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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by writable View Post
    Well, unlike Krantz, I'm not a DA who is, without a shred of evidence, abusing his power to legally destroy people.
    Lets look at this from a police officer's point of view or from a prosecutor's point of view. There had recently been a tip concerning two murders, specifically where to find remains. Investigators look around at the site and find and informal grave yard containing an unknown number of graves, but only one marked grave. Most of the graves are marked with stones. Next, in order to clarify, they ask current and former property owners to shed some light on the exact number of graves, and to identify the people who were interred. They either get no information in return, or conflicting information. This kind of stuff never makes a homicide detective feel that he is hearing the truth. But then, knowing that it is, indeed, possible for a site to have been in use as a graveyard before the current property owner was even born, investigators take their time and ask neighbors about it, as well. Still, no real answers. After a search involving no shovels or radar equipment, they actually find bones and personal effects, belonging to one of the Lyon girls. OF COURSE THEY WANTED TO KNOW MORE! Wouldn't you?

    I find it strange that despite the lies they heard from LLW, they still came up with an area to search that yielded forensic results. If RAW did not want to be destroyed, he should have discussed the unmarked graves on his property more intelligently with police. It's never a good idea to misrepresent or guess about the truth during grand jury proceedings when you own property with unidentified graves.

    Where do you get the idea that nothing was found? They found quite a bit.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    Lets look at this from a police officer's point of view or from a prosecutor's point of view. There had recently been a tip concerning two murders, specifically where to find remains. Investigators look around at the site and find and informal grave yard containing an unknown number of graves, but only one marked grave. Most of the graves are marked with stones. Next, in order to clarify, they ask current and former property owners to shed some light on the exact number of graves, and to identify the people who were interred. They either get no information in return, or conflicting information. This kind of stuff never makes a homicide detective feel that he is hearing the truth. But then, knowing that it is, indeed, possible for a site to have been in use as a graveyard before the current property owner was even born, investigators take their time and ask neighbors about it, as well. Still, no real answers. After a search involving no shovels or radar equipment, they actually find bones and personal effects, belonging to one of the Lyon girls. OF COURSE THEY WANTED TO KNOW MORE! Wouldn't you?

    I find it strange that despite the lies they heard from LLW, they still came up with an area to search that yielded forensic results. If RAW did not want to be destroyed, he should have discussed the unmarked graves on his property more intelligently with police. It's never a good idea to misrepresent or guess about the truth during grand jury proceedings when you own property with unidentified graves.
    siriunsun, are you saying that the BONES, yellow bag, etc... have been CONFIRMED to belong to the Lyon sisters?!!

  3. #18
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    I do not believe the bones have been confirmed. As for the personal effects, more confirmation would probably be good. No one who owned the property over the last forty years could claim the items, or explain them. While I personally believe at least one of those items are connected, you are right....we can't stop there. We've gotta prove it.

    Given all that, I don't see how anyone could accuse the DA of going on a witch hunt. If he didn't follow those things up, he'd be soft on crime!

  4. #19
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    No, I am not on the grand jury.

    LE actually did find remains; this was reported yesterday.

  5. #20
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    I don't think that I do have information that is beyond what it written......granted, some of it was written forty years ago and I remember it, but it's been published, nonetheless. Other than that, I do have pretty extensive knowledge of the community where the girls lived, but that's because I lived there, too.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    After a search involving no shovels or radar equipment, they actually find bones and personal effects, belonging to one of the Lyon girls.
    They may have found bones, should have found bones in an old graveyard, and should have found personal effects (trash), but at this time, I don't think the police have confirmed any of the remains or personal effect are the Lyon sisters'. If you think the police have, feel free to provide a link.

    What the police and news reports have said are things like:
    We HOPE to find the remains of the Lyon sisters.
    We THINK we will find remains of the Lyon sisters.
    We have found bones that MIGHT belong to the Lyon sisters (but might be 100-year old bones).

    Obviously the entire purpose of the search warrant and digging for remains is to find remains related to the sisters, but trying to find remains and actually finding remains are two different things.

  7. #22
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    Police have also said highly confident, but vague things such as:
    We know what happened.
    We know people on Talyor Mountain know what happened.
    We know multiple family members are "responsible" or "involved."
    We expect to solve this shortly.
    which would give the impression that police have more information, such as any physical evidence, than has been made public.

    But so far in this case, whenever "evidence" is released, it's weak circumstantial evidence or jailhouse informants (counting Lloyd as a jailhouse informant).
    Police often overstate, even lie, about the evidence to trick the guilty into confessing; which often is everyone saying someone else was the most guilty and minimize their own role (I just watched someone else do it).

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveP120 View Post
    Police have also said highly confident, but vague things such as:
    We know what happened.
    We know people on Talyor Mountain know what happened.
    We know multiple family members are "responsible" or "involved."
    We expect to solve this shortly.
    which would give the impression that police have more information, such as any physical evidence, than has been made public.

    But so far in this case, whenever "evidence" is released, it's weak circumstantial evidence or jailhouse informants (counting Lloyd as a jailhouse informant).
    Police often overstate, even lie, about the evidence to trick the guilty into confessing; which often is everyone saying someone else was the most guilty and minimize their own role (I just watched someone else do it).
    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. If the bones are 100 years old, forensic science at our disposal can easily determine that. After talking to Lloyd, law enforcement had enough of a picture of what happened to find the bones, in the first place. RAW and his lovely wife (sarcasm...I actually hate people who want missing persons cases to remain unsolved) appear to have LIED to the authorities we pay with our taxes to solve these crimes when they occur, and since the evidence was found on their property, I think they owe both Maryland and Virginia an explanation, not to mention John and Mary Lyon. IT'S NOT OKAY TO KIDNAP CHILDREN, KILL THEM, AND HIDE THEIR BODIES. If any property owners in that part of Virginia have done a thing like that, I hope, if there isn't enough evidence to satisfy a jury, that their lives are forever ruined by the investigation. It still won't compare to the ruin of the lives of Katherine and Sheila's family, or to murder.

  9. #24
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    Back in 1975, law enforcement had weak evidence. For the past year and a half, or maybe two years, law enforcement has had nothing but iffy circumstantial evidence. But now, I think they have a lot more.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by writable View Post
    So far, it appears that LE has conducted something of a witch hunt against Richard Welch. They have no evidence whatsoever linking him to the Lyons sisters' disappearance, and, in fact, they claimed last month (Jan. 2015) that physical evidence would be found at Taylor's Mountain (where Richard Welch owns some property). Guess what? Nothing was found.

    So where does that leave us? An embarrassed LE releasing press conference statements impugning RW via laughable extrapolations: Richard and his wife were "very interested" in what relatives might have told police (who wouldn't be?); Thomas, the (then 10-year-old) nephew named in Lloyd's fantasy alibi as being in the car at the time of Richard's alleged involvement (Thomas said this never happened), "very unusually" called his uncle after the press conference. Apparently, Thomas doesn't normally call his uncle to wish his uncle "Happy Birthday", so obviously, something must very definitely be up if he called his uncle following a televised LE press conference which merely named his uncle as someone who may have kidnapped, raped, and murdered two young girls and which named himself as a material witness, right?
    I believe Thomas called his uncle way before either he (Thomas) or the uncle (Richard) were named publicly.
    The top of page two of the search warrant attachment:
    http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wset/...5022314160.pdf
    "on the day of the press conference naming Lloyd as a person of interest" the phone calls between Thomas and Richard were made and they met for several hours at Richard's house.
    The press conference naming Richard as a second person of interest was months later, and I believe Thomas was not named publicly until last Friday.

    It is unknown to us, but there is a good chance that neither Richard or Thomas was known to the police at the time of the first press conference.

    That being said, that a close relative was named as a person of interest is an innocent reason for telephoning and meeting in person for several hours.
    There are also less innocent reasons, such as getting the stories straight.

    My own individual guess is that at most Richard, after the fact (murder), helped dispose of the bodies, but at this time, you are correct that there is little public information that is convincing against anyone. Even Lloyd's criminal record is unlikely to be usable as evidence against him.

    Richard, Thomas, and Richard's wife did initially cooperate with the police and gave, according to the police "conflicting" reports of what they talked about that day. But almost any two or three reports are slightly conflicting. In fact if the reports were word, for word, we talked about A, B, and C, I would venture the police would the reports not as conflicting, but as "unusually identical."

    My own guess is that Thomas came to the attention of the police from calling his uncle, but this is a guess.
    It is unknown how or when (before or after Lloyd was named) Richard came to the attention of the police.

    My speculation is that if Richard really was a serious person of interest at the time of the announcement, the police would have had better surveillance on him, any person of interest, to see if any attempt was made to cover up evidence. If, and it's a big if, the police knew about Richard and Richard has some guilt, they could have caught him by taping the phone calls (warrant required) or catching Thomas off guard the same day.
    Last edited by steveP120; 02-24-2015 at 06:08 PM. Reason: typo


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by j123 View Post
    Here is the file

    http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wset/...5022314160.pdf

    The information is very compelling. I got chills reading it. Everything was so vague when this lead was revealed, and I was worried after all these years that it still might not pan out. I don't feel that way anymore after reading this document.
    I'd say LE is most definitely looking at the right people.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "It's unbelievable that people can disappear off the face of the Earth without a trace when they find dinosaur bones and identify them." ~ John Lyon

  12. #27
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    While Thomas Teddy Welch, Jr. (alias Tyler W. Welch) was certainly a young boy aged 11 years, 8 months in March 1975, he did manage in later years to build quite a criminal and civil record in the Maryland judicial system.

    He has been in court for an array of charges, including numerous incidents of battery, drug and alcohol abuse, and domestic violence. Some of those offenses have resulted in his spending time in jail. He lost custody of his children.

    Most disturbing is his close association with one Leonard W. Kraisel, a man who was recently convicted of numerous charges of sexual offenses against minor children.

    As with his cousin, Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. his criminal history after 1975 is not legally germane to the case of the Lyon sisters, but it certainly makes one wonder about his upbringing, his youth experiences, and his later life choices.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Most disturbing is his close association with one Leonard W. Kraisel, a man who was recently convicted of numerous charges of sexual offenses against minor children.
    Richard, I am totally lost on the connection between Thomas Teddy Welch, Jr. and Leonard W. Kraisel.

    Can you elaborate or link, please? Thanks.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    While Thomas Teddy Welch, Jr. (alias Tyler W. Welch) was certainly a young boy aged 11 years, 8 months in March 1975, he did manage in later years to build quite a criminal and civil record in the Maryland judicial system.

    He has been in court for an array of charges, including numerous incidents of battery, drug and alcohol abuse, and domestic violence. Some of those offenses have resulted in his spending time in jail. He lost custody of his children.

    Most disturbing is his close association with one Leonard W. Kraisel, a man who was recently convicted of numerous charges of sexual offenses against minor children.

    As with his cousin, Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. his criminal history after 1975 is not legally germane to the case of the Lyon sisters, but it certainly makes one wonder about his upbringing, his youth experiences, and his later life choices.
    Where are you noting that he lost custody of his children? And what does his history of petty crime have to do with the Lyon sisters and their disappearance? His upbringing and youth experiences have nothing to do with Sheila and Katherine, and focusing on Jr. will probably result in distracting precious time and attention from the case. Hopefully, actual investigators are not doing that, as it's beginning to look like Thomas Jr. is yet another victim in the midst of all this. Can you imagine having to live with an experience like that? Especially if no one listens when you try to testify, and everyone calls you a liar? Not that those things provide anyone with an excuse to turn to addictive behavior, but it is certainly a conflict in life!

    Look to relatives who own property in Florida for Thomas Jr.'s connection to Kraisel. He met Kraisel through other family members. He also did the right thing when Kraisel overstepped his boundaries, one last time, and went to court over it. But once again, his children are NOT part of this (Lyon sisters) equation! Out of curiosity, I looked all over for a recent picture of Kraisel, but couldn't find one, and after Kraisel's conviction about a year and a half ago, or so.....I find it a bit strange that Kraisel is not in the sex offender registry. Is he rich enough to buy his way out of it?

    There's no way an eleven yr old kidnapped and killed two people, then transported them, magically.......(with a skateboard or a wagon?) two hundred + miles to a mountain burial site! We have to look at the adults here. Impugning Jr.'s testimony, should he offer any, could result in a murderer walking free. Would anyone want that?

  15. #30
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    Thomas Jr. was not named at all. He was merely mentioned in the testimony of someone who is currently in prison. That's not the same thing as being "named".

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