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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplifymylife2014 View Post
    This is in reply to siriunsun's post from the LLW
    thread....
    ... I would guess that remains found may have to be pieced together....
    ...However, could someone here that knows or knows someone else that knows--
    explain the time difference between doing a DNA test on a living person and
    testing for a match, vs. putting remains together from the dig and then testing
    the DNA for a match??
    I do not recall that authorities have made any kind of statement to indicate whether or not any remains were found during their recent digging. In fact, no mention of any kind was made regarding anything that they might have found.

    From the photos I saw, there were actually several dig sites, all located in a row, and all seemed to be getting an equal amount of attention, judging by the piles of sifted dirt in front of each.

    Having been on similar archaeological digs, I can say that even if no bodies were found, the digging, sifting, and careful cataloging of any finds can be of much use to investigators. For instance, finding trash or items which date to a specific time can possibly pinpoint or possibly eliminate an area for future digging.

    If in one spot archaeologists were to find undisturbed 16th century pottery, it would be unlikely that a body was buried there in the 20th century.

    The ground, itself can indicate whether or not it had been dug into in the recent past, based on disturbance patterns or mixing of clay with topsoil. Contaminants in the soil might indicate chemicals used to dispose of bodies. Lime deposits might also indicate an attempt to cover a grave.

    Identification by DNA matching is a very recent thing. Twenty Five years ago, I recall a case where bodies were located and identifications were made using World War II era dental records, missing aircraft reports, and general descriptions of the men.

    DNA matching does not require that a body be reconstructed. It does, however, require that a good sample be obtained which will yield enough matching points to a master sample known to have been from the victim or from a close maternal relative. After a body has been decomposing or exposed to the elements for a long time, DNA is degraded, so finding a good sample may take some time.

    A good DNA sample might not come from just a body or body part. It could be found on other evidence as well, such as a piece of clothing or a weapon found during a search.

    As to how much time it would take - that would depend on a lot of different factors. Even a controlled comparison of perfect samples could take a few weeks.

    Then there is the question of how investigators or prosecutors choose to use any evidence found. Do they charge someone with a crime, or do they continue to look for more evidence to support their case? It is unlikely that results of any DNA matching would be released prior to further searching.

  2. #62
    Wow!!
    Thank you Richard for all of that very interesting info.

    1) If they do find a match, is it logical, in view of how long the family has waited in this case--to think they would reveal a match to the parents and family--before they do a search for more evidence?

    2) Also, do you think it would take less time to process for DNA when it is from a living person?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplifymylife2014 View Post
    Wow!!
    Thank you Richard for all of that very interesting info.

    1) If they do find a match, is it logical, in view of how long the family has waited in this case--to think they would reveal a match to the parents and family--before they do a search for more evidence?

    2) Also, do you think it would take less time to process for DNA when it is from a living person?

    The only reasons it would take more time are because the Lyon sisters disappeared before DNA testing was developed and used, and we have no samples of their DNA against which to compare. But we can construct a profile of sorts using their relatives, particularly, their parents. Richard III was recently found, and his profile was reconstructed by using that of known descendants. The other reason it could take longer is degradation of some DNA over time, but we have polymerase chain reaction now, so we can copy it and use it without as much fear of destroying the only samples we have.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by siriunsun View Post
    The only reasons it would take more time are because the Lyon sisters disappeared before DNA testing was developed and used, and we have no samples of their DNA against which to compare. But we can construct a profile of sorts using their relatives, particularly, their parents. Richard III was recently found, and his profile was reconstructed by using that of known descendants. The other reason it could take longer is degradation of some DNA over time, but we have polymerase chain reaction now, so we can copy it and use it without as much fear of destroying the only samples we have.
    Hi Richard and siriunsun, they may have some DNA samples from the Lyon sisters from 1975. I may be wrong, but I thought they had their hair brushes and any hair that was in them, as well as other clothes, perhaps pajamas, etc. worn by the girls' shortly before their abduction on 25 March 1975. I believe some of these items were used when they brought in the dogs. The dogs had to have something with the girls' scents on it to go by. I imagine these items are still among the things in police custody. If that is the case, wouldn't that be quite helpful when doing a DNA match? In addition to those items, I am sure that they have in custody, the girls' dental records. Also, the girls' parents and brothers are still living and could provide their own samples for comparison.

  5. #65
    The search with the dogs I am referring to was the one authorities conducted back in 1975 in the Kensington/Wheaton area.

  6. #66
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    It is possible that investigators have DNA samples on file for Sheila and Kate - possibly from something of theirs, or from their mother or from other family members.

    That DNA would be compared from any DNA obtained on items or remains which might be found.

    At this time, however, there have been no announcemets from LE to indicate that they have any evidence to test.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It is possible that investigators have DNA samples on file for Sheila and Kate - possibly from something of theirs, or from their mother or from other family members.

    That DNA would be compared from any DNA obtained on items or remains which might be found.

    At this time, however, there have been no announcemets from LE to indicate that they have any evidence to test.
    The fact that there have been no announcements seems very unusual. I think something may have been found.

  8. #68

    Most Likely Good Reasons for LE Limiting Info Released to the Public

    I believe that there is a lot that the authorities know, especially since near the time period that they released the LHM sketch and photos of LLW, Jr. being a POI and also when RAW, Sr. was announced as a POI.

    I keep thinking about a comment made by one LE officer that SO MANY ANSWERS are "just a stone's throw away" from where authorities were looking in Virginia.

    I truly believe there are possibly a number of relatives that have knowledge of MUCH of what DID take place and they have chosen to keep VERY quiet to authorities.

    That point is obvious by the number of times LE HAVE PLEADED AND APPEALED TO PEOPLE'S HEARTS "to COME FORWARD and DO THE RIGHT THING." (emphasis added)

    It appears that TIME is being bought--by the postponement of PW's court date as she is preparing with her lawyer.

    It seems pretty clear that the authorities must have GOOD reasons for WHAT and what they ARE NOT choosing to release to the public--one of which is most likely to protect the judicial process, once that begins.
    Last edited by simplifymylife2014; 02-16-2015 at 11:34 PM.

  9. #69

    TRAILER on the Property in Taylor's Mountain

    HistoryDetective63 and beachlvr0811 and others:

    Was it at the property of Elizabeth Welch Parker (RAW2's sister) that a trailer existed and still IS there??

    Does anyone know WHO would live there or stay there temporarily?

  10. #70
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    Sep 2014
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    For me the takeaway from the document is they also mentioned details about the circumstances of the Lyon sisters disappearance that have not been made known to the public."


  11. #71
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    "While investigators aren't commenting on Lloyd Welch's statement, sources suggest he may have lied to cover up his own actions. He is currently serving a 29-year sentence for an unrelated rape in Delaware. According to the Bedford County search warrant, Welch told a fellow inmate at the Delaware prison that he kidnapped the Lyon sisters and buried them on a family property in Virginia.

    Shortly after the warrant was filed in September, investigators carried out an extensive search on Taylor's Mountain. They found "various bones," a "yellow bag," and some kind of metal object.

    More evidence was found during an FBI search in January, but those items have not been publicly identified. The evidence is awaiting analysis at a crime lab in Roanoke.

    http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/bedf...ation/31433586
    The man in my avatar may have killed two innocent teenagers Abigail Williams and Liberty German. If you know who he is Please call the tip line. There is a reward of $250,000 - Tel- 844.459.5786 or email: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    The dead cannot cry out for justice. It is a duty of the living to do so for them. Lois McMaster Bujold.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplifymylife2014 View Post
    HistoryDetective63 and beachlvr0811 and others:

    Was it at the property of Elizabeth Welch Parker (RAW2's sister) that a trailer existed and still IS there??

    Does anyone know WHO would live there or stay there temporarily?
    I've answered questions like this on one of the other threads...the trailer isn't there any longer, it was removed when the new property owners bought the property. It sat to the right of the house and yes, it was on Lizzie and Allen Parker's land...their oldest son Allen, Jr. lived there for a while.
    When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.

    Mark Twain

  13. #73
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    Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaynezWorld View Post
    After 40 years, I would have to concede that there is very little chance that any tape recorders, security uniforms or other possible evidence is still around. Definitely worthwhile to search but I think it is implausible, unless we're talking about serious hoarders.
    Exactly my sentiment.

  14. #74
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    In the backwoods of Virginia
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    When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.

    Mark Twain

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    I've taken RichardLewis' map from this previous post and modified it to show 3D terrain elevation. The Parker property is about 35 acres, The Welch property about 1 acre. You can see how steep the terrain is. The top of the mountain is about half mile distance from the main road, and is about 400 feet higher.

    I've also added faint red lines to show property boundaries. The faint yellow line is a jeep trail to the top of the mountain, and a yellow cross shows the approximate location of the cemetery.


    A = Vacant property
    B = Parker house
    C = Trailer

    Taylor_Mountain_5A.jpg

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