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  1. #1
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    Norway - Lena Paulsen, 10, & Stine Sorstronen, 8, slain, Baneheia, 19 May 2000

    A Norwegian double child rapist and murderer has been out on leave without guards, after serving just 14 years of a 21-year sentence. The crime is particularly horrendous as Stine Sofie Sørstrønen, 8, had to watch her friend, Lena Sløgedal Paulsen, being raped and stabbed, and the killers arguing over who would kill her, before she died.

    The young girls had gone missing while swimming at Baneheia and their bodies were found two days later.

    Viggo Kristiansen, 35, was found to be the chief instigator of the May, 2000 killings, and received the 'supreme' penalty of 21 years. His friend Jan Helge Andersen, 33, was only convicted of the murder of Stine and received 19 years. He has already had frequent day leave and is likely to be released very soon.

    Kristiansen's lawyer, Arvid Sjødin, is currently trying to get his case reheard, saying that there's been a miscarriage of justice.

    Ada Sofie Austegard, mother of Stine, said it was awful to hear the news, although she expected it. She wishes Norway had life sentences:

    "I'm afraid that someone else will get the same fate as Stine and Lena."

    http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...fari%26hl%3Den

    Photo link: http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...fari%26hl%3Den
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  2. #2
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    I will never understand these lenient sentences, these men tortured, raped 2 little girls, they should be in prison for the rest of their lives. Why was he out on leave?! They deserve to be imprisoned for their whole lifetime because of what they've done and because they are a danger to children everywhere. These type of crimes cannot be repaid to society just by a 19 yr sentence. jmo
    .

  3. #3

    Double child rapist and murderer out on leave after just 14 years.

    If I read this correctly he received the maximum sentence possible in Norwegian criminal law. If this is so your question should be why the maximum sentence is 21 years - credits.

    The answer has to do with socialist criminology. You will find the same pattern in all Western European countries. The premise seems to be that crime is the result of poverty or some other bad environment, therefore everyone is rehabilitable if you change their environment and therefore maximum sentences shouldn't be too high to allow rehabilitation.

    That's my interpretation, maybe a defender could do it better.

    Anyway it's obviously wrong. I think there is much to admire about Western European criminal justice but they plainly have a blind spot when it comes to psychopaths and violent sex criminals. I've seen cases of outright serial killers given only a few years. (I've seen this in South America as well for the same reason.)

    I think even the harshest critic of the US system should acknowledge that a broken clock is right twice a day and the US at least does a better job with keeping the worst criminals behind bars.
    Last edited by bgbonzo; 08-25-2014 at 04:24 PM. Reason: first post was a test

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgbonzo View Post
    If I read this correctly he received the maximum sentence possible in Norwegian criminal law. If this is so your question should be why the maximum sentence is 21 years - credits.

    The answer has to do with socialist criminology. You will find the same pattern in all Western European countries. The premise seems to be that crime is the result of poverty or some other bad environment, therefore everyone is rehabilitable if you change their environment and therefore maximum sentences shouldn't be too high to allow rehabilitation.

    That's my interpretation, maybe a defender could do it better.

    Anyway it's obviously wrong. I think there is much to admire about Western European criminal justice but they plainly have a blind spot when it comes to psychopaths and violent sex criminals. I've seen cases of outright serial killers given only a few years. (I've seen this in South America as well for the same reason.)

    I think even the harshest critic of the US system should acknowledge that a broken clock is right twice a day and the US at least does a better job with keeping the worst criminals behind bars.
    Just curious ..... Do socialist societies have low recidivism rates to back up their rationale?

    Oh, and ....

    to Websleuths, Bgbonzo!
    "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."
    - Henry David Thoreau

  5. #5
    Thanks for the welcome.

    I don't know but I don't think one could generalize very well because the patterns and demographics of crime can vary so much from country to country.

    But I would guess that yes, in general the countries that make rehabilitation a high priority do get some good results from that but on the other hand they wind up releasing some people that reoffend that would not have been released in the US.

    I think in the US the problem is not so much that we're too hard on crime but the reason that we're relatively hard on crime - because it goes over so well with voters who basically love to punish. For example three strikes laws.

    In most countries the voters, if there are voters, don't really have much to do with criminal justice policies.

    Maybe it would be better if we gave more discretion to wardens and case officers and judges to reduce sentences while at the same time not being squeamish about giving effective life sentences for people that seem to be incorrigible.

    Just my thoughts from having read a lot of crime stories in the US and abroad.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgbonzo View Post
    Thanks for the welcome.

    I don't know but I don't think one could generalize very well because the patterns and demographics of crime can vary so much from country to country.

    But I would guess that yes, in general the countries that make rehabilitation a high priority do get some good results from that but on the other hand they wind up releasing some people that reoffend that would not have been released in the US.

    I think in the US the problem is not so much that we're too hard on crime but the reason that we're relatively hard on crime - because it goes over so well with voters who basically love to punish. For example three strikes laws.

    In most countries the voters, if there are voters, don't really have much to do with criminal justice policies.

    Maybe it would be better if we gave more discretion to wardens and case officers and judges to reduce sentences while at the same time not being squeamish about giving effective life sentences for people that seem to be incorrigible.

    Just my thoughts from having read a lot of crime stories in the US and abroad.
    Thank you for your perspective!

    I waver a lot on my stance toward the U.S. system of criminal justice. I think it largely stems from my work with cognitively delayed populations. I worked with many who were extremely delayed -- no verbal skills and few functional skills -- and some who also had aggressive behaviors. I wrote habilitation plans for my clients and oversaw behavioral plans, too. Program plans were based on the notion that the clients -- many of whom had grown up in crowded institutions where they had to, for the most part, fend for their own survival -- had never learned proper adaptive behaviors to begin with. It was a struggle convincing some staff members that the program plans worked, even though there had been noticeable (but gradual) progress over time.

    My experience made me wonder why criminals aren't also addressed with the same premise in mind -- that they've never learned appropriate adaptive behaviors for functioning in society. But, there have been cases here on Websleuths that have made me lean in the opposite direction. Some criminals seem to resist rehabilitation and lack a conscience. They learn to manipulate the justice system so gain their freedom, only to strike again. For some, I think the only solution would be a prison in the middle of the desert or on a deserted island surrounded by shark-infested waters, where prisoners would have to grow their own food (or have it dropped from a helicopter) and would have to fend for themselves.

    I wish there was a way of predicting which criminals can be rehabilitated. I wish there was even a test that could determine in childhood which people don't have consciences and that there was some way to remedy their condition before they commit a crime.
    "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."
    - Henry David Thoreau

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgbonzo View Post
    If I read this correctly he received the maximum sentence possible in Norwegian criminal law. If this is so your question should be why the maximum sentence is 21 years - credits.

    The answer has to do with socialist criminology. You will find the same pattern in all Western European countries. The premise seems to be that crime is the result of poverty or some other bad environment, therefore everyone is rehabilitable if you change their environment and therefore maximum sentences shouldn't be too high to allow rehabilitation.

    That's my interpretation, maybe a defender could do it better.

    Anyway it's obviously wrong. I think there is much to admire about Western European criminal justice but they plainly have a blind spot when it comes to psychopaths and violent sex criminals. I've seen cases of outright serial killers given only a few years. (I've seen this in South America as well for the same reason.)

    I think even the harshest critic of the US system should acknowledge that a broken clock is right twice a day and the US at least does a better job with keeping the worst criminals behind bars.
    Welcome. I think Europe's handling of criminals is extremely misguided.

    Anyways, scum like them should be 6 feet under.




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  8. #8
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    Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. So they are doing something right.


    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...omething-right

    I don't agree with some of the lenient sentences, but still, European countries have much lower murder rates than in the US.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarahlou View Post
    Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. So they are doing something right.


    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...omething-right

    I don't agree with some of the lenient sentences, but still, European countries have much lower murder rates than in the US.
    They also have a more homogeneous population.




    HMS Hood
    Mighty Hood
    Pennant Number: 51
    Motto: Ventis Secundis ("With Favourable Winds")
    May 15, 1920-May 24, 1941

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgbonzo View Post
    Thanks for the welcome.

    I don't know but I don't think one could generalize very well because the patterns and demographics of crime can vary so much from country to country.

    But I would guess that yes, in general the countries that make rehabilitation a high priority do get some good results from that but on the other hand they wind up releasing some people that reoffend that would not have been released in the US.

    I think in the US the problem is not so much that we're too hard on crime but the reason that we're relatively hard on crime - because it goes over so well with voters who basically love to punish. For example three strikes laws.

    In most countries the voters, if there are voters, don't really have much to do with criminal justice policies.

    Maybe it would be better if we gave more discretion to wardens and case officers and judges to reduce sentences while at the same time not being squeamish about giving effective life sentences for people that seem to be incorrigible.

    Just my thoughts from having read a lot of crime stories in the US and abroad.
    Welcome!
    I would like to know the recidivism rates in Europe just for sexual crimes, particularly those against children. Because I think those offenders are supposed to be particularly intractable. I'd like to know the reporting rates too - I saw a statement from Portuguese authorities once that 'there are no pedophiles in Portugual'. It's beyond my language skills to find them though, even if they exist.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2009-19/page22




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