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  1. #1
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    The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16

    Missing person, Brookfield

    April 20, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    Police are seeking public assistance to help locate missing 43-year-old woman, Allison Baden-Clay.



    http://mypolice.qld.gov.au/blog/2012...on-brookfield/

    *************************************************


    Body found as search for missing woman Allison Baden-Clay enters 11th day

    April 30, 2012 8:06PM

    Police strongly suspect the body found this morning is missing Brookfield woman Allison Baden-Clay and are treating the case as a homicide investigation.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226342625074

    ************************************************

    Confirmed: Body found in creek identified as Allison Baden-Clay

    May 01, 2012 6:54PM

    A WOMAN'S body found on a creek bank in Brisbane's west has been identified as that of missing mum Allison Baden-Clay.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226343926997

    **************************************************

    Gerard Baden-Clay charged with murder

    June 13, 2012

    Police have charged the husband of slain Brisbane mother Allison Baden-Clay with murder.

    Shortly before 6.30pm, Gerard Baden-Clay was driven from Indooroopilly station in an unmarked police car. He was formally charged with murder at the Brisbane watchhouse tonight

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz33ZIYVvXt

    **********************************************

    Gerard Baden-Clay to stand trial for murder

    March 20, 2013

    Before a packed court room on Wednesday morning, Chief Magistrate Brendan Butler ordered Mr Baden-Clay face trial in the Supreme Court

    ‘‘I'm of the opinion the evidence is sufficient to put the defendant on trial on the offences charged,’’ Mr Butler said.

    ‘‘It will be for the jury to assess the evidence ...

    As Mr Butler formally committed Mr Baden-Clay to stand trial, he asked the 42-year-old real estate agent to stand.

    ‘‘You are charged that on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at Brisbane in the state of Queensland you murdered Allison June Baden-Clay,’’ Mr Butler said.

    ‘‘You are further charged that on or about the 19th of April 2012 at Brisbane in the state of Queensland you improperly interfered with a dead human body,’’ Mr Butler said.

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz33Z2Bd99v


    Trial Day 1 - Trial Days 2 & 3 - Trial Day 4 - Trial Day 5 - Trial Day 6 - Trial Day 7 - Trial Day 8 -
    Trial Day 9
    - Trial Day 10 - Trial Day 11 - Trial Day 12 - Trial Day 13 - Trial Day 14 - Trial Day 15
    Last edited by marlywings; 07-07-2014 at 08:32 AM.

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  3. #3
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    The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16

    SUPREME COURT CRIMINAL SITTINGS

    LAW LIST

    Tuesday - 8th July 2014

    BADEN-CLAY (Trial part heard) Justice Byrne

    Court 11.........Floor 5

    10:00 AM


    http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__exter...t/Brisbane.htm
    Last edited by marlywings; 07-07-2014 at 08:25 AM.

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    The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16


  5. #5
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    The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16

    A BIG thankyou to Websleuths for allowing this to happen...

    As we look for justice for Allison...

    Please continue here....

  6. #6
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    Remember Fuller jumping all overr the shop...asking questions and then changing tact?
    Well I believe it will all get tied up together with a big beautiful yellow ribbon today when he presents the whole sordid, dastardly, despicable story to the jury....

  7. #7
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    IMO, this trial's also highlighted some really pervasive and just plain wrong assumptions about 'mental illness', e.g. that:

    1. Anxiety = depression
    2. Depression = chronic, thoroughly debilitating, condition into which sufferer has no insight and over which sufferer can have no control
    3. Depression presenting in any context including children = postnatal depression
    4. Anxiety + depression = suicide.

    All absolutes and just so far off the mark. My take on her TREATING doctors' evidence was that Allison was more on the anxiety end of the spectrum, evidenced by occasional panic attacks, agitation and her score on assessment. Absolutely related, but not the same as depression.

    I've said before that it's so distasteful that Allison's private world has had to be blown right open for all the world to see, but hopefully a tiny bit of good can come from that, in that anyone needing to know that they are not alone will see her very human responses to immense stressors as quite predictable, normal and unfortunately, a common side effect of complex, modern, STRESSFUL life. That's even before you add in her additional loads to bear, which were MANY and VARIED. Frankly, I am amazed Allison could get out of bed every day, let alone do any of the things it's been proven she did with verve and grace.

    To those understandably feeling that the victim has been further violated and vilified, just you wait. The portrait the prosecution will paint and perhaps even the Judge's remarks may go some way to redressing the balance. Hang in there, not long to go now.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JK673 View Post
    Remember Fuller jumping all overr the shop...asking questions and then changing tact?
    Well I believe it will all get tied up together with a big beautiful yellow ribbon today when he presents the whole sordid, dastardly, despicable story to the jury....
    That was quite masterful cross-exam. One of the highlights for me was when Fuller QC asked quickly and right out of the blue: let's change tack. Your phone, your lifeblood, where was it that morning when you awoke? Clever strategy to disarm and unravel a chronologically rehearsed version of events.

  9. #9
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    Apologies that I am just "sticking my head up" at this point, as I just can't keep up!
    I did however, think it was important to give some local perspective on the "Allison's walk" conversation.
    The two routes outlined by GBC to police on the morning Allison went missing would be barely 3 klms.
    The route around the school would be somewhere between 1 and 2 klms and would take 20 mins at best, although it does include a steep hill.
    My husband and I are regulars on one of these routes, both running and cycling, and neither of us had ever seen Allison, even though our exercise timetable would seemingly overlap with hers, as described by GBC.
    Anyway, IMO, it'd be a huge jump from a 2 klm walk to a 14 klm one, in the middle of the night, and totally unseen by anyone.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Her Honour View Post
    IMO, this trial's also highlighted some really pervasive and just plain wrong assumptions about 'mental illness', e.g. that:

    1. Anxiety = depression
    2. Depression = chronic, thoroughly debilitating, condition into which sufferer has no insight and over which sufferer can have no control
    3. Depression presenting in any context including children = postnatal depression
    4. Anxiety + depression = suicide.

    All absolutes and just so far off the mark. My take on her TREATING doctors' evidence was that Allison was more on the anxiety end of the spectrum, evidenced by occasional panic attacks, agitation and her score on assessment. Absolutely related, but not the same as depression.

    I've said before that it's so distasteful that Allison's private world has had to be blown right open for all the world to see, but hopefully a tiny bit of good can come from that, in that anyone needing to know that they are not alone will see her very human responses to immense stressors as quite predictable, normal and unfortunately, a common side effect of complex, modern, STRESSFUL life. That's even before you add in her additional loads to bear, which were MANY and VARIED. Frankly, I am amazed Allison could get out of bed every day, let alone do any of the things it's been proven she did with verve and grace.

    To those understandably feeling that the victim has been further violated and vilified, just you wait. The portrait the prosecution will paint and perhaps even the Judge's remarks may go some way to redressing the balance. Hang in there, not long to go now.
    I completely agree with you, Her Honour, regarding this case highlighting common misperceptions about 'mental illness' in our society - particularly depression.

    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Allison was never diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder was she? So why suddenly is it being said that she had chronic depression? There was no evidence of that from mental health experts, as far as I've seen (but I have been skimming the threads trying to catch up!).

    And yes, the panic attacks and agitation are symptomatic of anxiety rather than depression. People commonly seem to merge depression and anxiety for some reason, but they are completely separate issues with very different presentations.

    It's very obvious to me that the defense are just scraping at anything to try and convince the jury that she might have killed herself - thus the need to over-emphasize her depression.........hopefully it's obvious to the jury as well!!



  11. #11
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    Sorry to be banging on, so preoccupied with this trial.

    I'm not being sarcastic here, but was thinking how very difficult in the future it will be for GBC to obtain funds from anyone short of actually working for a wage. In order to loan to him, you'd probably want to believe that he doesn't know what happened to his wife AND you'd have a reasonably founded suspicion that you would never see your money again.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya1977 View Post
    Ali have the jury been allowed to discuss the case together up to this point, or is that only allowed during deliberations?

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
    I am pretty sure they have to wait until they officially deliberate but they will talk about general processes of the court. They are able to give notes to the judge about concerns like they can't hear properly, being approached by media so they can chat to each other. Happy for anyone who has been on a jury to comment. Breaking News are you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seeking View Post
    Thanks for all the tweets and updates today. One question that I have is probably for Alioop. I have limited experience with courts (very grateful for that), so
    I may just be naive. My understanding is that everyone needs to speak the truth in court. Of course the jury will need to decide whether defendants and witnesses are speaking the truth or not and of course unfortunately lies will sometimes be told under oath. The extension of this understanding would be that a defense barrister would need to only present what he knows to be truth too. Of course if his or her client has told them a lie they will still present that assuming that it is true. That makes sense to me. Unless told otherwise the defense barrister at least outwardly believes their client. Of course inwardly there is always the chance that they have a different personal opinion. What I find to be confusing is when evidence is presented to the jury as fact when it seems to be already proven that it is not. I know the job of the defense barrister is to create doubt, but it can't be ethical to misrepresent things to the jury. Examples where this seemed to be happening today with the defense summary were when he suggested that Alison could have been shifted to the spot she was found in through tidal movements where I thought that all of the reports indicated that she was in the position she was found in very soon after her death. Another example was when he said that Alison could have jumped, but this seems to be in contrast to her body being found under the bridge with no broken bones. Of course I have not sat in the court and heard all the evidence and I am not an expert. In the interests of justice shouldn't known truthful facts be left as known truthful facts. It seems unfair and unethical to create confusion about these type of facts for the jury. I can understand creating doubt about things like who put the phone on the charger at 1:48am, whether the blood in the back of the Captiva was the result of Alison being transported to Kholo in the car or not, and even how she died. I also thought that there was evidence that she didn't drown and so I wondered why that come up again too. My other question is about how people speak of a victim in a court case. In the very limited court cases I have supported people through and therefore witnessed, the legal people always gave me the idea that alleged victim's need to be spoken to and about in respectful and non condemnatory ways, even if a defendant believed that an alleged victim was lying and had character flaws. In this case Alison is a true victim. There is no question about whether or not she has experienced an injustice, nor is there a question about whether she is telling the truth or not, as she lost her life and can't "speak" to defend herself. Again, I am not in the courtroom, and have only followed the case from afar, but the impression I got was that at times Alison was portrayed very negatively...... yet she is the victim. This confused me as to why this was allowed, as it seemed (from a distance) in some ways to be disrespectful. Alioop, can you please explain. It might be that I live in a different part of Australia and there are different rules and expectations about how defense teams speak about victims. I don't know. These are just my observations and questions from a distance as we wait for justice for this beautiful lady and her family.
    Evidence is presented from both sides and one bit of evidence may seem to us to be very compelling. For eg the expert that said Allison did not drown as she had no diatoms in her bone marrow and I think liver. However that is still just evidence and it is up to the jury to decide if they accept that evidence. We think it sounds cut and dried but it still has to be decided on by the jury. So when the defence says Allison may have drowned, the jury is yet to deliberate to determine this fact. So in that sense the defence are not misleading the jury, they are just continuing with their arguments but that's all they are arguments. The jury makes the conclusions about the evidence presented. On some evidence, conclusions will be easier to reach than others because the evidence is overwhelming in respect of one side of the argument. The best example is the face marks. I think the jury will accept the overwhelming evidence that they are fingernail scratches and not razor injuries.
    Same with suicide and seratonin syndrome. Both sides have presented evidence, and the jury is yet to deliberate it. We make assumptions based on the evidence we hear but we are not the jury.

    As to victim negativity or bashing, it gets a lot worse than how the defence have painted Allison. That has been mild in my opinion but still upsetting to those who love and cares for her. We just need to accept that will happen when someone is desperately fighting a murder conviction.

    Today will paint a very different picture and Allison will be heard today, loud and clear. And that will be the last words about her that the jury will hear before they start their deliberations. The judge will do his directions but it will be just about law stuff.

    My opinion has not been swayed by yesterday's defence closing statement. The prosecution has a strong circumstantial case. It will sound even stronger at the end of today when the prosecution pulls all those pieces of twine together to a sturdy rope so to speak.


    All in my opinion only

  13. #13
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    Things I should be doing today - will have the iPad nearby though

  14. #14
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    Morning all. I can do Kate's tweets today. Hoping today will be a much better day & the prosecution bring some justice for Allison & her family & friends. Yesterday must have been so hard on them all.

  15. #15
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    Another thing to add to the Misogyny-Fest yesterday:

    Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 17h
    Byrne says Gerard's brother's newborn son was the first male grandson. #badenclay

    Presumably Olivia's son doesn't count because?...

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