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  1. #1
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    JLM: Morgan Harrington/Fairfax Rape Victim - *Forensic Link* to MH #3

    I'm going to open a thread specifically for Morgan Harrington and the Fairfax rape victim since there is so much interest. Should DNA rule him out, we will close the thread. In the meantime, post relevant information here.

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  2. #2
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    JLM: Morgan Harrington/Fairfax Rape Victim - *Forensic Link* to MH #3

    Continue discussion here...

    Last edited by Harmony 2; 10-15-2014 at 09:43 AM.

  3. #3
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    July 1, 2010

    "A major break in the Morgan Harrington case tonight. Police say they can tie the abduction and murder of the Virginia Tech student to a sexual assault in Fairfax city. There's even a police sketch of a suspect.

    Investigators will only say that forensic evidence ties the suspect to Morgan Harrington's abduction and murder in Charlottesville. But Harrington's parents confirmed this afternoon it was DNA found on Morgan that matches the suspect in the Fairfax case."

    http://www.wlox.com/story/12742496/u...ase-in-fairfax

  4. #4
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    Can we have a ,"Jesse is framed "thread and have all of the information people feel supports that theory?

    That way everyone who has theories can be there and the rest of us can go with other info.

  5. #5
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    Subscribing. Thanks for all your hard work Bessie

  6. #6
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    Following.

  7. #7
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    <modsnip>


    Quote Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
    The DNA from Morgan's case was linked to the DNA from the Fairfax case because is was run through CODIS. If the DNA only came from the shirt, it would not even be allowed to be entered into CODIS! <modsnip>
    Where did I say the DNA only came from the shirt? I get that <modsnip>

    Quote Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
    It was found in a bush, on a public street. It could have been touched by any number of people walking by. In order to be entered into CODIS it must be forensic evidence.
    I am not sure what you mean. <modsnip> Forensics is a tool, a flawed one. It has been under scrutiny for at least a decade for lacking in scientific rigor. DNA profiling is yet one tool in an arsenal that can strengthen a case; yet it is just one contextual thing, and its strength or weakness in a case depends on other evidence. That was my over all point, <modsnip>

    Last I checked, CODIS is a database that collects genetic data for comparison and matching of chromosomal loci. It is a matching tool; it is not an infallible, omniscient forensic god. <modsnip> Maybe you do have some expertise on just how CODIS works and its statistical reliability. How searches can yield a wide range of results with verification of race being but one partial result. Since you are <modsnip> knowledgeable, please explain just how CODIS works, and all the kinds of data it yields. Also what exactly does a match include about a person?


    Quote Originally Posted by hambirg View Post

    A: Forensic (casework) DNA samples are considered crime scene evidence. To be classified as a forensic unknown record, [B]the DNA sample must be attributed to the putative perpetrator.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biom...dis-fact-sheet

    If that DNA came from a shirt that had been on a public street for gawd knows how long, it could not have been entered into the CODIS system. The only DNA on that shirt that has any evidentiary value is Morgan's. Any other DNA found on that shirt could not have been entered into CODIS, it could belong to anyone.
    Really? Read on...

    BBM Did I say that any and all DNA found only on that shirt was entered into CODIS? Genetic or DNA sampling must be taken from several places from evidence including both human tissue and things like clothing; then narrowed down to identify pertinent samples. So you are saying that only DNA taken from evidence at the crime scene is the only credible source? In addition to genetic interference from the shirt's locale outdoors, it likely had many traces from Morgan's friends or anyone else she had contact with prior to her disappearance. Genetic sampling is a process of exclusion and refinement. As for that shirt left in public, how could I be so dense...?

    In April, five months after its discovery, police announced that forensic evidence revealed that the Pantera t-shirt...did, in fact, belong to Morgan. That forensic evidence, says Barfield, was most likely DNA–- and, he says, a likely source for the match with the Fairfax case since extracting an assailant's DNA evidence from Morgan's decomposed remains, which were exposed to the elements for three months, would have been very difficult. (Like farm owner Bass, the UVA student who discovered the t-shirt had not yet been shown the composite sketch when a reporter showed it to him.)

    note: Barfield is a forensic expert and retired, local LEO who offers genetic profiling services.


    Quote Originally Posted by hambirg View Post

    Again, the DNA match was made through CODIS. Do you really believe that a partial sample that only showed that the perpetrator was an AA would even remotely qualify for CODIS? If what you suggest even was the case, then why weren't there thousands and thousands of matches? <modsnip>

    Sigh. Again, yes actually it can. I am not saying it provided only a partial match on race. Records can simply be used to establish more certainty of race. I said that it could have been used to verify race at minimum. We are not privy to what it established. <modsnip>
    Last edited by bessie; 10-15-2014 at 01:37 PM. Reason: partially snipped quoted post and response

  8. #8
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    We'll find out most likey in the near future whether a definite DNA match is achieved. LE afterall took a very good swab of JM's DNA which is the optimal collection method. They should have an excellent sample from the Fairfax victim. How good and clean MH"s samples are, don't know. But we certainly will know. Right now we are fighting about something that is going to be announced as facts . If it does turn out that JM is not a match, as Bessie states, this thread is done. it's over. Who said what that implied that isn't going to matter.

  9. #9
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    I thought it would be a good idea to move this over here so there is no confusion on this...plus that took me some time...lol

    While they raise awareness, the Murphys and Harringtons also want answers. DNA found on Morgan's body matched an open sexual assault case in Fairfax County, but the man's identity remains unknown.
    http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlin...228257121.html
    A man's DNA was found at the crime scene, which matched the DNA found during a rape investigation from 2005.
    http://www.turnto10.com/story/264312...lved-mysteries
    DNA found on Miss Harrington's body - discovered in a field three months after she disappeared while walking to a concert - was also identical to samples taken from a victim of sexual assault in 2005.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1344748/ha...to-2009-murder

    Morgan disappeared in 2009 and her body was found three months later, hidden at a remote farm. DNA evidence of her killer, found on her remains, has since been linked to a 2005 rape case of a Fairfax woman who survived the attack.
    - See more at: http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news/....l5xs2ecu.dpuf
    http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news/...nd-guilty.html
    If the forensic evidence that connects the two cases holds true, there is likely another victim linked to the suspect. Virginia State Police investigating Harrington's death in 2009 determined that DNA on her body connected the perpetrator to a 2005 sexual assault of a woman in Fairfax, Va.
    https://gma.yahoo.com/suspect-hannah...opstories.html
    Edited to add that we have gone over this topic 1000 times, somehow it always goes back to this. DNA that was on the Tshirt was Morgan's thats how they know it is indeed hers. Also his DNA might be on it as well, but as you see the DNA came from her body. LE is not going to come right out and say these things, Morgan's parents however, have said them many times that I remember, and I don't think that if your child died in such a manner you'd be making assumptions, you would know what happened to your child. You would/could never forget. JMO
    BBM bolded italicized and underlined Virginia State police for emphasis
    Edited yet again to add that a couple of my links in this post no longer work because I copy and pasted from post #1151 in the previous thread, but all links still work there.
    Last edited by Heroine; 10-15-2014 at 03:13 PM.

  10. #10
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    Following with interest....


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine View Post
    I thought it would be a good idea to move this over here so there is no confusion on this...plus that took me some time...lol


    http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlin...228257121.html

    http://www.turnto10.com/story/264312...lved-mysteries

    http://news.sky.com/story/1344748/ha...to-2009-murder

    - See more at: http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news/....l5xs2ecu.dpuf
    http://www.coloradonewsday.com/news/...nd-guilty.html

    https://gma.yahoo.com/suspect-hannah...opstories.html
    Edited to add that we have gone over this topic 1000 times, somehow it always goes back to this. DNA that was on the Tshirt was Morgan's thats how they know it is indeed hers. Also his DNA might be on it as well, but as you see the DNA came from her body. LE is not going to come right out and say these things, Morgan's parents however, have said them many times that I remember, and I don't think that if your child died in such a manner you'd be making assumptions, you would know what happened to your child. You would/could never forget. JMO
    BBM
    Edited yet again to add that a couple of my links in this post no longer work because I copy and pasted from post #1151 in the previous thread, but all links still work there.
    Thanks so much for posting this here!

  12. #12
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    I just will wait to hear about Morgan from LE, but jmo.
    Just my opinion, of course.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I just will wait to hear about Morgan from LE, but jmo.
    And you have every right to do so, but with all due respect I thought I would show you this as it does state VA state police...
    If the forensic evidence that connects the two cases holds true, there is likely another victim linked to the suspect. Virginia State Police investigating Harrington's death in 2009 determined that DNA on her body connected the perpetrator to a 2005 sexual assault of a woman in Fairfax, Va.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine View Post
    I thought it would be a good idea to move this over here so there is no confusion on this...plus that took me some time...lol

    <respectfully snipped>

    Thank you so much for this. I know how arduous the circular argument got over this particular nuance. It'll be fantastic to just point to this post re: the DNA when the issue resurfaces again
    Last edited by SassyFras; 10-15-2014 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Fixed Quote

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    July 1, 2010

    "A major break in the Morgan Harrington case tonight. Police say they can tie the abddition and murder of the Virginia Tech student to a sexual assault in Fairfax city. There's even a police sketch of a suspect.

    Investigators will only say that forensic evidence ties the suspect to Morgan Harrington's abduction and murder in Charlottesville. But Harrington's parents confirmed this afternoon it was DNA found on Morgan that matches the suspect in the Fairfax case."

    http://www.wlox.com/story/12742496/u...ase-in-fairfax
    What is with the dogged effort to assert absolute authority over the presence of forensic evidence linking cases? If you somehow have expertise, please become vetted through the forum, and share. Otherwise please stop using semantics to promote one source of DNA as the only credible and actual source used in these cases. It is simply not true and has been documented as such.

    I thought we are only to rely on official verifiable evidence or info released from LE. If LE says "forensic link" then it ends there. Why do we continue to volley the source of the DNA when we cannot ultimately know any more at this stage? The near obsessiveness in insisting that DNA is only "on Morgan" is misleading, and it becomes questionable as why there is a persistence in the first place.

    DNA can come from many things (both remains and inanimate objects). The relative quality and wholeness of a sample dictates its source, so the DNA sources will be unique to every case. Usually crime involvs evaluating multiple sources. LE has not disclosed more specific info , but since they have alluded to both Morgan's remains and her shirt, I think we can infer both have been used. Please stop insisting it only comes from one source.

    In an effort to move this convo forward, I have included this handy reference A Simplified Guide to DNA Evidence. Can we please start having more productive dialog now?
    Last edited by Conductor71; 10-15-2014 at 06:02 PM. Reason: font change

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