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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    Did it ever occur to you that Thomas Jr. MIGHT have tried to come forward? Did it ever occur to you that authorities might have blown off every word he said, because.....perchance......he only knew part of the story, but not all? If that's the case, there will be enough character assassination in court and on other websites, not to mention in person. Don't you think testifying, and doing the right thing, will be easier if he is NOT tried in the media, along with any ADULT who becomes an actual DEFENDENT? How would you like to grow up in a family of insane people with criminal tendencies?
    I think Thomas, from other posts here, did come forward and testify in other cases, but on the the Lyon sisters case, Thomas denies that the car ride happen and there is anything to come forward with.

    Of course it's possible that just like I could not name a fraction of the kids I was in a car with decades ago, Thomas just forgot the trip. Thomas does seem to be denying the trip with such certainty that either he has a great memory or he never got rides with Lloyd or his uncle Ralph.

    But it does seem too close to guilt by association by linking someone with a more serious criminal.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveP120 View Post
    I think Thomas, from other posts here, did come forward and testify in other cases, but on the the Lyon sisters case, Thomas denies that the car ride happen and there is anything to come forward with.

    Of course it's possible that just like I could not name a fraction of the kids I was in a car with decades ago, Thomas just forgot the trip. Thomas does seem to be denying the trip with such certainty that either he has a great memory or he never got rides with Lloyd or his uncle Ralph.

    But it does seem too close to guilt by association by linking someone with a more serious criminal.
    Did Thomas Jr. deny the car ride? Is there a link to anything he actually said about this case, so far, to investigators?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    Did Thomas Jr. deny the car ride? Is there a link to anything he actually said about this case, so far, to investigators?
    It's in the Washington Post article:
    That opinion is shared by another relative, Thomas Welch Jr., a family member who Lloyd Welch said was in the car during the kidnapping, according to the affidavits. In an interview Friday, Thomas Welch Jr. denied being in the car and said he was 10 1 /2 at the time. “I haven’t done anything,” he said.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...692_story.html

    It's only speculation on my part, but it's possible that Thomas, while not being in the abduction car might know some other information such as if Lloyd or Richard were involved some "Unsettling interactions" at Wheaton Plaza at the time
    http://www.csnwashington.com/article...-vanished-1975
    or if Richard and his wife got into a huge fight around the same time.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveP120 View Post

    The most innocent explanation would be that Thomas forgot the car ride with the two girls within a week or forgot what the girls looked like enough to connect them to the Lyon sisters in the news.

    A less innocent explanation would be that Thomas remembered the car ride, but when he brought it up to his parents or relatives, as a 10-year-old would before calling the police, they told him the girls were some friends' daughters; many kids look alike.
    Doubtful that Thomas could fail to remember being in a car with the Lyon sisters on that day (or being in a car with two unfamiliar girls), as the missing Lyon girls case gripped the entire town/region at the time. I'm reading online news stories on the case, and reader comments by local residents universally state things like "I will never forget that day (the Lyon sisters disappeared)" or "That day is seared in my memory forever", etc.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    I so agree with you! And if you look at Thomas Jr.'s criminal history, it's really nothing special, and there are no felonies. I don't think a jury is going to care if he smoked pot in the past. ....
    The woman whom Thomas Welch attacked and battered on several occasions would probably disagree with you.

    There are charges of Assult and Battery (felonies), Violating Protective Orders, and Violating Probation. Driving while intoxicated put others in great danger. And several drug offenses. I wouldn't characterize his record as "nothing special" or just a few minor infractions.

    He is not some innocent kid who has been knocking at MCP's door for the past 40 years to try and help with the Lyon case. It is possible that he doesn't know anything about it, but there is no indication that he has ever come forward with information, as you suggest.

    If you want to see a relatively clean legal record, check out that of Richard Welch.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The woman whom Thomas Welch attacked and battered on several occasions would probably disagree with you.

    There are charges of Assult and Battery (felonies), Violating Protective Orders, and Violating Probation. Driving while intoxicated put others in great danger. And several drug offenses. I wouldn't characterize his record as "nothing special" or just a few minor infractions.

    He is not some innocent kid who has been knocking at MCP's door for the past 40 years to try and help with the Lyon case. It is possible that he doesn't know anything about it, but there is no indication that he has ever come forward with information, as you suggest.

    If you want to see a relatively clean legal record, check out that of Richard Welch.
    She hasn't disagreed with me. She had her day in court. Maryland has a history of not taking family matters seriously, and that word, "family" is probably yet another reason that......ahem.......disgruntled relatives will not have much recourse to use that case to throw Thomas Jr. under the bus, should he have any relevant testimony. Whatever Richard did or didn't do in Maryland, the behaviors of his children speaks volumes. Look, for yourself, at his son's record. But.....that has nothing to do with the Lyon sisters.

    Richard; how would YOU know whose door Thomas Jr. has knocked on for the past 40 years? I only posed that thought as a suggestion. You came back with an undeserved attack on a witness's character, and bizarre comparison of Thomas Jr. and his uncle! Whatever for?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by writable View Post
    Doubtful that Thomas could fail to remember being in a car with the Lyon sisters on that day (or being in a car with two unfamiliar girls), as the missing Lyon girls case gripped the entire town/region at the time. I'm reading online news stories on the case, and reader comments by local residents universally state things like "I will never forget that day (the Lyon sisters disappeared)" or "That day is seared in my memory forever", etc.
    How would you know if the two girls were unfamiliar? And as another commenter pointed out, he may not have even been in the car. If he was, an it was "seared in his memory forever", why is that? Whose fault would that be?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by writable View Post
    Doubtful that Thomas could fail to remember being in a car with the Lyon sisters on that day (or being in a car with two unfamiliar girls), as the missing Lyon girls case gripped the entire town/region at the time. I'm reading online news stories on the case, and reader comments by local residents universally state things like "I will never forget that day (the Lyon sisters disappeared)" or "That day is seared in my memory forever", etc.
    You are comparing the memory of a one-in-a-decade child double kidnapping story with the memory of being in a car with other kids.

    For example, given the number of people shopping, It's likely that the girls were within eyesight of one or dozens of people at any one time from the second they stepped on the property to the second they left. But very few people remember the girls at the mall, because they were just one of hundreds of people there that day and the police were not able to track the end of the girls activity because nobody was paying attention to two girls at a mall.

    Of course being in a car with two girls is somewhat more memorable than seeing them at the mall, but not a must remember event. If he knew the two girls from school, which is unlikely since he lived miles away, I agree he would have remembered them. But if it was just two friends of friends, he might not recognized them from the photographs in the newspaper. People, even adults have to make an effort to remember names at parties, even if they told them their names.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    How would you know if the two girls were unfamiliar? And as another commenter pointed out, he may not have even been in the car. If he was, an it was "seared in his memory forever", why is that? Whose fault would that be?
    I was responding to speculation that Thomas might have forgotten knowingly or unknowingly being in a car with the Lyon sisters (unknowingly, if he was unfamiliar with them). My point is that had the alleged incident taken place, it would be highly doubtful he could have forgotten about it. But I doubt the alleged incident ever did take place (the allegation that Richard Welch kidnapped the girls).

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveP120 View Post
    You are comparing the memory of a one-in-a-decade child double kidnapping story with the memory of being in a car with other kids.

    For example, given the number of people shopping, It's likely that the girls were within eyesight of one or dozens of people at any one time from the second they stepped on the property to the second they left. But very few people remember the girls at the mall, because they were just one of hundreds of people there that day and the police were not able to track the end of the girls activity because nobody was paying attention to two girls at a mall.

    Of course being in a car with two girls is somewhat more memorable than seeing them at the mall, but not a must remember event. If he knew the two girls from school, which is unlikely since he lived miles away, I agree he would have remembered them. But if it was just two friends of friends, he might not recognized them from the photographs in the newspaper. People, even adults have to make an effort to remember names at parties, even if they told them their names.
    Even if he was personally unfamiliar with the girls -- this is assuming the incident actually did take place -- its highly unlikely he could have failed to later recognize them after their faces were broadcast all over the local media for the next several months.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Old Cemeteries...

    Burial practices today are quite different from earlier times. The usual practice from Colonial times into the 20th century was for people to be buried in family cemeteries located on private land. In many places, even though more recent legislation had been enacted to regulate cemeteries, older existing cemeteries were exempted from newer laws.

    A common practice was to mark graves with wooden headboards or just field stones, which over the years have rotted away or been removed. Cemetery records usually do not exist for such family burying grounds. Also, it was common practice for slaves or free black persons to be buried in ground closely adjacent to where the white landowner's family was buried. Again, those graves are very often unmarked and not recorded anywhere.

    Consider also, that a large majority of casualties in our Civil War (1861-1865) occurred in Virginia. Those soldiers were buried on battlefields, in existing small cemeteries, and in the yards of houses used as tempory field hospitals. There were more casualties during the Civil War that in all of our other conflicts and wars combined.

    With all of the above considerations, it is no wonder that nobody knows all who were buried in those old cemeteries - unless it was someone they knew personally, or a relative that they were aware of.

    All that said, one might consider that if someone wanted to bury a murder victim where he/she wouldn't be found, an old cemetery might be such a place. OR ... If someone wanted to lead LE on a fruitless search to direct them away from the real burial place, mentioning such a cemetery might be a devious ploy.
    Very well said, Richard!
    When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.

    Mark Twain

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by writable View Post
    Even if he was personally unfamiliar with the girls -- this is assuming the incident actually did take place -- its highly unlikely he could have failed to later recognize them after their faces were broadcast all over the local media for the next several months.
    I think that you, like most people, are overconfident in eyewitness reports and memory. There are plenty of studies showing that memory is less accurate than people think.

    I doubt that many 10-year-old kids are interested in the news, but the girls' photos were broadcast over the local news, for better or worse along with the sketch of tape recorder man (TRM) the prime suspect or person of interest at the time.

    Seeing that TRM looked nothing like any of the Welches, It could easily lead one to think that the two girls were just two similar looking girls. Even if a 10-year-old figured out that Lloyd was a sketchy dirtbag with problems, I doubt he or anyone in their family thought they were kidnappers or murderers.* Cognitive dissonance leads even adults to disregard evidence inconsistent with prior beliefs. Any death is a tragedy, but you can see cognitive dissonance when the Mom of someone shot by police can't face any evidence that their son is not a good son.

    * If the murder was the result of a crime gone wrong, even the criminals themselves would not think of themselves as murderers.

  13. #58
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    Lloyd is a liar, but the police believe part of his story

    Police believe the girls took a path from the neighborhood, but never made it back to the path.

    "It's a winding path, goes through the woods. It would have been a normal way for kids to travel to come here,” said Hamill. “We don't believe they ever made it from the mall. We believe the actions occurred here in the area of the mall."

    http://www.wset.com/story/26797749/w...ng-their-steps

  14. #59

    Purpose of this Website

    I have to say that in reading the many posts of some of you going back and forth in an overly assertive way in many posts, you are losing your focus and causing the rest of us here reading these posts to lose our focus on the whole purpose of this website in the first place.

    The majority of us should be "on the same team" so to speak in trying to help SOLVE cases.

    Let's face it. Each of us have our own viewpoints and moral standards we believe.

    However, at some point there has to be a give and take and LOOKING for points we CAN AGREE ON, rather than the opposite.

    We all know TW2 was a minor when this happened.

    However, everyone has baggage from their past, but especially when we become adults,
    WE ALL HAVE FREE WILL and can make choices.

    Obviously, TW2 is going to choose now, how he will handle these comments from LLW2,
    as well as perhaps get legal assistance if he needs to, depending how things go.

  15. #60

    Documents Released From Search Warrant on RAW1's Home?

    Does anyone know if we have available a list of things found in the search of RAW1's home in Hyattsville, Maryland?

    As an example, even though RAW1 doesn't have a criminal record, perhaps knowing what was found in the home can give clues.

    As an EXAMPLE ONLY:
    If adult porno materials were found in someone's home--that is one thing,
    however if CHILD porno literature is found, THAT IS A BIG RED FLAG-- if it found in a Person of Interest's home in a case like this with the missing children.
    Last edited by simplifymylife2014; 02-26-2015 at 10:38 PM.

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