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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gitana1 View Post
    Islam is just not the problem. It's a culture problem. The religion is no more violent than Judiasm or Old Testament Christianity. I know plenty of Muslims who are totally normal, moderate people. I went to a mosque for a funeral and a couple times for other things related to college. Sermons were very similar to what we hear in church.

    This is is a complex issue. We are dealing with tribal cultures that in some places has not advanced in the last 2000 years like western culture has. We are also dealing with a significant change in economic gender roles and the economy, plus destabilization and wars which leads to a social and gender identity crisis as well as a loss of a feeling of purpose, extreme loss of the ability to provide, to be men, to have jobs, to be treated as humans. That results in revolution sometimes- either the Arab spring type youth movement that focus on autonomy, the economy and rights or to a regression to extreme fundamentalism based on a romanticism of the past Islamic empire. So they try to recreate that.

    Imagine prople who who feel lost and unsure who find hope in the fantasy of a world with specific roles and rules that everyone abides by, no ambiguity, no confusion. It is the same with alienated white Christian terrorists who joined the Christian Identity Movement like Timothy mcveigh. The difference is our society is more stable and evolved so we have less home-grown Christian terrorists. If things were different though...

    None of that changes the fact that we are facing a clear and present danger due to ideology. We have a problem. And it is significant.
    The people choose to not move forward...

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    So every terrorist is mentally unstable?
    Going out on a limb here, but I tend to think anybody who independently chooses to take another person's life for any reason other than self protection is not exactly normal or mentally stable.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblio View Post
    Going out on a limb here, but I tend to think anybody who independently chooses to take another person's life for any reason other than self protection is not exactly normal or mentally stable.
    semantics - looking for an out. Mentally stable is not a legal out of murder.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    semantics - looking for an out. Mentally stable is not a legal out of murder.
    No, it's not. I don't mean insane when I say mentally unstable. I mean inability to put together in one's mind the things needed to restrain oneself from acting out on any extreme impulse, or to have the skewed reasoning that leads one to think it's acceptable to commit such acts.

  5. #50
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    Oklahoma beheading: Muslim religious leaders say Moore suspect visited local mosque (Daily Oklahoman)

    • Senior leaders of a prominent Oklahoma City mosque said several people remember seeing the suspect in the Vaughan Foods attack and beheading at their house of worship and described him as being “quiet,” “low-key” and “odd.”

    the story at link above

  6. #51
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    And oh -- btw, the UPS assassin who killed two former colleagues Tuesday was (wait for it) a white Christian.

    Pastor: UPS gunman was 'troubled' over work (AP)

    Kerry Joe Tesney and his wife have two children, and they've been members at NorthPark Baptist Church since 2003, said the church's pastor, Bill Wilks.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    And oh -- btw, the UPS assassin who killed two former colleagues Tuesday was (wait for it) a white Christian.

    Pastor: UPS gunman was 'troubled' over work (AP)
    So was that guy who went into a church to shoot that doctor several years back.

    Oh, and speaking of skewed religion, in the last month or so, "christian" groups went into a church of another denomination and yelled obscenities at the congregants and even plastered gory pictures up to the School windows chanting horrific things.

    Islam is not a threat. Sorry, it's only a religion. The problem lies in the wrong ways the wrong people interpret the Koran. Sadly, other wrong people do the same thing with the Bible and the Torah.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfgodot View Post
    And oh -- btw, the UPS assassin who killed two former colleagues Tuesday was (wait for it) a white Christian.

    Pastor: UPS gunman was 'troubled' over work (AP)
    But not because co-workers wouldn't convert.

  9. #54
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    But not because co-workers wouldn't convert.
    Do we definitively know this was his motivation? Seems sort of early in the game to make such a loaded assertion.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblio View Post
    Do we definitively know this was his motivation? Seems sort of early in the game to make such a loaded assertion.
    Really? why is it "sort of early" after looking at his facebook, hearing the attempts at conversion, watching the news with ISIS' call for lone wolf attacks and you know, beheading? You think it's too soon to consider what is known?

  12. #57
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    Guardian relies on AP account, but with usual interesting reader comments at the end worth a look:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...orker-beheaded

    aethelraed
    27 September 2014 12:18am

    Maybe the right wing nut cases on this thread should do a little research before wetting themselves over the "liberal media" not mentioning the Muslim connection. Every story I have read online in major U.S. journals, mentions that the attacker had been trying to convert his co-workers to Islam.

    Stop hallucinating.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    Really? why is it "sort of early" after looking at his facebook, hearing the attempts at conversion, watching the news with ISIS' call for lone wolf attacks and you know, beheading? You think it's too soon to consider what is known?
    Wait, so there is documentation that he tried to convince these two specific women to convert to Islam? Like he posted about his frustrations that they wouldn't join his faith?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblio View Post
    Wait, so there is documentation that he tried to convince these two specific women to convert to Islam? Like he posted about his frustrations that they wouldn't join his faith?
    So, its ok to guess and take into consideration everything except his muslim ranting on his facebook page and the beheading (something that at this particular time is well known to be an islamic method of terror) - got it, glad you're so open minded on this one. Poor misunderstood guy, he must have just had a bad day and snapped. End of story and thread I suppose.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    Really? why is it "sort of early" after looking at his facebook, hearing the attempts at conversion, watching the news with ISIS' call for lone wolf attacks and you know, beheading? You think it's too soon to consider what is known?
    Oh, and I'm totally not picking on you. I just think that his previous record of poor judgment and violence combined with the fact he was just fired had a whole lot more to do with it. Islam or not, it seems he was a ticking time bomb.

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