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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    They have evidence, but not all of it. They have until trial to up the charges. I don't think it's the easy way, but right now it's pretty smart. Have the charges serious enough and have evidence enough to keep him in jail, while you gather a complete case.

    I think Casey Anthony changed how parents are charged now. If they had tried her on lesser charges or included them, would she be free? I think you can always find a sympathetic person for a parent on a jury and that's very, very scary.
    I believe the jury did have the option of sentencing Casey to a lesser charge.

    Has there ever been any study done showing that the Anthony trial changed the legal system? I see it brought up whenever someone has not been arrested, charged a certain way, etc...Are there any statistics or studies about its effect on later cases?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    I'm taking a look at what crimminal negligence means in the State of Georgia. I found this.



    So it doesn't mean an intentional act but it implies knowledge of probable consequences and also willful or wanton disregard of the probable effects. To me, for the state to prove criminal negligence, which is required for the 2nd degree child cruelty and then the felony murder to be applied, a willful or wanton disregard must be proven.

    To me a willful or wanton disregard for the death of a child is a deliberate and unprovoked act. I'm not sure how that could happen unintentionally. It seems that intent would be involved somehow.

    How will a jury see this?

    http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc...uct-in-georgia
    Thank you -- that's what I was getting ready to ask: It seems that if you think an SOB to be guilty then the felony murder law is "genius"... if you find someone to be innocent, it's a "travesty"

    How exactly will this play out in a jury trial? To be honest, I'm a little scared that he'll walk (despite what I think; I can't and never will be on that jury).
    HOPING I CAN HELP
    but, what if .... ?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    They have evidence, but not all of it. They have until trial to up the charges. I don't think it's the easy way, but right now it's pretty smart. Have the charges serious enough and have evidence enough to keep him in jail, while you gather a complete case.

    I think Casey Anthony changed how parents are charged now. If they had tried her on lesser charges or included them, would she be free? I think you can always find a sympathetic person for a parent on a jury and that's very, very scary.
    BBM

    I'm not sure why the State of Georgia would need to up the charges from where there at now. They can ask for the death penalty. You can't go much higher than that. JMO.

    2010 Georgia Code
    TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES
    CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON
    ARTICLE 1 - HOMICIDE
    16-5-1 - Murder; felony murder
    O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
    16-5-1. Murder; felony murder

    (d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.
    http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/...ticle-1/16-5-1

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    I believe the jury did have the option of sentencing Casey to a lesser charge.

    Has there ever been any study done showing that the Anthony trial changed the legal system? I see it brought up whenever someone has not been arrested, charged a certain way, etc...Are there any statistics or studies about its effect on later cases?
    I have no idea. It's JMO, that is was a game changer.

    By the way, I really think even the lesser charges needed evidence they didn't have.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    BBM

    I'm not sure why the State of Georgia would need to up the charges from where there at now. They can ask for the death penalty. You can't go much higher than that. JMO.



    http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/...ticle-1/16-5-1
    I would be fine with the charges standing, personally.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue22 View Post
    I would be fine with the charges standing, personally.
    I kind of figured you didn't want to lower them.

    I think a lot of people do not know that this is a death penalty case as it stands right now. That's why I posted the Georgia statue showing that.

    Some have said that having the death penalty as an option when premeditation is not required is not right.

    I agree.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    I kind of figured you didn't want to lower them.

    I think a lot of people do not know that this is a death penalty case as it stands right now. That's why I posted the Georgia statue showing that.

    Some have said that having the death penalty as an option when premeditation is not required is not right.

    I agree.
    BBM - I tend to agree - seems a bit harsh not to have degrees of murder. I think the reason for the kill should play a factor, and punish accordingly.
    But to simplify and put it in its basic form, if you kill you have then murdered. Case closed. Is pretty straight forward.

    I'm curious how jury selection will go if the death penalty remains.

    my opinion, etc.
    Last edited by Ruby; 07-13-2014 at 01:15 AM. Reason: to add comment

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    BBM

    I'm not sure why the State of Georgia would need to up the charges from where there at now. They can ask for the death penalty. You can't go much higher than that. JMO.



    http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/...ticle-1/16-5-1
    They need to up the charges if they want life or the DP because sentencing under the old law is either not likely to get such a result or it will be overturned on appeal. GA has expressed it's position that second degree child cruelty does not warrant that type of charge. Do you get it already jmo

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruby View Post
    BBM - I tend to agree - seems a bit harsh not to have degrees of murder. I think the reason for the kill should play a factor, and punish accordingly.
    But to simplify and put it in its basic form, if you kill you have then murdered. Case closed. Is pretty straight forward.
    I'm curious how jury selection will go if the death penalty remains.

    my opinion, etc.
    the bbm is so, so, so not true. There's all KINDS of killing that isn't murder. Killing in war, the imposition of the death penalty, killing in self defense, etc.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
    They need to up the charges if they want life or the DP because sentencing under the old law is either not likely to get such a result or it will be overturned on appeal. GA has expressed it's position that second degree child cruelty does not warrant that type of charge. Do you get it already jmo
    Where can I find the actual statute for the new Georgia law about this. I saw a post on another thread but there was no link to the source.

    I would really like to read the source material. If you don't have it, that's okay. I'll try to find it on my own.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    Where can I find the actual statute for the new Georgia law about this. I saw a post on another thread but there was no link to the source.

    I would really like to read the source material. If you don't have it, that's okay. I'll try to find it on my own.
    It was just posted in the general thread. The big long thread about the law I referred to

  12. #42
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    Here's the new law quoted from Pigpong's post on the general thread:

    (a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

    (b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

    (c) A person commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

    (d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

    (e)(1) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

    (2) A person convicted of the offense of murder in the second degree shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 30 years.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karmady View Post
    Here's the new law quoted from Pigpong's post on the general thread:

    (a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

    (b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

    (c) A person commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

    (d) A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

    (e)(1) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

    (2) A person convicted of the offense of murder in the second degree shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 30 years.
    Thanks Karmady. I still would like to know where Pigpong got this. And I still want to know if this is retroactive to this case. We don't know that yet.
    Last edited by RANCH; 07-13-2014 at 02:53 AM. Reason: spelling

  14. #44
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    As far as I know, Justin Ross Harris is still charged with 16-5-1(c) and not 16-5-1 (d) or 16-5-1(e)(1).

    So unless he's charged under the new (d) or (e) (1) statues I would say that the previous statues apply. JMO.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANCH View Post
    Thanks Karmady. I still would like to know where Pigpong got this. And I still what to know if this is retroactive to this case. We don't know that yet.
    Here are some links:

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20132014/142178.pdf

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/...4/14sumdoc.pdf

    From the above link:

    Act 577; HB 271
    This Act creates the offense of murder in the second degree and provides for cross-references to the
    new crime. The Act also changes provisions relating to forms of collateral required for professional
    bonding companies and increases the allowable fees for sureties.
    The Act amends O.C.G.A. Sections 15-1-16, 15-11-203, 15-11-233, 15-11-560, 16-5-1, 16-11-131,
    16-11-133, 16-12-1.1, 17-6-15, 17-6-30, 31-2-9, 31-7-250, 35-3-190, 42-5-85, 42-9-45, and 49-2-14.1.
    Effective July 1, 2014.


    It's on page 11 of this one:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

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