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  1. #1
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    Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

    Police Sources: Hannah Graham's Body Found
    Updated: Sat 5:41 PM, Oct 18, 2014

    Police sources confirm the body of Hannah Graham was found Saturday afternoon at Walnut Creek Park in Albemarle County.

    A female body that was found in Walnut Creek Park in Albemarle County Saturday afternoon has been confirmed to be that of missing UVA student Hannah Graham.

    Albemarle County Police will be making a statement shortly.

    The video of that press conference will be carried live, streaming here on newsplex.com and will be live on WCAV CBS19.

    Details to follow on this breaking story.

    BREAKING NEWS: Remains found in park; Hannah Graham's parents notified by police
    By The Associated Press
    October 18, 2014 - 10:55 am

    Remains were found in Walnut Creek Park in Albemarle County Saturday and the parents of missing UVA student Hannah Graham have been notified.

    Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/10...#ixzz3GXLLYHDs
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  2. #2
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    Brought over from the press conference thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by tlcya View Post
    search team sheriff dept search abandoned property
    discovered human remains
    PD phoned family to share the preliminary discovery
    Forensic testing will be done confirm ID
    investigation complicated
    unlikely we will have more information to share
    we know you will be patient and respectful
    there will come a time for more info but that is not today
    thanking all who worked hard officials and volunteers alike
    thanks EMS and SAR volunteers
    thanks to Mark of EMS for his team's work
    Quote Originally Posted by tlcya View Post
    investigative process presevering evidence and evidence collection
    remains will be taken for autopsy and ID
    death investigation
    no further details will be released about scene or evidence found thereon
    county will lead the death investigation due to body being located
    Quote Originally Posted by Perplexed 123 View Post
    c/fied county sheriff dept. made discovery
    remains to Richmond autopsy
    now death investigation
    al co. will lead
    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Steve Sellers says it was a Chesterfield Police Dept made the discovery. They are collecting and preserving evidence. Autopsy and official identification will be done. It's a death investigation, so specifics and evidence at scene will not be discovered. Same agency is lead in both Morgan Harrington case and Hannah Graham case.

    Discovery is significant discovery. They will not jump to conclusions about discovery.
    Thanks to everyone who helped to transcribe the PC.
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  3. #3
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    Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #2

    Please continue here

  4. #4
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    Paulap, Welcome to Websleuths!

    I sort of know how you are feeling, I have had someone in the family that has been arrested and in prison now for life. Having been around this person that I/we thought we knew and then knowing what they did is baffling to ones mind to say the least.
    With that being said I do wonder how close your nephew was with lj, like was he ever in the car,(burnt orange one). I wonder if the door knobs in the rear were there or broken off. jmo idk
    It's my opinion if no link provided.


    Misspellings due to fat fingers

    Words matter.

    You don't know what you don't know.

  5. #5
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    Bringing my post over from the end of the last thread; I've added a couple things:

    Quote Originally Posted by Migmuu View Post
    rsbm

    I'm a girl, I'm the same age Morgan was when she died, and I'm starting college very soon. This case really scares me and I don't know what I would do if I were in a situation like that. It makes me realize how vulnerable and weak I am at 5'4 and 140-some pounds and not being very fast. I'm seriously considering buying pepper spray now.

    BBM:

    As one who has had experience with keeping an eye out/learning to protect myself from a very dangerous and active predator in my community (I suppose they are everywhere, and one might never know sometimes), my main advice is to keep a personal perimeter around you (don't let anyone get too close to you). For example when someone on the street approaches me to ask for money or a cigarette (quite common in my area here in Colorado) I am sure to keep my distance...sometimes I even put my arm straight out in front of me and tell them, "Hey, jump back Jack...". One has to be extra assertive and not appear vulnerable in the least way...this means posture, tone of voice, etc... Always be aware of your surroundings, constantly do a 360 scan, watch out for blind spots like when you go around corners, trees, etc. If you feel you are close to being attacked, the best thing one can do imo is RUN, and avoid a physical confrontation at all costs, even if you are skilled in martial arts or have a weapon. Do not allow an opportunity for someone to get close enough to overpower you, if you can help it. And if God forbid you are physically attacked, fight back with everything, bite, get all the dna you can, and whatever happens, never let someone remove you from the location where you currently are. I carry all kinds of deterrents, lights, whistles, sirens, other things that I can easily access...always have your phone handy! (and charged---keep a spare charger with you). And do not be digging for your keys in parking lots, garages, etc. Have your keys ready. Try not to park way far out in lots, etc.

    My friend was attacked in a mall parking lot. I always envisioned a predator sneaking up on you, or popping out of the bushes, etc, but I learned from her case that sometimes they come running at you full speed in plain view, just like a football player. The guy that attacked her was as big as JM, and he literally came running at her from way far away in the parking lot as she was getting into her car. She saw this man running coming towards her with this angry look on her face, he was cursing...

    Hopefully nothing like this will ever happen to anyone here. But I'm 100% serious when I say you have to watch your back at all times. It seems to me there is no shortage of violent predators out there. I wish I did not have to lock my doors, etc, but unfortunately the days of not locking your doors are over, imo.

    Eta: And Never, under any circumstances, leave your drink unattended at the bar. Even for a second. If I forget, I ask for a new one. Even asking someone to watch your drink does not protect you, because they might get distracted themselves. Also, do not accept drinks from strangers.

    Eta: Also, if you're walking, and someone pulls up alongside you to ask for directions, etc, KEEP YOUR DISTANCE.

    Everything is jmo

  6. #6
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    Bringing this post over from the closed thread.

    Originally Posted by Elainera View Post

    If it was warm and humid, all soft tissue could be gone even in a week (I've seen that happen with dead animals in a warm climate). 35 days is a long time, could well be just bones, some hair maybe. And if there are vultures and other small scavengers they will pick it clean anyway. Sorry to be graphic!



    That may be true but isn't it shady in that area? If the sun was basking on the area where she was located I could possibly understand why there was such a fast decomposition rate as heat is the number one factor needed in rapid decomposition. But has it even been that hot in that area?

    While I have seen scavengers clean the dead animal down to the bone very quickly there is usually hair along with the bones left. And usually the bones are scattered about and not intact.

    It is the remains having no hair at all is what puzzles me after only 35 days. I have seen photos of bodies that were hundreds of years old and some of the hair although sparse was still attached. While the animal will be stripped of the flesh the hair is still on the deceased animal.

    Water will definitely help to make the remains form gases causing the body to bloat.

    But for all the remains to be skeletonized completely in 35 days is puzzling.

    If the officer could see that the skeleton had a long spine determining that the victim was tall then evidently the black stretch pants weren't on the skeleton, imo. But the first thing to separate from a skeleton is the lower mandible so I wonder if it was also still intact? That would tend to show the remains hadn't been skeleton for very long if the mandible was still there.

    It has been said there were torrential rains in that area so maybe that is what loosened all of the hair from the skull. If so during their search they should be able to find hair in the general area where she was found. Yet I saw a photo of one of Dr. Baden's cases long ago and the young woman had been fully submerged in water and after 7 months she was still intact with hair, tissue and flesh. The water was cold though but I thought it was fascinating how she had held together all that time. Once they rose her to the surface the decomposition advanced rapidly.

    I don't know why I think this may not be Hannah for it most likely is but I truly believe JM has a bone yard all over that particular area of the county and it could be another victim of his.

    Was any of the missing victims also wearing black pants when they went missing?

    Maybe they are sure it is Hannah if they found other items belonging to her. Or they may even know the brand of pants she was wearing when she went missing. LE knew the brand of underwear and clothing Laci had on before they found them.

    I said very early on I think he keeps mementoes of his victims and always felt in the search of his car or apartment they found maybe Morgan's unique necklace. They may have also found Hannah's shirt.

    We know he took it with him when he murdered Morgan and later placed it where it would be found. I think he did that because he liked all the attention Morgan's case was bringing. He knew if he placed her shirt some place it would keep it in the news so he could read about himself and how they weren't able to catch him even with finding the shirt. He was playing a cat and mouse game with LE even back then, imo

    IMO
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  7. #7
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    Re: the discussion of hair, I do not recall hair being present (or this being discussed) on the skeletal remains of other cases I've followed, though many were partial remains that were found a long time after the person went missing, and were most likely scavenged by animals. (Amy Ahonen, Dylan Redwine, Adrienne Salinas...)

  8. #8
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    For what it's worth:

    Rachel Ryan
    ‏@RachelCBS19
    The search team from Chesterfield Co who found the human remains off Old Lynchburg Rd Saturday. #HannahGraham https://twitter.com/RachelCBS19/stat...10689631420417

    B0TzC-tIUAA4Qtk.jpg

  9. #9
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    It's interesting to me thinking about the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. WG appears to have described JM incorrectly as being bald when he clearly is not. One of our fellow sleuthers adamantly proclaimed in three separate postings (before correcting herself) that Longo used the term "abandoned structure" vs. "abandoned property" in the press conference when he never did. People argue over whether or not the Fairfax sketch resembles JM. There's a bunch of discussion about the description of the pants found as being "tight" and what that implies relative to being on or off the body. To me "tight" means "stretch" pants, but that's my interpretation. Point is, all eyewitness testimony is influenced by personal interpretation.

    I put more of my faith and trust in science. Eyewitness descriptions are always suspect.

  10. #10
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    I just want to say, what an amazing commitment by LE and all of the searchers. I am amazed/impressed that they were able to find these remains, as it was quite a needle in a haystack. It is only because of their refusal to give up and keep searching...very reminiscent of LE in Jessica Ridgeway's, Tim Bosma's and Erin Corwin's cases.

    Also, just want to say good job to everyone here who has continued to search for Hannah and brainstorm, etc. We have been very, very close in many posts.

    JMO


  11. #11
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    I brought this over from the last thread as it got closed while I was catching up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Tall View Post
    I've read a lot of speculation about JM returning to the scene to clean up the body and pants with bleach. That doesn't seem logical to me at all. If he was going to take the chance of returning to the scene to bleach the pants, why not just bury them? Or take them away and dispose of them in a dumpster or something? I just don't see him out there with rubber gloves and a bucket of bleach rinsing Hannah's pants of his DNA, only to then leave them and her body unburied.

    What is more likely is that he killed her there and left everything exposed because he believed she would never be traced back to him, just as Morgan had not been traced back to him after he disposed of her in a field.

    I don't believe he was cognizant of all the cameras that might have linked him to Hannah that evening. I believe he believed he would be able to just talk his way out of having been seen with her if a witness ever materialized. While he might leave evidence behind, he never thought they would link it back to HIM.

    IMO

    I agree Noah Tall. I think he became complacent and bold as he managed to evade being exposed over the years. Overly confident, he let down his guard. Consuming alcohol added to that boldness and exoneration. All he had to do was get Hannah's trust and from there it was easy. The area that he took her to (and Morgan) is his comfort zone. He knows the area well, no doubt spent a lot of time there. In his mind, no one would even question seeing him there. He's (IMO) a predator, it's his territory. It's all very familiar to him. It makes me think of Lt. Rader's remark during Morgan's investigation. "A place he would feel comfortable returning to in times of stress."

  12. #12
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    "Matthew's next court appearance in relation to Graham's disappearance is scheduled for December 4."
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/18/us/han...html?hpt=hp_t2

  13. #13
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    Is it possible to have a thread dedicated to discussing how and why young women, who often feel so invincible especially when under the influence of alcohol and drugs, should keep themselves safe? I suspect this case will lead to many thoughtful articles involving practical recommendations as well as philosophical discussions. Certainly, being a victim of crime is not the victim's fault, but safety is not just a matter of depending on your constitutional right to drink to oblivion and take other risks. The example I give my daughter is: imagine you are at an intersection and the crosswalk light clearly says walk, giving you the legal right to do so. Yet you look to your left and see a car ready to run the light. Would you walk?

    At any rate, would a thread be possible? Camille Paglia has an article on time.com that should be required reading for any young woman in today's world.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DizzyB View Post
    I hope Sargeant Dale Terry had his head handed to him for granting that exclusive interview about finding what appears to be Hannah. If it had come from a private citizen, I would understand. This guy is LE. I assume they had been briefed and told to keep their mouths shut about details, long before she was found. I don't think it was right for LE to be discussing condition of remains on any level, unless clearing it with the Prosecutor and superiors.
    Even if Sgt. Terry had clearance to speak — which seems rather unlikely given what Longo said during the PC re: unlikely we will have more information to share / we know you will be patient and respectful /
    there will come a time for more info but that is not today
    — his intv strikes me as highly inconsiderate of HG's grieving family and friends, as well as potentially compromising to the investigation.

    I realize the media is aggressively pursuing this "story," but whatever happened to common decency? Real people's lives have been unalterably affected; these are not characters in a TV drama to be used to fill up airtime.

    I am just glad the Grahams and the Harringtons have each other to lean on for support. May they find peace and justice. It's heartbreaking that their daughters' vibrant, promising lives were brutally cut short.
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  15. #15
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    Fifth stage – the state of ‘skeletonization’

    The final stage is the ‘dry remains’ or the ‘skeletonization’ in which the only remaining elements of the decomposed body would be the dried up bones. Thus, all the moisture present in the body remnants will be lost and it is expected that this stage can take more than two years to complete in certain climates, while the dry and hot conditions can advance the process and complete the stage within even two weeks.

    http://www.sciences360.com/index.php...sition-2-4310/
    It's my opinion if no link provided.


    Misspellings due to fat fingers

    Words matter.

    You don't know what you don't know.

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