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  1. #1
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    Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

    Continue discussion here...

  2. #2
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    Woohoo new thread! I love that "new thread" smell.....
    "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands." Douglas Adams

  3. #3
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    Links to Fossil's files

    Key questions - arising from phone data and beyond (supports WTA2)
    Timeline - 13/14 February 2013
    Phone usage charts - 3 tabs, one each for 5353, 4949 and 0020
    Witness locations (aerial) - Silver Woods satellite view from May 2013
    Witness locations (graphic) - inc vacant plots and Guard Track locations
    Witness testimony analysis - based on evidence given
    Witness testimony analysis 2 - possible Prosecution chronology based on Johnson's call time being fast (see also KQ)

    Comments, corrections, additions and alternative views always welcome
    "O, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" Sir Walter Scott

  4. #4
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    BIB
    Am I missing something? Why couldn't Nel have said the State didn't have OP's phone if they didn't have it? Makes no sense the State couldn't have said exactly that if it were true they didn't have his phone and it makes no sense OP would say it if he knew the State didn't have it since they could pick him up on it. Nope, no sense at all, unless I've missed something.

    Bringing over gbng's comment from the last thread (sorry, can't de-bold)

    You've missed quite a bit! One of OP's phones was removed from the scene and not handed over to the state until 25 feb. It is most likely that it was with Carl at least part of the time. Someone wiped the history from the phone before it was handed in - possibly Carl. State did a deal with the defence so that, in return for Nel not raising this in court, the defence agreed not to call Botha.

  5. #5
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2817767/

    Not sure whether this has been posted.

    My-murdered-daughter-failed-South-African-justice-just-like-Reeva-Steenkamp-says-grieving-British-mother.

    The mother alleges that her daughter's murderer has evaded justice in SA due to his family's status and wealth.

    Devastated Marilyn and David lacked confidence in the way the police tackled the case and hired private investigator Ettienne Groenewalk to find Khan and bring him to justice.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by patCee View Post
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2817767/

    Not sure whether this has been posted.

    My-murdered-daughter-failed-South-African-justice-just-like-Reeva-Steenkamp-says-grieving-British-mother.

    The mother alleges that her daughter's murderer has evaded justice in SA due to his family's status and wealth.

    Devastated Marilyn and David lacked confidence in the way the police tackled the case and hired private investigator Ettienne Groenewalk to find Khan and bring him to justice.
    Nothing personal patCee - but your link contains an article from the daily mail (Capitals intentionally deleted.) This is a hideous excuse for a newspaper and is to be mistrusted at all times.
    We are not all born equal so Justice always has to be.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by delilah View Post
    BIB
    Am I missing something? Why couldn't Nel have said the State didn't have OP's phone if they didn't have it? Makes no sense the State couldn't have said exactly that if it were true they didn't have his phone and it makes no sense OP would say it if he knew the State didn't have it since they could pick him up on it. Nope, no sense at all, unless I've missed something.

    Bringing over gbng's comment from the last thread (sorry, can't de-bold)

    You've missed quite a bit! One of OP's phones was removed from the scene and not handed over to the state until 25 feb. It is most likely that it was with Carl at least part of the time. Someone wiped the history from the phone before it was handed in - possibly Carl. State did a deal with the defence so that, in return for Nel not raising this in court, the defence agreed not to call Botha.
    It makes one wonder how much damage Botha could have done. He may have made mistakes, and he certainly got hammered at the bail application, but does anyone know why the state were so reluctant for him to appear? I recall Roux bringing him up during the trial a few times with a sarcastic comment or three, but the defence could hardly have claimed that the methods or testimony of their experts and investigations was above criticism. This also makes me wonder why Masipa slammed Vergeer in the sentencing phase but made no mention of Roger Dixon in her summing up while delivering the verdict when IMO he was just as inept, if not worse. More likeable in a bumbling kind of way but that's beside the point - his evidence was way beyond his field of expertise and bordered on dishonest with such stunts as the 'figure in the window' photos to name just one example.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    It makes one wonder how much damage Botha could have done. He may have made mistakes, and he certainly got hammered at the bail application, but does anyone know why the state were so reluctant for him to appear? I recall Roux bringing him up during the trial a few times with a sarcastic comment or three, but the defence could hardly have claimed that the methods or testimony of their experts and investigations was above criticism. This also makes me wonder why Masipa slammed Vergeer in the sentencing phase but made no mention of Roger Dixon in her summing up while delivering the verdict when IMO he was just as inept, if not worse. More likeable in a bumbling kind of way but that's beside the point - his evidence was way beyond his field of expertise and bordered on dishonest with such stunts as the 'figure in the window' photos to name just one example.
    What Botha did were not mistakes - he was in all probability compromised.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by akp View Post
    What Botha did were not mistakes - he was in all probability compromised.
    Do you mean by having done something illegal/dodgy in the course of this investigation or by something else?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    Do you mean by having done something illegal/dodgy in the course of this investigation or by something else?
    I wouldn't say `illegal'; but exactly the kind of things I would expect one to do if he was in the Police force but working for the accused so that the case against the accused gets weakened, at the same time without giving the State a clear cut opportunity to charge him (the officer) for his actions. I initially got the feeling from the State's unwillingness to involve him in the trial, and also replacing him in the investigation team on a pretext that I found kind of cooked up just for the purpose of giving an official reason. But as I am going through transcripts of the bail hearing, I am getting more convinced about this. If and when I get hold of the transcripts of the entire bail hearing, I should be in a better position to elaborate.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosen_Fenger View Post
    Nothing personal patCee - but your link contains an article from the daily mail (Capitals intentionally deleted.) This is a hideous excuse for a newspaper and is to be mistrusted at all times.
    It does sensationalise with headlines, and promotes women in various states of undress I agree......but is often the first to carry a lot of news that can then be checked out in other papers, and it's free to view. Anyway, especially for you Hoosen_Fenger

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afri...1#.VFaMzjSsVNY

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...illing-4551160 .......this rag could also be questionable.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by akp View Post
    I wouldn't say `illegal'; but exactly the kind of things I would expect one to do if he was in the Police force but working for the accused so that the case against the accused gets weakened, at the same time without giving the State a clear cut opportunity to charge him (the officer) for his actions. I initially got the feeling from the State's unwillingness to involve him in the trial, and also replacing him in the investigation team on a pretext that I found kind of cooked up just for the purpose of giving an official reason. But as I am going through transcripts of the bail hearing, I am getting more convinced about this. If and when I get hold of the transcripts of the entire bail hearing, I should be in a better position to elaborate.
    That's an interesting take.

    My impression was that it was more a case of Botha & Pistorius having a history (Botha investigated the slammed door incident) and Botha being biased against him.

    But I could obviously be wrong about that.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LemonMousse View Post
    That's an interesting take.

    My impression was that it was more a case of Botha & Pistorius having a history (Botha investigated the slammed door incident) and Botha being biased against him.

    But I could obviously be wrong about that.
    That's how I remember it too - he was reported as both being sloppy and too eager to throw the book at Oscar - not in collusion with him

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by patCee View Post
    It does sensationalise with headlines, and promotes women in various states of undress I agree......but is often the first to carry a lot of news that can then be checked out in other papers, and it's free to view. Anyway, especially for you Hoosen_Fenger

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afri...1#.VFaMzjSsVNY

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...illing-4551160 .......this rag could also be questionable.
    Agreed. And celebrity obsessed. But, to be balanced, it does have the biggest circulation over here in UK, biggest overseas readership and is probably one of the few papers still growing.

    Ironically it was the Sunday Times, which still views itself as a quality broadsheet that caused the furore* post sentencing with the "Reeva and Oscar never had sex" etc headlines, from the Steenkamp serialisation.

    * The one even David Dadic was commenting on - ie unwise advisors in Steenkamp circle whilst NPA had not yet announced Appeal.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosen_Fenger View Post
    Nothing personal patCee - but your link contains an article from the daily mail (Capitals intentionally deleted.) This is a hideous excuse for a newspaper and is to be mistrusted at all times.
    BIB - it is untrustworthy - but it's not untrustworthy at all times.

    Occasionally, it does print facts!

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