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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by SStarr33 View Post
    Sounds like a civil rights issue.
    That's one layer.

    While familial searching may be effective given a particular set of circumstances, many questions remain. Critics argue that the practice puts unsuspecting and law-abiding citizens under genetic surveillance and violates a constitutional right to privacy that shouldn’t be surrendered just because a relative has given up his rights by committing a crime. And, because the current U.S. databases have a disproportionate number of African American and Hispanic samples, others argue the practice is a new form of racial profiling.
    http://www.forensicmag.com/articles/...ersy-continues
    It’s always been true that a family member’s guilty conscience could be a criminal’s ultimate downfall. Now, thanks to familial DNA matching, a brother or sister can be a snitch without ever saying a word. But what about that criminal’s cousin? Half-cousin? Third cousin twice removed?
    According to researchers at the University of California-Berkeley and New York University, led by Rori Rohlfs, familial DNA searching will often indicate that two people are close relatives when they are in fact distant relatives. For instances, in an experiment that tested the process of familial DNA matching in the California DNA database (using simulated genetic profiles based on publicly available data), the researchers found that cousins could be misidentified as siblings.

    This type of mistake could cost investigators a lot of time and money, as well as intrude on innocent people’s lives and privacy. Investigators may be interrogating immediate family members who have nothing to do with the crime. Or, the familial search could implicate very distant relatives—so distant that their relationship with the suspects will not be helpful to investigators at all.
    http://www.psmag.com/science/the-fla...atching-64736/
    See also:
    The Influence of Relatives on the Efficiency and Error Rate of Familial Searching

    Policy implications for familial searching

    50 Years Later, a Break in a Boston Strangler Case
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  2. #92
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    I have one small article.

    i do have one small article that just reports that it was believed she died in a struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by toetag View Post
    Hello. Glad you've joined us.

    Do you have access to the 1993 newspaper articles about this murder?

  3. #93
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    Some things I cant release


    Quote Originally Posted by RichKelly View Post
    Welcome Sgt

    Before I ask any questions, is there any aspects of this crime or its findings you are unable to disclose?

  4. #94
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    Will do we know her relationship with her father, brother, uncle, cousins? Where was her mother? Is there a step dad? Why was she raised by her Aunt and Uncle?

  5. #95
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    Thank you for featuring Carmen's case. My direct number is (317)327-1270 and department email is william.carter@indy.gov if anyone has information.

  6. #96
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    Is Carmen's Autopsy Report Available?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleMissContrary View Post
    I am curious about her co-workers at Pizza Hut. Did the police interview any of the employees? An older manager maybe? I am wondering why Pizza Hut made no attempt to use the emergency contact number when Carmen didn't show up to work? What is their policy in situations where employees don't show up to work?
    All good questions, LittleMissContrary.

    How late do they sale beer in Indy? They can sell beer from 10am. until 10pm. where I live to a 21yo and older. Was the fast food wrapper a Pizza Hut box?

    Carmen should have driven past the Pizza Hut on the way home from the hospital which is a 42 minute drive without heavy traffic. Add time for dropping the dad and brother off at their Southside home.

    The route from the hospital to Turtle Creek shows they are on opposite sides of town:

    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Turt...d39.637757!3e0

    If she left the hospital with her grandmother sick and dying at 10:00 that places her walking down the hallway laughing and talking into her apartment with the male companion at 11:00. If it was 11:30 that she was heard in the hallway that gives her a possible 30 minutes to meet the guy and invite him into her apt.

    If the screams "get off of me" or "get off me" were heard, she did not anticipate a sexual encounter. At this point, he is prob attempting to kiss her and she is forcefully pushing him away.

    The killer was inside her apt. for likely two hours, if his rapid footsteps were heard departing at 1:30. Stabbing 50 times takes time even with his adrenaline pumping or maybe he took his time with his crime. But why would a rapist/murderer be satisfied by doing this just once given the murderer's need to overkill his victim, Carmen Hope?

    Unless the young lady, Carmen Hope, was accustomed to being evasive with her father, why not just tell him: Oh, I can't spend the night bc I've already planned for so and so to drop by for a few minutes while I wash my uniforms for work tomorrow?

    Therefore, it was an unplanned event for this person to meet up with Carmen, immho. Furthermore, Carmen had a boyfriend who was out of town and so was her ex-boyfriend. Was the boyfriend surprised she might invite another man over while he was away?

    Did the killer take a shower afterwards? Surely he was covered in blood. How far did he run after leaving her door? Did he leave a blood trail? Shoeprints? Are his fingerprints on beer cans?

    If he is not in CODIS, he has never been convicted of a felony.

    Under the umbrella of suspicion, in no particular order:

    1) [art] students where she attended classes
    2) employees at Pizza Hut [Who doesn't call after an employee misses 2 days? She had worked there almost a year.]
    3) the neighbor who complained to management [sure heard a lot of details not to have dialed 911 for her/his neighbor]
    4) hospital employee at South Community
    5) young male neighbor in apts.
    6) male friend taking advantage of her boyfriend being out of town
    Last edited by DeDee; 06-21-2014 at 03:06 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by willcarter View Post
    Some things I cant release
    Understood

  8. #98
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    "On March 24, Missy Hennings, who had shared a two-bedroom apartment with Van Huss and two other young women for several months, stopped by the Pizza Hut where she had previously worked to see if she could work some waitress shifts. She asked about Van Huss but managers told Hennings that Van Huss had missed a couple of days of work and didn't answer her phone."

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/04/19/indiana-unsolved-carmen-van-huss/7903283/

    Just some thoughts...

    I thought it was strange (LMC) that her job only called her emergency contact AFTER MH came in inquiring about her. Was it by her suggestion that they do so?

    I have to wonder what the terms of her friendship with MH and the other ex-roomates were. Apparently they worked together as well. Was their any strain on those friendships? Jealousy?

    One of these room mates could have been gossiping (purely speculation) that their ex-roomate was easy, a slut etc (you know how girls do). Maybe one of their male friends overheard this and got it in his head (or was intentionally encouraged to think) that he could go over there and get some sex. He gets there, she recognizes him, invites him in and is rejected and he snaps out?

    It's curious and coincidental (to me) that MH would walk into a job she no longer works at and inquire about picking up shifts, right after her ex roommate/ex co worker was murdered.

    I agree with the poster (RK was it?) that said the killer probably carried a knife on him as part of his macho persona. It was possibly a weapon of opportunity (something he happened to have on him), not necessarily premeditated intent.

    This killer had to be a bloody mess and even if he showered it would've been on his clothes and shoes. There must be some evidence of which direction he left in.

    If the neighbor heard her screaming "get off me" and the noise was enough to disturb them (it must have been loud, she was fighting for her life) why not call police? It's not from a case of minding their own business or they wouldn't have complained to the management right? Strange? I think so.

    I suppose that the police probably already talked to the neighbor and ex roommates (or friends of) and ruled them out? Purely speculation but I think MH could know something or someone involved.
    Last edited by Justiceforever; 06-21-2014 at 06:58 PM. Reason: clarity
    "It seems our profound fascination with serial killers is matched by an equally profound lack of interest in their victims." - Vanessa Veselka

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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichKelly View Post
    That leaves one type, Power Assertive rape.

    The power assertive type is the second most common type of rapist .

    The Power assertive, is basically your "macho" type, who feels its his right as male to take sexually that which he desires.

    Date rape is not beyond his realm of behavior
    Will often use enough force to force victim compliance, but will escalate along with victim resistance, (he cant let a victim, especially a female, physically or mentally dominate him)

    Often meets the victim immediately prior to the attack, could be hours, or even minutes.

    Demonstrates little concern for the victim, often callous indifference , will often cut (if he brought a weapon) or tear her clothes off.

    Psychologically women are a means of gratification (sexual release) that's it, to him its his unwritten right as a male. Therefore he may frequent singles bars, singles events, dating sites, may frequent prostitutes, even though he may be in a relationship

    If he is in a relationship, it will be one of mostly dominance by him with a somewhat submissive partner, whom he may be significantly older than.

    May or may not bring a weapon, if he does its usually a weapon of choice, (knife or gun most often)

    May commit multiple assaults within a small timeframe
    (investigative consideration, check to see if there were any other assaults bearing this type of behavior in the hours, or days following her murder!)

    he often knows his victim... which is what we all seem to identify with on this case. We know she resisted , at least verbally, which to the above type individual could trigger, an escalation of force, needed.. It may have also been a way to eliminate a witness, if he felt threatened she would call police post offense.

    Though my feeling is she fought him, and he escalated, to the point he was going to "show her"

    This all seems to exist in this case within a interpersonal realm with the offender and victim (She knew him)
    <respectfully snipped for focus>

    So Rich, I keep coming back to this nice tight profile you've put together. Understandably, we're working with limited information, but based on what we do know, this seems like a good starting point. Now what I'd like to do -- if it's possible, and I hope this makes sense -- is to step backward from here. In other words, if this is a snapshot of the person at the time of his encounter with Hope, can we develop another snapshot from earlier in the day? Who was this guy when he woke up that morning?

    We've been able to narrow down some anonymous possibilities from what we know about the circumstances and Carmen's lifestyle, such as another tenant or friend of a tenant, a co-worker, a restaurant or hospital employee she encountered that night, etc. Is it feasible to knead those variables into your profile to flesh out a more rounded out picture? Why do that? I dunno, but I was just thinking that if we stick a nose and some ears on this guy, so to speak, it might jog a memory.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by willcarter View Post
    i do have one small article that just reports that it was believed she died in a struggle.
    Can you please share? TIA
    "It seems our profound fascination with serial killers is matched by an equally profound lack of interest in their victims." - Vanessa Veselka

    http://stoptheviolencemilwaukee.blogspot.com/

    "This is a wonderful day. I have never seen this one ever before." Dr. Maya Angelou

    F.L.Y. First love yourself!




  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by willcarter View Post
    I am the Det Sgt mentioned on 48 hours. My hope on Carmen's case is that someone may have a similar crime that they recall. I work one cold case at a time in addition to my other duties. The suspect's dna was uploaded into the national database. There is a chance that whoever came with her earlier in the night may have left but not likely.
    I was re reading this thread and I admit I am a little confused by the bolded statement. What did you mean by the last sentence?

    They have DNA of the suspect but it's not likely the DNA of the guy who she was (laughing) with in the hallway? Am I reading this right?

    So, do they think it was someone else that came later and killed her?

    Thank you in advance if you could clear this up for me.
    "It seems our profound fascination with serial killers is matched by an equally profound lack of interest in their victims." - Vanessa Veselka

    http://stoptheviolencemilwaukee.blogspot.com/

    "This is a wonderful day. I have never seen this one ever before." Dr. Maya Angelou

    F.L.Y. First love yourself!



  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justiceforever View Post
    I was re reading this thread and I admit I am a little confused by the bolded statement. What did you mean by the last sentence?

    They have DNA of the suspect but it's not likely the DNA of the guy who she was (laughing) with in the hallway? Am I reading this right?

    So, do they think it was someone else that came later and killed her?

    Thank you in advance if you could clear this up for me.
    I'm pretty sure it means it is NOT likely that the guy she was with in the hallway left AND some other guy came along and committed the crime.

    In other words, most likely, guy in hallway = killer.
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    I'm pretty sure it means it is NOT likely that the guy she was with in the hallway left AND some other guy came along and committed the crime.

    In other words, most likely, guy in hallway = killer.
    When I originally read it, that's what I thought and when I re read it, I was confused. Then again confusing me is not hard to do!
    "It seems our profound fascination with serial killers is matched by an equally profound lack of interest in their victims." - Vanessa Veselka

    http://stoptheviolencemilwaukee.blogspot.com/

    "This is a wonderful day. I have never seen this one ever before." Dr. Maya Angelou

    F.L.Y. First love yourself!



  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by willcarter View Post
    i do have one small article that just reports that it was believed she died in a struggle.

    Will you please post it, or a link to it? TIA.

  15. #105
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    Some of the scenarios mentioned are possible but when you think your way through what probably happened, some things make it seem as though it was not the killers first time. He could be friendly enough to gain her confidence, not affection.
    When he gets into CVH's apartment she's doomed but doesn't know it, he's getting excited.
    When he tries to get off with her she screams, the only thing an excited agitated "killer" would do next is to silence her screams quickly - he must have hit her. Probably he punched her in the head or in the face. He had to shut her up quickly. I think she had to have been sent unconcious by blows to the head and face.
    Then, when he shut her up, he still wanted to do what he came for in the first place, he raped her. To do that , remember she had to have been unconcious, he would have taken off his clothes. Sex with CVH is what he came for, so he took his clothes off and raped her. He was enraged.
    After the rape, he had a problem, she would call the police and he would be in a lot of trouble. It was after he had got what he wanted, the rape, that he had to think of how he was going to get out of what he had done.
    Stabbing her to death was the best way out he could think of, he was probably naked and bare foot, CVH was undoubtedly unconcious, so stabbing her to death would have been messy, and would have taken quite a long time, but she could not fight back. Over 50 stab wounds would be exhausting and very messy.
    He had enough time to take a shower and clean himself up, his clothes and shoes need not have been covered in blood, he had plenty of time to think, now the urgency had gone.
    I very much doubt that was the first time he had committed this type of crime, and I also think he probably committed some more afterwards. I hope he is in prison, maybe one day we will find out.

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