobody would overkill 3(4 since Colette was prg) children and a woman, yet leave an adult male alive. He was not shot, stabbed several times, or choked which might have made the "killers" think he was dead. That'd be different. As with Darlie's case, his wounds were very different than the rest of the family's. He claimed to have several other boo-boo's :boohoo: which can easily be explained. There was a fight to the death that night, but not between him and 3 strangers, between him and his wife, his High School sweetheart.
It's also interesting to note that Macdonald was taking Rx diet pills which is basically legal speed. He'd been working several nights in a row and had kept the kids that evening while Colette took a college class.
Darlie was also taking Rx diet pills, intersting eh?

There are some gruesome crime scene/autopsy pix of Colette and the girls. Just google image Colette Macdonald and you'll find them.
 
Goody said:
Didn't McDonald stab himself and injure a lung? But he was a doctor. So was the other guy I heard of who did the same thing.
Click to expand...
MacDonald didn't actually stab himself. He cut himself a little bit, with surgical precision. His lung bubbled a little air. He was never hurt seriously. Who was the other guy you mentioned?

Regarding Darlie's bruised arms, those looked so familiar to me. I got exactly that kind of blood drainage from gravity after an automobile accident. She didn't fight off any intruder(s).
 
beesy said:
Ah yes, the good Dr. My 1st true crime obession. Yes, he put an ice pick thru his chest which deflated his right lung by 40%.
Click to expand...
Good posts, beesy! Looks like we posted about Mac at the same time. You know more details than I. So the puncture to his lung was with the ice pick, not a cut/slice, then?
 
Yes, it was a very simple puncture, not a slice or cut. To make it seem as if Colette and the girls were attacked by more than one person, he used 3 different weapons, a 2x4(in the bedroom for shelving), the ice pick and a knife. He seemed to think this made his story more believable, but again, nobody would use different weapons on helpless victims, yet use an ice pick only on a Green Beret. He had some bruises, but as I said before, there was a fight that night. Colette was a grown woman and from her wounds appears to have fought hard for her life and those of her children. In fact, most likely she could have gotten away if she'd not gone into the smaller girl's room to save her. There was an outside door right off the master bedroom. He knocked her out and when she came to, instead of running out that door, she ran to Kristie's room. Of course, as a mother too, that'd be my 1st instinct, but in hindsight, if she'd have run outside, she may have been able to get help and she and Kristie both would have lived. Kimmy was killed right away by a blow to the face. These murders were only a couple of years after the Tate/La Bianca murders, most likely where he got the idea. There was a large hippie enclave in Fayetteville at the time.
I ramble, but I do love the case, I've been studying it since 7th grade, and I do hate the man. Anything "new" which pops up will never change my mind about his guilt. I'd love for him to be innocent, but there is too much evidence. In most cases, the easiest answer or the one which makes the most sense is the right answer. Can you even imagine people chanting "acid is groovy, kill the pigs" while attacking somebody? I still can't understand why he said the "killers" were saying that. Maybe that's what he thought hippies said. :waitasec:
His only defense is shoddy police work. Sound familiar?


 
Kalypso said:
MacDonald didn't actually stab himself. He cut himself a little bit, with surgical precision. His lung bubbled a little air. He was never hurt seriously. Who was the other guy you mentioned? ).
Click to expand...
I can't remember his name, but you may have seen the movie. Melissa Gilbert played his sister-in-law in it. I don't know if the movie gave the real names or not, but I did catch a profile on the real case once and the movie was pretty well on target. The doctor and his brother lived in the same subdivision and both families were very close. In the beginning the family beleive he was a victim of an unknown intruder as was his wife who was murdered, but eventually the truth surfaces and the sister-in-law goes to the police.

Kalypso said:
Regarding Darlie's bruised arms, those looked so familiar to me. I got exactly that kind of blood drainage from gravity after an automobile accident. She didn't fight off any intruder(s).
Click to expand...
I agree. I think she just took advantage of the bruises appearing without explanation. I jsut don't understand why the medical people didn't pick up on it if that is what it was. So I still consider the possibility that there is another explanation.
 
Regarding Darlie's bruised arms, those looked so familiar to me. I got exactly that kind of blood drainage from gravity after an automobile accident. She didn't fight off any intruder(s).
Click to expand...

I dont quite understand what you mean. I know what lividity is, but what are you saying caused yours? Injuries or being in the same position at the hospital or what? Another thing about the bruises, I bruise like crazy when I have blood drawn or an IV put in which is usually done on the inside of the arm. Pix of Darlie in the hospital show her covered in tubes. I don't just bruise at the injection site. I bruise up and down my arm. She also had some bruises on her knuckles, but it wouldn't take much to slam your fists against a piece of furniture or whatever....
 
Kalypso said:
Good posts, beesy! Looks like we posted about Mac at the same time. You know more details than I. So the puncture to his lung was with the ice pick, not a cut/slice, then?
Click to expand...


No, it wasn't. He used a scalpel not an icepick to inflict the lung injury. He also had observed similar surgery a few days before that so he knew where to inflict the injury without damaging any other organs.
 
beesy said:
Yes, it was a very simple puncture, not a slice or cut. To make it seem as if Colette and the girls were attacked by more than one person, he used 3 different weapons, a 2x4(in the bedroom for shelving), the ice pick and a knife. He seemed to think this made his story more believable, but again, nobody would use different weapons on helpless victims, yet use an ice pick only on a Green Beret. He had some bruises, but as I said before, there was a fight that night. Colette was a grown woman and from her wounds appears to have fought hard for her life and those of her children. In fact, most likely she could have gotten away if she'd not gone into the smaller girl's room to save her. There was an outside door right off the master bedroom. He knocked her out and when she came to, instead of running out that door, she ran to Kristie's room. Of course, as a mother too, that'd be my 1st instinct, but in hindsight, if she'd have run outside, she may have been able to get help and she and Kristie both would have lived. Kimmy was killed right away by a blow to the face. These murders were only a couple of years after the Tate/La Bianca murders, most likely where he got the idea. There was a large hippie enclave in Fayetteville at the time.
I ramble, but I do love the case, I've been studying it since 7th grade, and I do hate the man. Anything "new" which pops up will never change my mind about his guilt. I'd love for him to be innocent, but there is too much evidence. In most cases, the easiest answer or the one which makes the most sense is the right answer. Can you even imagine people chanting "acid is groovy, kill the pigs" while attacking somebody? I still can't understand why he said the "killers" were saying that. Maybe that's what he thought hippies said. :waitasec:
His only defense is shoddy police work. Sound familiar?


Click to expand...

you have a few things incorrect. Kris was already dead when Colette managed to stagger into her room to try and protect her. MacDonald heard her and caught up with in that room where he beat her furiously with that club, breaking both her arms and crushing her skull. Kimmie did not die instantly with the first blow to the head, she was still clinically alive when she was stabbed in the neck.

The murders happened a few months after Tate/LaBianca, not a few years. Sharon Tate was murdered in August 1969.

I too have been studing this case for years. It's my favourite. You must be reading on Christina's site if you've seen the autopsy photos. Isn't her site great!!!!
 
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