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  1. #1
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    Panama - Lisanne Froon, 22, & Kris Kremers, 21, Boquete, 1 April 2014 - #4

    Police in Panama are hunting two young Dutch women who disappeared after making plans to go on a country walk near the mountain town of Boquete.
    http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...n_disappea.php

    The women still have not been found.
    A Facebook page has been created for them: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lisan...88075314805262

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  3. #3
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    Panama - Dutch women Lisanne Froon, 22, & Kris Kremers, 21, Boquete, 1 Apr 2014 , #4

    Please continue here.

    Please be mindful of the rules.
    You can find them here:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/for...?159-The-Rules

    Thread #1

    Thread #2

    Thread #3
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 08-16-2014 at 07:49 AM.

  4. #4
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    Solo un hueso corresponde a la holandesa, según ADN
    Pittí detalló que tres de los restos óseos encontrados son de humano y los otros tres corresponde a animales bovinos y porcinos.

    15 de agosto
    16:09
    Solo un hueso corresponde a la holandesa, según ADN

    Autoridades del Ministerio Público brindan detalles de los resultados de ADN a huesos óseos encontrados en cordillera de Chirquí y Bocas del ×Toro, relacionados con el caso de las holandesas. (Foto: Jason Morales)


    La Fiscal de Chiriquí, Betzaida Pittí, en compañía de un experto del Instituto de Medicina Legal (IMEL) confirmaron que de los seis fragmentos óseos analizados solo uno corresponde a la holandesa Kris Kremers de acuerdo a los resultados de la prueba de ADN.

    Pittí detalló que tres de los restos óseos encontrados son de humano y los otros tres corresponden a animales bovinos y porcinos.

    Dijo que el fragmento de hueso de la holandesa es de una costilla que coinciden con el ADN de los padres de Kris Kremers.

    La funcionaria judicial manifestó que los resultados de las pruebas serán llevados a Chiriquí para continuar con las investigaciones.

    El análisis de ADN a los huesos son del segundo hallazgo encontrado en la cordillera de Bocas del Toro y Chiriquí.



    http://www.critica.com.pa/notas/1758....VUssfXFc.dpuf

    Only a bone corresponds to the Dutch, as DNA
    Pittí explained that three of the skeletal remains found are human and the other three corresponding to bovine and porcine animals.

    August 15
    16:09
    Only a bone corresponds to the Dutch, as DNA

    Public Ministry officials provide details of the results of DNA found in bones bony ridge Chirquí and Bocas del Toro × relating to the case of the Dutch.

    The Prosecutor of Chiriqui, Bethsaida Pittí, accompanied by an expert of the Institute of Legal Medicine (IMEL) confirmed that the six bone fragments analyzed, only one corresponds to the Dutch Kris Kremers according to the results of the DNA test.

    Pittí explained that three of the skeletal remains found are human and the other three correspond to bovine and porcine animals.

    He said that the bone fragment of Dutch is a rib that match the DNA of the parents of Kris Kremers.

    The judicial official said the test results will be taken to Chiriqui to continue research.

    DNA analysis of the bones found are the second discovery in the mountains of Chiriqui and Bocas del Toro.

    translated with:
    https://translate.google.nl/#es/en

    lol.baru send a same source ...

    Ντιναμό Ζάγκρεμπ

  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DINAMO ZG View Post
    I wondered how anthropologists could determine that the bones didn't belong to the Dutch girls.
    Well, they couldn't.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindengracht View Post
    I wondered how anthropologists could determine that the bones didn't belong to the Dutch girls.
    Well, they couldn't.

    I also wonder what happened to the broken leg that was mentioned:

    http://www.prensa.com/uhora/locales/...landesa/375873

    A la vez, dijo desconocer la procedencia de la información difundida por algunos medios de comunicación que publicaban que en este segundo grupo de huesos no se había identificado ninguno perteneciente a las víctimas.

    Por su parte, el jefe del Laboratorio Biomolecular del Instituto de Medicina Legal y Ciencias Forenses (Imelfc), Diomedes Trejos, explicó que entre el grupo de restos óseos recuperados por un grupo de indígenas existían huesos correspondientes a ganado bovino, porcino, uno del radio del brazo de un infante y un cráneo de un varón.

    Translation:

    At the same time, (Pittí) said she was unaware of the source of the information disseminated by some media outlets that published that in this second set of bones no identification had been made of any bone belonging to the victims.

    Meanwhile, the head of the Laboratory of Biomolecular Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences (Imelfc), Diomedes Trejos said that among the group of skeletal remains recovered by a group of Indians were bones corresponding to cattle, swine, one radius of the arm of an infant and a skull of a male.

    BBM

  8. #8
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    DUTCH FORENSIC EXPERTS WILL RE-EXAMINE THE REMAINS, PARENTS WANT CERTAINTY


    http://elsiglo.com/cronica-roja/hall...ndesa/23796463

    Enrique Arrocha, abogado de los padres de Kris Kremers, denunció en día anteriores una posible manipulación de evidencia.

    Tenemos información que ‘están plantando huesos y pruebas, algo que es un delito y que nos preocupa’, sostuvo.

    El abogado de la familia Kremers, Enrique Arrocha, dijo que traerá a expertos forenses de Holanda y privados de Panamá, para realizar nuevas pruebas de ADN a los primeros y segundos restos encontrados en el río Culubre y entregados por los indígenas de Alto Romero, en Valle Risco, Bocas del Toro.

    ‘Los padres quieren la certeza de los resultados, por lo que traeremos a expertos de afuera para que nos colaboren en la investigación. Para eso, la próxima semana nos trasladaremos al sector de Alto Romero’, dijo el letrado.

    Translation:



    Enrique Arrocha, attorney for the parents of Kris Kremers, reported in previous days possible tampering of evidence.

    I have information that 'bones and evidence are being planted, which is a crime and we are concerned,' he said.


    The lawyer for the family Kremers, Enrique Arrocha said that he will bring forensic experts from Holland and privates from Panama, for new DNA tests on the first and second remains found near the river Culubre and delivered by the Indians of Alto Romero in Valle Risco, Bocas del Toro.

    'Parents want the certainty of the results, therefore we will bring outside experts so that they cooperate with us in the investigation. To do so, next week we will move to the sector of Alto Romero,' the lawyer said.


    BBM



    IMHO, Lawyer and the Kremers Family are on a clash course with the Public Prosecutor.

    So far, the lawyer has criticised the Prosecutor's MO, according to him they need to go with experts to the location of the findings end examine everything and take pictures, this is their legal obligation.
    The lawyer has called on assistance and intervention of the Dutch Ambassador and State to speed up the transfer of results that are alledgedly ready but do not reach the Prosecutor's Office.
    And now, the DNA of the remains will be tested again, by expert outsiders.



    BOOM!



    Last edited by ZaZara; 08-16-2014 at 08:42 AM.

  9. #9
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    Here my updated map with the latest findings (click on it for a larger version), with the help of local guides Baru and Feliciano:


  10. #10
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    I read about another, 4th, large phonecompany that is active in Panama, AT & T. I was not aware of that.
    If one looks up their cellphone/data/fixed traffic coverage on the following map:

    http://www.att.com/maps/wireless-cov...id=EcChJ_Gfyrq

    and one would type "Boquete" you can see the company has coverage for quite a bit past the CD...

    Well..

    If one subscriber from phone company A has no cellphone coverage in that area, but there is a company B (lets say here 'AT&T') that does have network coverage, than 112/911 traffic is passed on free of charge by company B and onwards. Panama 911 did not receive a call however...

    If Kris and / or Lisanne did try to call, or called on the other side of the CD,not just to 112/911 and not just phone but also possible Whatsapp and SMS message data traffic,... well ..

    - when not done so allready that is.....and
    - if available at all

    maybe one can ask AT&T with a written injunction to promptly deliver now

    - all call details to/from the cellphone numbers from Kris and Lisanne, fixed and mobile plus data traffic
    - between March 15 and April 13 2014

    and hand them over asap. to the Panamanian prosecutor, Panamanina police DIJ, the Dutch police, Dutch NFi, plus the family Laywer Arrocha.....
    Last edited by Aernout; 08-16-2014 at 01:15 PM.


  11. #11
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    @Aernout

    is it not possible that you near water or river have phone connection,because you are on the open area?or i´m wrong?

    Ντιναμό Ζάγκρεμπ

  12. #12
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    ..mm.. I would say it depends how far away is the mast/antenna site from your handy, and what is the specific ground to antenna distance measured in meters/miles.

    The cell coverage from a tower antenna has a form of a wide ellipse to a cirkel form. The next cirkel overlaps the first for about 1/8 th of that cirkel. But, of course at the end of the network reach, that is no longer so, there you have half a cirkel sort of reach...

    The antenna's in the Boquete mountain area are all up on a mountain in this case as far as I understand it to be. I have no idea how far down goes the bottom of the coverage cirkel, as in to a or all river beds.

    If e.g. the total cirkel has a surface of about lets say 30 miles you might wanna reckon with 15 miles downward reach, but I am totally guessing here, you would have to ask the companies' antenna technician.

    It also depends on things like the brand and type of antenna, network transmission frequency used, amount of traffic on the antenna, amount of subscribers, amount of joint usage at certain peak times, traffic types involved, frequency bandwith, weather conditions, etc etc. yadiya...

    I do not think trees make a lot of difference, rock and concrete certainly do. Any open space as high up and as close up to the antenna, like a paddock on the montain side, a slope, a wide river bed upstream, etc. will IMO certainly help.. Best is being in clear view of the antenna of course...

    See: Google, mobile antenna cell phone coverage cirkel

    scroll to 1/3 of this page:
    http://searchengineland.com/cell-pho...-the-map-14790

    or see:

    https://activecaptain.com/articles/m...oostSignal.php

    http://www.hightechforum.org/28-year...phone-service/

    somewhat older:

    http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/ee/wajih...cture%2002.pdf

    hope this helps...
    Last edited by Aernout; 08-16-2014 at 01:16 PM.

  13. #13
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    thanks Aernout

    these poor girls had everything against himself:
    they got lost, (maybe)without phone battery, without phone reception, have not encountered anyone in the woods to help them...

    Ντιναμό Ζάγκρεμπ

  14. #14
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    AT&T is not a carrier who operate in Panama, in Panama actually work 4 companies, cable & wireless(masmobil) , digicell, Claro, telefonica(movistar).
    It can to be that AT&T is partner of C&W and they show the coverage of the C&W network.
    If you look by movistar they offer a triangulation tracking service. http://www.movistar.com.pa/onsite/em...ocalizacin/45/

    http://movistar.workingdaytracker.com/

  15. #15
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    mm.. yeah, kinda confusing, I found this...

    http://www.att.com/travelguide/cover...L=591&MNC=CING

    than you can come to cellphone coverage maps, e.g. UMTS/3G (but they date back to 2008)

    http://maps.mobileworldlive.com/netw...d=8574&cid=209

    and you can zoom in on Boquete.

    So Baru, would C&W and Claro offer the best coverage?
    Last edited by Aernout; 08-16-2014 at 03:42 PM.

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