MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #25

The fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager Saturday by a police officer in a St. Louis suburb came after a struggle for the officer’s gun, police officials said Sunday, in an explanation that met with outrage and skepticism in the largely African-American community.The killing of the youth, Michael Brown, 18, ignited protests on Saturday and Sunday in Ferguson, Mo., a working-class suburb of about 20,000 residents. Hundreds of people gathered at the scene of the shooting to question the police and to light candles for Mr. Brown, who was planning to begin college classes on Monday.
Mr. Brown’s stepfather, Louis Head, held a cardboard sign that said, “Ferguson police just executed my unarmed son.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/us/police-say-mike-brown-was-killed-after-struggle-for-gun.html


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...own-St-Louis&p=10861113&posted=1#post10861113

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-teen-Michael-Brown-2&p=10867195#post10867195

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Please continue here:

eace:

Please try to keep your focused on what has happened in this case. The protestors have a right to protest. We may not all agree with some of the things that are going on but as long as we continue to discuss it in a responsible manner this thread will stay open.

Do not keep bringing racial issues into the discussion. The DOJ is there within the community and hopefully when they finish their reports we may have a clearer idea regarding any police brutality or lack of it. That discussion can take place at that time.

You have all done a good job of keeping up with what is going on with the protesting. All views are welcome as long as you all abide by the rules here at WS. We all want to know what happened and we want the truth.

Thanks, Lambchop

Klood-N said:

Has the video of the contractors reacting to the shooting of Michael Brown been shown to the grand jury? “It will be if it hasn’t.”

Are reports that Darren Wilson testified to the grand jury true? “I usually say, ‘I’ll neither confirm nor deny,’ but I don’t argue with that report. I regret it was made.”

Some democrats have said they won't vote for Stenger because of your mutual support. Do you think your handling of this case is hurting your party?

"I have to worry about what's right and wrong. I can't worry about the politics. When a prosecutor starts worrying about politics, he should be run out of town."

From STL American Q & A w McCulloch.

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Bringing over from previous thread

The route down S. Florissant from the police station to Faraci's Pizza passes right by Ferguson Brewery Co., which was "occupied" two weeks ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_b28e2e61-b9f6-5593-b439-23702053c818.html

The livestream Thursday night showed the loud protest group stopping and peering in the windows of a restaurant, probably Ferguson Brewery again, but passing on when no attempt was made to interfere with their coming in. I wish someone inside of Faraci or FBC at the time had video pointed outside showing what customers saw and heard. It was frightening imo.

I think the best thing this pizza owner can do is if the protestors show up, make them a couple of sheet pizzas and tell them he wants no problems but that he has a right to protect his business. That he has no issue with them personally but if they threaten his business he will take that personally. They can't argue with that because he is showing them support by giving them the pizzas. Just what I would do.

LambChop said:

I think the best thing this pizza owner can do is if the protestors show up, make them a couple of sheet pizzas and tell them he wants no problems but that he has a right to protect his business. That he has no issue with them personally but if they threaten his business he will take that personally. They can't argue with that because he is showing them support by giving them the pizzas. Just what I would do.

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I doubt they'd accept Gun Guy's free pizzas, but I can imagine them coming in and occupying all the tables and refusing to leave on their own.

LambChop said:

I think the best thing this pizza owner can do is if the protestors show up, make them a couple of sheet pizzas and tell them he wants no problems but that he has a right to protect his business. That he has no issue with them personally but if they threaten his business he will take that personally. They can't argue with that because he is showing them support by giving them the pizzas. Just what I would do.

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Boy, I wouldn't! The rioters clearly think they own the streets (they've said so) and have been blocking and intimidating business owners. I'd think they'd take that as a payoff they're entitled to, then expect other places to give them free stuff to keep the peace, or expect this biz owner to continue giving them free food. All over twitter the last two days, they've amped up their requests for donations to support the cause and bail people out. To give $ or products to keep the peace reminds me too much of gang or organized crime payoffs.

bettybaby00 said:

Not a smart move IMO. These people are latching onto everything they can in order to support the narrative. Throwing their stuff out feeds right into it.

In the last thread someone posted their experience with this type of LE action, and I was left with the impression the stuff is boxed up and held onto until someone comes to claim their belongings. I would think this is a typical operating procedure.

What are the chances the contents of the dumpster are staged? Meaning, do we know this is actually the dumpster behind the PD? Or is this some random dumpster where they threw out stuff that was intended to be discarded anyway?

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I think two separate things may be being confused. From what I've read, this was their signs they left as litter after the protest last night, not their encampment supplies. If you leave things lying on the ground, that's littering, and it will be removed. Laws need to be enforced.

Klood-N said:

Boy, I wouldn't! The rioters clearly think they own the streets and have been blocking and intimidating business owners. I'd think they'd take that as a payoff they're entitled to, then expect other places to give them free stuff to keep the peace, or expect this biz owner to continue giving them free food. All over twitter the last two days, they've amped up their requests for donations to support the cause and bail people out. To give $ or products to keep the peace reminds me too much of gang or organized crime payoffs.

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ITA! I would not, however, begrudge the owner from faxing a "coupon" to the FPD that says half price pizza & beer to off duty FPD who can show their badge.

chefmom said:

ITA! I would not, however, begrudge the owner from faxing a "coupon" to the FPD that says half price pizza & beer to off duty FPD who can show their badge.

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:yourock:

They aren’t arresting us..yet.

The police said that Knowles isn’t answering questions today. #ferguson

The office just closed. We’re going to see if knowles comes out. #ferguson

wonder if we should get there earlier and block entrances?
@wyzechef

Again, could be a diversion. They said Kiener Park and went to Busch. Said football & went to baseball. I'm sure LE proceeds with caution and keeps an eye out.

chefmom said:

ITA! I would not, however, begrudge the owner from faxing a "coupon" to the FPD that says half price pizza & beer to off duty FPD who can show their badge.

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Oh how smart would that be!!!ETA:

I still don't understand, why are the protestors not happy with this going to grand jury and waiting for their ruling? I would think that no matter how upset you are over what happened, that letting the justice system handle it would be the only acceptable way to move forward. It's known too that if the GJ doesn't indict that all the evidence will be released. I just don't get why they can be so certain in their position without knowing all the evidence. I know there are examples of LE doing things that are completely wrong, but what more than evidence and a jury could you want?

Klood-N said:

I think two separate things may be being confused. From what I've read, this was their signs they left as litter after the protest last night, not their encampment supplies. If you leave things lying on the ground, that's littering, and it will be removed. Laws need to be enforced.

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Abandoned property is abandoned property. If your car breaks down somewhere in someone's parking lot - they can have it towed. Same with signs...even if they were stacked in a pile. If there was somebody around they would have probably been given the opportunity to take them away. Same goes for garage sale signs on telephone poles, or "Lost dog" signs. They can be thrown away. They are considered abandoned property. JMO, JMO, JMO.

Klood-N said:

I think two separate things may be being confused. From what I've read, this was their signs they left as litter after the protest last night, not their encampment supplies. If you leave things lying on the ground, that's littering, and it will be removed. Laws need to be enforced.

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Oh I agree laws need to be enforced, but it seems to be random which laws are going to be enforced. They should be enforcing all the laws...

LE is really damned either way, b/c even though the signs can be considered trash, they will clearly run with the "the police are throwing out our stuff narrative." And those that are sympathetic are buying into it hook, line and sinker.

Klood-N said:

Boy, I wouldn't! The rioters clearly think they own the streets and have been blocking and intimidating business owners. I'd think they'd take that as a payoff they're entitled to, then expect other places to give them free stuff to keep the peace, or expect this biz owner to continue giving them free food. All over twitter the last two days, they've amped up their requests for donations to support the cause and bail people out. To give $ or products to keep the peace reminds me too much of gang or organized crime payoffs.

Click to expand...

The point is, protests may feel he had no right to pull the gun and may use that as an excuse. The owner, who apparently had cash out from closing, felt threatened by what he perceived as a mob. He had a right to protect himself if he felt threatened regardless of who he is. It is the same with a police officer. That is that part that seems to be at issue here with the protestors and their perception of what they feel is mistreatment. This is how it appears to me. We don't have all the information but when you see it live when it is happening you get a clear sense of why there are differences in what people view as fair.

This community does need a lot of work but they are the ones who have to take the initiative. Protestors seem to think they can just take over a piece of property without permits, camp out without permits, leave their signs behind without permission. Property owners can give permission for protestors to use their property while they protest. They can't however give permission to protestors to break laws regarding health department regulations. I think that came from the DOJ and LE was given permission to clean up and get rid of anything that was left on the site.

If you plan to protest you better know what the laws are and what will or will not be permitted. Otherwise it is LE that has to enforce those laws and you have to respect that. If you can't, then you are part of the problem. We all know that is a fact. We have to follow rules to keep order in society. It's why laws exist.

If they are truly peaceful there shouldn't be a problem. If they threaten to close down his business he has nothing to lose by giving away the pizza, the cost of which he can write off. They will either refuse it or take it and move on. They are angry he had the gun which is his right under the law if he feels threatened. To know he has a gun and is willing to protect himself is the one reason they should NOT be going down to protest in front of his restaurant. Obviously their threat to boycott did not work. Everyone loves pizza. jmo

IMO, their understanding of how the world works is so skewed. They believe they own the street, own the police department building, police are their staff and must do what they say, laws and rules don't apply to them, etc. if I took my things and left them lying on a street, on a sidewalk, on a lot, in a parking lot, I'd expect them to be removed.

Dogface said:

Oh how smart would that be!!!ETA:

I still don't understand, why are the protestors not happy with this going to grand jury and waiting for their ruling? I would think that no matter how upset you are over what happened, that letting the justice system handle it would be the only acceptable way to move forward. It's known too that if the GJ doesn't indict that all the evidence will be released. I just don't get why they can be so certain in their position without knowing all the evidence. I know there are examples of LE doing things that are completely wrong, but what more than evidence and a jury could you want?

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I will preface this statement with "This is only my opinion." Lol! I think the problem is this: The protesters who are actually trying to get some real reform and/or change and/or progress for the community ARE actually working with the right people as we speak to affect change within that community. They realize the truth of the situation may not be what was first represented to the public, and are only using the incident to open a dialogue about the problems that they face there. The protesters who are yelling in the streets for OW's dead body, and tweeting threats to business owners are, IMO, being kept in a state of misguided anger and disruption, and being used like puppets, by a few instigators who have a very specific agenda that has nothing to do with, OW, MB, or the town of Ferguson. These instigators do not care if they hurt the town or it's people as long as they get what they want in the end. As I started this post with, this is just my opinion.

Klood-N said:

They aren’t arresting us..yet.

The police said that Knowles isn’t answering questions today. #ferguson

The office just closed. We’re going to see if knowles comes out. #ferguson

wonder if we should get there earlier and block entrances?
@wyzechef

Again, could be a diversion. They said Kiener Park and went to Busch. Said football & went to baseball. I'm sure LE proceeds with caution and keeps an eye out.

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there were only about 20 outside the Cards game protesting last week