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  1. #46
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    Been thinking on this approach quite a bit. From a SAR perspective anyway (and at the risk of sounding cryptic whilst trying to remain respectful) perhaps we should try approaching several obstacles thus far encountered in the attempted location and recovery of Mr. Harrod, the old fashioned way.
    Here goes a scenario:

    Let's say (hypothetically) the 'Bank of Bob' has several branches. Some branches are open Monday to Friday, 9-5. Some have Saturday hours. Some are open late on Wednesday, some have full online capabilities, others are limited, and locations vary. You get the jist.
    For the sake of argument, let's say that there are 9 branches in the Bank of Bob. Two crimes are assumed to have been committed at one initial location (the main branch), and related crimes to those initial crimes may have been committed at other locations. For example, suppressed evidence of one crime committed at the main branch might be located at a third, fourth and/or fifth branch location, and evidence related to the second crime might be located at branches 6-9. Or any permutation thereof.

    Rather than blanket or umbrella, very specific SW's might be necessary for property relating to aspects of the assumed crime(s); for example, paper documents from branch three, electronic documents from branch 7, tangible objects from the main branch as well as branches two and four, person(s) from branch nine, etc.
    To obtain aformentioned SW's, a magistrate judge (or multiples, depending on district of location of branches) would need to be approached by federal LE or AG's office with either affadivit, sworn testimony, recorded testimony, or telephonic or other reliable electronic means- with evidence of a crime, contraband or fruits of a crime, property intended for use or used in committing a crime, or for a person who is being unlawfully restrained.....yes? (Random, but that last really bugs me as it pertains to a declaration of death... which I find infuriating and very telling....but that's neither here nor there I suppose.... just a personal gripe...)

    Anyway- physical searches of branches would be necessary in order to obtain aforementioned material as denoted on these hypothetical (and thus highly desired and informative) SW's. For example, a SW might be issued for safety deposit box # 2194 in the central vault at the main branch. In order to access that specific box, the grounds, the branch and the vault would have to be entered and exited- thus allowing visual, auditory, olfactory observation to those 'un'authorized areas as stated on the hypothetical SW.

    If ya'll have followed this bit of a ramble (thank you for your patience lol) then, well. Heck. We'd have quite a few more brushstrokes painted on that big picture, wouldn't we. And maybe we might find Mr. Harrod....or evidence of where he might have been beyond his last seen (the main branch location, kwim?)

    (Are ya'll with me, here? Or have I gone 'round the bend?)
    Last edited by Oriah; 10-09-2014 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #47
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    I think I followed most of your post, but not sure. I think it would involve LE pursuing the search warrants. Undoubtedly they have more knowledge (evidence) than we do. Did I get that right?

    Anyway, love this idea. Would Fontelle have to be the one "pushing" this? Would the police be put off by a bunch of assorted strangers (us) making such a request?

  3. #48
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    Yes, LE would have to do this. But maybe we could help a bit by organizing the branches for them, and what might be needed from each individual branch? Those locations that might fall into categories such as evidence of a crime, contraband, fruits of a crime, property used during commission of a crime, etc. Perhaps using a framework such as, say, a geneological tree- only instead of blood relatives, it would simply be physical locations where Bob's money went. An 'outline' for this hypothetical Bank of Bob. Mr. Harrod's residence being the main branch. Where did it grow out from there? And what grew out of those branches? We could add leaves if needed for categories. Make sense?

    (ETA: using known facts only!)

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Yes, LE would have to do this. But maybe we could help a bit by organizing the branches for them, and what might be needed from each individual branch? Those locations that might fall into categories such as evidence of a crime, contraband, fruits of a crime, property used during commission of a crime, etc. Perhaps using a framework such as, say, a geneological tree- only instead of blood relatives, it would simply be physical locations where Bob's money went. An 'outline' for this hypothetical Bank of Bob. Mr. Harrod's residence being the main branch. Where did it grow out from there? And what grew out of those branches? We could add leaves if needed for categories. Make sense?

    (ETA: using known facts only!)
    I'm definitely following you and I certainly hope LE has already collected evidence from the branches that don't require the cooperation of the family. I see the branch that handled mortgage loans as a good place to start. Have they verified that none of the documents had forged signatures? Have they determined who originated the documents? I realize we all believe it was the GS, but it's worth considering that he may have been used by greedy parents in get rich quick scheme (knowing that if caught, Bob would be least likely to prosecute him). The branch of tax reporting could be next. We know the daughter(s) were actively involved with that. If Bob was simply signing what he was handed, were there nefarious things going on behind his back? Surely, Fontelle has cooperated with LE but have they ever brought cadaver dogs to the house and property? Also, would there be some way to subpoena old records from area pawn shops to see who might have been secretly gaining funds in that manner? That's my start on the branches, let's keep adding more until we have justice for Bob.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Yes, LE would have to do this. But maybe we could help a bit by organizing the branches for them, and what might be needed from each individual branch? Those locations that might fall into categories such as evidence of a crime, contraband, fruits of a crime, property used during commission of a crime, etc. Perhaps using a framework such as, say, a geneological tree- only instead of blood relatives, it would simply be physical locations where Bob's money went. An 'outline' for this hypothetical Bank of Bob. Mr. Harrod's residence being the main branch. Where did it grow out from there? And what grew out of those branches? We could add leaves if needed for categories. Make sense?

    (ETA: using known facts only!)
    Yes, we could help organize.
    email me


    Long Lost Love: The Bob Harrod Story Disappeared/ID Network
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    Bob Harrod SAR


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  6. #51
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    travelbug, ITA, thank you. I put the mortgage loan branch right up at the top, where it splits into two. It's interesting, since as of right now, that trickles down and regrows back into the trunk. Ever see a tree like that? It's kind of ironic, but when I see trees like that occuring in nature, I always feel like they look like faces, or sillouettes of people. I have a feeling this one is going to be pretty interesting.
    I am super tied up this weekend, but will start posting some Bank of Bob areas of interest in Mr. Harrod's SAR forum next week.

    (Oh and as for scent k9's- whether they went through the residence at the time Mr. Harrod initially went missing (within 12-72 hours) has not been stated anywhere in MSM or by LE that I can find. But from a SAR perspective, whether they did or did not is not super important right now. What IS, is that there is still current access to the residence, and lots of other available areas. Since k9's are trained differently for aged scent, dogs used at this time would be different dogs entirely. They might could add a whole new perspective on what may have happened five years ago.

    Poor Mr. Harrod. Greed.
    Such an insipid poison to water with.
    Last edited by Oriah; 10-10-2014 at 09:13 AM.

  7. #52
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    Mucho gracias! A little extra organization never hurts to pass along to busy investigaters working cold cases, right?

  8. #53
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    Interesting all the resources being called up for missing Sally Estabrook, and where they are coming from, compared to those called up to search for Bob Harrod.

    'About 50 San Diego sheriff's search and rescue volunteers, members of the Border Patrol Search, Trauma and Rescue Unit and search and rescue members from San Bernardino, Riverside and Orange counties are searching a six-mile area around the campground off of Highway 79 near Coulter Ridge Road.'

    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/...r-in-law-camp/

    I don't begrudge those searches for Sally at all, of course. But I'm just saying the difference between her and Bob's case is interesting.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


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  9. #54
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    There were simply nothing like the searches for Sally, (who has dementia) for Bob. Why not? Daughter Julie said she thought he had dementia at first, so didn't he deserve the same resources?
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebel View Post
    There were simply nothing like the searches for Sally, (who has dementia) for Bob. Why not? Daughter Julie said she thought he had dementia at first, so didn't he deserve the same resources?
    IMO All of the conjecture from the family regarding cold feet and a change of heart made it difficult for LE to justify puttiing financial resources toward search and rescue efforts. Plus I believe they felt certain Bob was no longer alive after interacting with the sisters. They are quite transparent. jmoo


  11. #56
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    I'm sure that it also helps that Sally's family are very actively appealing for help. Her son in law's a member of the high profile band, Megadeath, and has been out there today, appealing for people to check their properties, and asking for help with the search.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
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  12. #57
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    A young, autistic Placentia teen went missing and was found safe before I even noticed yesterday. But that just goes to show what immediate, proper searches can achieve, as opposed to ones that are still being mulled over years after a person has disappeared.

    That odd residence/junked car lot place in Placentia - was that EVER properly searched for Bob? Checking trunks, etc? If not, I'd love to know why.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2009-19/page22

  13. #58
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    There is just a huge, huge problem with Bob's case that no amount of revising can solve. Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels told police he thought Bob may have been taken ill, when he disappeared from the home while son-in-law was out shopping. Son-in-law told police he'd seen a car driving up and down outside the house, that was so suspicious, he watched it for 10 minutes.

    Yet when Bob disappeared, he did nothing. Just locked up Bob's house, and went home.

    Yet later on, when son-in-law got back to the house he shares with wife Julie, Bob's youngest daughter...suddenly the message that Bob's missing gets out, and there's a lot of activity (thought not actually reporting him missing).

    It just begs the question, why was son-in-law so nonchalant with the worried housekeeper at Bob's house, when she was frightened at finding him missing; nonchalant when a suspicious car was cruising up and down outside; nonchalant when he left the house, with Bob still missing? But between Placentia and Running Springs, something made him go from nonchalant to worried enough to convey to his wife there was something wrong, and for her to start phoning around?

    What could have happened on that journey?
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
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  14. #59
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    IIRC, according to the Disappeared episode, JeM didn't remember the suspicious car driving up and down the street until 4 days after Bob's disappearance when he met with them that Friday. I wonder why SiL either didn't remember or wasn't concerned enough to report it on the day of Bob's disappearance, but waited 4 days.

    He allowed his wife to spend an unlimited amount of time, presumably alone, in Bob's home the day following his disappearance. I wonder why SiL was not in the least concerned about his wifes safety in Bob's home the day after his disappearance.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


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  15. #60
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    Also, his wife appealed on TV next day directly for 'Dad, come home' as though he'd left voluntarily and, media say, told them he was showing signs of dementia. But later on, starts posting about foul play.

    It just doesn't add up.

    Either way, I was catching up with the missing CT man Robert Hoagland case today, where people are concerned about the lack of activity. Not many media interviews from family - none from the last known person to have seen him - vigil only on his first year anniversary of being missing, and only about nine tweets a month on the twitter set up to help the search for him. Then I realized, compared to Bob's case, that's lots! (except the twitter of course;Bob's has slightly more than nine a month - or an hour ) Apart from Mrs Harrod's efforts though, and here, Bob's case really is unique in the lack of efforts to find him. I haven't seen anything quite like it, and I've been looking hard.
    We 'embraced' the missing Bob Harrod case as requested but 6 years on, are still waiting for further guidance


    Flyers/FB/Case Overview&Media Links
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