916 users online (159 members and 757 guests)  



Websleuths News


Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 215
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,607

    What do JonBenet's clothes say?

    from the Patsy Ramsey interrogation (excerpts) interview June 1998, as transcribed by ACR:
    PR: (looking through photo album) "Looks like the little red turtleneck, little cotton red turtleneck that I wanted her to wear to the White's and she didn't want to wear."

    Det. Tom Haney: "How did it end up there?"

    PR: (looking through photo album): "Well," (Patsy then very quietly begins to cry)

    Det. Tom Haney: "It's about 10:25; you want to take a break?"

    PR: (Patsy crying..muffled) "Sorry." (Muffled)

    Interrogation tape appears to break here and a new conversation starts.

    We know that initially, Patsy told the officers that JB went to bed in the red turtleneck; she later changed that story to say that she was put to bed in the white star Gap shirt. We don't know what the pictures show from the White's Christmas party as they have never been publicly released. The red turtleneck was found balled up on the bathroom counter. Patsy says that she removed JB's black velvet jeans and put on the white longjohns that she herself got out of a drawer for her. All the while JB is said to be sleeping.

    I am fascinated with the red turtleneck. I don't think that Patsy got it wrong when she initially reported that JB went to bed wearing that. And here we have Patsy getting upset when she sees the red turtleneck....so upset that Det. Haney obviously feels empathy and takes a break. Why didn't he press her on this? I feel that an opportunity was missed.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    Wasn't thisthe first time she'd seen the photos? I'd think by itself that would have been very stressful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,970
    This is the turtle neck that Patsy and JonBenet argued over,and now it's rolled up in the bathroom,I'm sure from the disagreement they had earlier (and PR admits),and was probably thrown on the counter in frustratation by either PR or JB.

    A very painful reminder of the last day they spent together ... a spat over clothes.I would be crying hysterically.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    Well at least Patsy let her wear the one she wanted to wear. Had she said no it would be an even worse memory. Kind of like John and the new bike.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3,486
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah
    from the Patsy Ramsey interrogation (excerpts) interview June 1998, as transcribed by ACR:
    PR: (looking through photo album) "Looks like the little red turtleneck, little cotton red turtleneck that I wanted her to wear to the White's and she didn't want to wear."

    Det. Tom Haney: "How did it end up there?"

    PR: (looking through photo album): "Well," (Patsy then very quietly begins to cry)

    Det. Tom Haney: "It's about 10:25; you want to take a break?"

    PR: (Patsy crying..muffled) "Sorry." (Muffled)

    Interrogation tape appears to break here and a new conversation starts.

    We know that initially, Patsy told the officers that JB went to bed in the red turtleneck; she later changed that story to say that she was put to bed in the white star Gap shirt. We don't know what the pictures show from the White's Christmas party as they have never been publicly released. The red turtleneck was found balled up on the bathroom counter. Patsy says that she removed JB's black velvet jeans and put on the white longjohns that she herself got out of a drawer for her. All the while JB is said to be sleeping.

    I am fascinated with the red turtleneck. I don't think that Patsy got it wrong when she initially reported that JB went to bed wearing that. And here we have Patsy getting upset when she sees the red turtleneck....so upset that Det. Haney obviously feels empathy and takes a break. Why didn't he press her on this? I feel that an opportunity was missed.
    Interesting point, but I think the most significant thing you bring out is the change of story. It seems almost certain the first reaction PR had to JB's attire being the same or different from that at bedtime would be right. Why change? (Someone else has noted a turtleneck might cover earlier neck marks while at the party if a prior event occurred.)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    Patsy had planned for JonBenet to wear the red turtleneck. That's the memory that was already locked in her brain. Given the stress she was under she simply accessed the memory of what she was supposed to wear and not what she actually wore.


    It is generally accepted that she wore the white shirt to the Whites. Somewhere there is an ST chat discussing this.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    Wasn't thisthe first time she'd seen the photos? I'd think by itself that would have been very stressful.
    Patsy did not stress out or break down when looking at the (stained) pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor, or JonBenet's pajama shirt, or the sweater she wore to the White's party, or her fur-trimmed jacket on John Andrew's bed, or the Barbie nightgown, or any other item of clothing in the photographs, and as we know, there were many such clothes. So why would the turtleneck, which was an item JonBenet rejected, cause such an emotional reaction in Patsy? A reasonable person might speculate that it was because the turtleneck itself was involved in an extremely emotional moment between JonBenet and Patsy, which then brought emotional memories back to Patsy's life again.

    Fact: when cloth is wrapped around a fist and tightened around a person's neck, V-shaped and triangular bruises result. I have pictures from MEDICOLEGAL INVESTIGATION OF DEATH to prove it. Would you like to see them?
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    Quote Originally Posted by why_nutt
    Patsy did not stress out or break down when looking at the (stained) pants on JonBenet's bedroom floor, or JonBenet's pajama shirt, or the sweater she wore to the White's party, or her fur-trimmed jacket on John Andrew's bed, or the Barbie nightgown, or any other item of clothing in the photographs, and as we know, there were many such clothes. So why would the turtleneck, which was an item JonBenet rejected, cause such an emotional reaction in Patsy? A reasonable person might speculate that it was because the turtleneck itself was involved in an extremely emotional moment between JonBenet and Patsy, which then brought emotional memories back to Patsy's life again.

    Fact: when cloth is wrapped around a fist and tightened around a person's neck, V-shaped and triangular bruises result. I have pictures from MEDICOLEGAL INVESTIGATION OF DEATH to prove it. Would you like to see them?
    Yes, please.

    Emotional triggers do not have to be linked to an emotional momemt. It could have been cumulative or simply, yet again, realizing she's never going to be able to shop for clothes with JonBenet.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,061

    Hmmm

    Can we assume that the red shirt (both the NOT wanting to wear it AND the balling up of it) happened BEFORE they all left for the White's party?

    Could we assume that PR wanting JBR to wear the red shirt, words might have gone something like this - 'Mommy would like you to wear the red shirt so you will be all dressed up like a big girl, the same as mommy'? I can go further with a guessing game on the words that were spoken to JBR Christmas night, while dressing for the White's party, but I won't.

    I am guessing that the discussion about what JBR was supposed to wear to the White's party was 'volatile' .

    Remember also the bathroom odor that was picked up by BPD's noses the morning of 12/26/96. I cannot remember the details on that, so jump in anyone that has a source for that. It was an odor that the BPD guys could not identify, nor find a source for.

    Was the red shirt balled up BEFORE they left for the party, OR after they all came home at some point in that bad night?



    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    How do you get "volatile" from "tiff?"


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,389
    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    How do you get "volatile" from "tiff?"
    What's wrong with volatile? If things were calm one minute and tiffy the next - I'd say that was a "volatile" situation (i.e. changing..). Volatile is a fairly flexible word.

    Last week I was writing a comment about a pupil in a tiny little box. I wanted to write "easily distracted" but there just wasn't enough room so I wrote "distractable". I figured his Tutor would know what I meant. However, his Tutor (a good friend of mine) took great pleasure in teasing me about it in the staffroom. I have just discovered it's a real word, so I'm going to get back at him tomorrow.

    Other excellent words - "jamp" (instead of jumped). It's got a lovely ring to it.

    One of my favourites expressions is "Nabbed out". A NAB is the name given to a school assessment here in Scotland. When teachers have been assessing lots of pupils or if pupils have done lots of assessments, we say they are "nabbed out". Perfect description!
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,607
    I don't personally think that P or J killed JBR; however, I do think Patsy changing her story about what JB was wearing is telling. I think the red turtleneck is a clue of sorts. For Patsy to give erroneous info about the red turtleneck is suspicious, IMO. That and the "red heart" story she told during her '98 interviews are two things that I think are indicative that she saw JB's body prior to 1:00 p.m. on Dec. 27th. These instances, plus Jb's bedroom scene and the 3 blue hairties in her hair, are all speaking something. Exactly what, I'm not sure. As Patsy stated, "There are two people who know....the perp and someone he/she told." (My paraphrase) I agree.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    While volatile can be used to mean changing (or evaporating) I think the most common use of it in this country (other than the stock market) is explosive, on the edge of violence. Tiff is a small or petty argument.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,607
    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    While volatile can be used to mean changing (or evaporating) I think the most common use of it in this country (other than the stock market) is explosive, on the edge of violence. Tiff is a small or petty argument.
    But who used the word "tiff"? Was it Patsy? If so, and the scene were truly volatile, I wouldn't expect her to say that. Guilty or not, I wouldn't put myself in that position when I was already under the umbrella.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    If you were being honest about what happened and didn't have a guilty conscience you might.

Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. JLM's clothes
    By Emaa in forum Hannah Graham
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 10-31-2014, 08:37 AM
  2. clothes??
    By LLLindsayy in forum WS-BAY!
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-18-2010, 05:48 PM
  3. The Clothes
    By JBean in forum Chelsea King
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 03-14-2010, 02:09 PM
  4. Abercrombie clothes
    By Lauren in forum WS-BAY!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-16-2004, 12:30 AM
  5. DNA From JonBenet's Clothes Given to FBI
    By seye in forum JonBenet Ramsey
    Replies: 126
    Last Post: 01-04-2004, 01:22 PM