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  1. #1
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    What do the profilers say?

    According to FBI profiler Gregg McCrary:
    For instance, McCrary said evidence at the scene strongly disputes any theory that the killer may have been a disgruntled employee of Ramsey. "This crime was not about getting back at the father," said McCrary, who couldn't recall a case of "someone killing a kid to get back at a parent." He said the sexual assault of JonBenet "was a deviant, psychopathic sexual behavior, not an expression of anger at the father."

    If revenge on the father had been a motive, McCrary said, "the killer would have displayed the body; he wouldn't have hidden it in the basement."

    The profiler said the body would have been placed in a manner "to shock and offend" John Ramsey if anger or hate or revenge had been the motive.

    Additionally, he said that by assaulting JonBenet, killing her, taking her from an upper-floor bedroom to a far corner of the basement and writing a lengthy ransom note - all negated a revenge killing.

    "If that had been the reason for a killer being in the house that night," McCrary said, "they would have killed the little girl and gotten out as fast as possible."

    http://www.corpus-delicti.com/mccrary_jbr.html

    Let's discuss criminal profiling and what the experts have said about the murder of JBR.

  2. #2
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    Nehemiah , now you're gonna' make me drag out the books that live under my bed with the dust bunnies.
    I won't say "much" until I re-read, however, I do believe Douglas felt that it was "the other" who erred when commenting on a case he had not been briefed on. The "heart" felt statement, came after interviews and a degree of investigative coverage. No other profilers had direct "dealings" with this case.

  3. #3
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    I found this of interest from the article:
    "McCrary said the parents should have been interviewed separately, not jointly, for the profiling work to be valid. "That's always the correct way to do this. It's fundamental," McCrary said. "You separate the people, you interview them independently, you lock them into statements and then you compare." To do otherwise virtually invalidates the effort, he said. And he wasn't impressed with Douglas' conclusion that John Ramsey is telling the truth. "I've talked to guilty offenders in the penitentiary, and some of them are so manipulative and persuasive that they almost have you believing they didn't do it," he told me yesterday."

    Sissi, get those books out! This is a good excuse to clean. LOL

  4. #4
    Same here Sissi...tee hee!
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  5. #5
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    WHERE was Mr Joseph Duncan when this happened????
    Prayers for all murdered wives and children. My posts are my opinion only.

  6. #6
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    The FBI's Child Serial Killer Unit that was consulted on this case said, among many things, there was "staging within staging" in this crime and that the perp's actions (including the note) were a desperate attempt to answer the question of "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS (death)".

    Robert Ressler and Greg McCrary, both emminent and well respected profilers, both have said the FAMILY needs to be looked at very closely. The evidence simply points that way.
    This post is my opinion.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    The FBI's Child Serial Killer Unit that was consulted on this case said, among many things, there was "staging within staging" in this crime and that the perp's actions (including the note) were a desperate attempt to answer the question of "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS (death)".

    Robert Ressler and Greg McCrary, both emminent and well respected profilers, both have said the FAMILY needs to be looked at very closely. The evidence simply points that way.
    "It is highly, highly unusual. I mean, the whole thing is totally bizarre. I've never, in my 35-year career, seen anything like this."

    --Robert Ressler, 1997

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat
    "It is highly, highly unusual. I mean, the whole thing is totally bizarre. I've never, in my 35-year career, seen anything like this."

    --Robert Ressler, 1997
    Next to hand writting expert I think profiler is probably the most worthless, money stealing waste of time. They are not far above and may be below psychics on the crime fighting food chain.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman
    Next to hand writting expert I think profiler is probably the most worthless, money stealing waste of time. They are not far above and may be below psychics on the crime fighting food chain.
    Zman,

    What do you think happened that night?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman
    Next to hand writting expert I think profiler is probably the most worthless, money stealing waste of time. They are not far above and may be below psychics on the crime fighting food chain.
    I dont know how you expect this case to be solved with any outside professional help. Must be up to you to work out the RN and profile the killer.


  11. #11
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    I don't know, do profilers rely heavily on statistics, if so , maybe they can be replaced by computers? Psychics on the other hand, ( I don't believe are psychic) I believe , organize knowledge and experiences better than the rest of us.
    The statistics are flawed, when ya' take out the variables, poverty, substance abuse, and mental illness, they are worthless in suggesting parents as perps. The neighborhood was upscale, soooooo the bpd did the same, they dismissed the neighbors. That's where we have found the last round of child killers, right there "on the block". Maybe someone should go back and look!

  12. #12
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    This is from June 1997 and has some errors. It still mentions the "no footprints in the snow" nonsense. However, I thought the quote from Keppel was interesting.

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0608jon.htm

    [...]

    Relinquishing the scene

    Boulder police simply didn't have the experience to handle the case, says a national expert in homicide investigations.
    "It's not unusual for a department to find itself in unprecedented ground,'' Robert Keppel said. "They don't have many murders in Boulder, let alone murders of this consequence.''
    Keppel is the lead criminal investigator for the attorney general's office in the state of Washington. He wrote the just-completed national study "Case Management for Missing-Children Homicide Investigations.'' As a former police detective, he spent 15 years on the trail of Ted Bundy.
    In cities where there are few homicides, Keppel said, "Not only are detectives inexperienced, but their supervisors are inexperienced. They don't know how to tell people what to do. They don't know how to structure an investigation.''
    Tom Wickman, now the lead investigator on the case, has been a detective for only a year, and this is his first murder case. Eller, his boss, has never led a homicide investigation. Neither has Koby, the department's chief.
    "If you don't have the experiential background, and if you don't request someone who does have it to come in, you are steps behind the killer,'' Keppel said. "You cannot even expect, from a rational perspective, that they would know some of the proper procedures to utilize.''
    For example, the Boulder Police Department was fully prepared to turn the Ramseys' home back over to them the night of Dec. 26, hours after JonBenet's body was wheeled out of the residence, sources say.
    It was only after firm orders to the contrary from Hunter's office that police abandoned plans to relinquish the crime scene.
    Eight more days of searching, with help from the CBI and the Boulder County Sheriff's Department, would follow before the Ramseys got their house back.
    Boulder police can't be faulted for lacking experience in homicide investigations, but observers say they should have conceded that they couldn't cover every base alone.
    The News has learned that while the FBI's help was accepted on a limited basis, even that assistance was not entirely welcomed.
    Boulder detectives followed the Ramseys in the final days of 1996 to Georgia, where JonBenet was buried, and the FBI had offered to put as many agents on the ground as needed to trace the movements of anyone associated with the Ramseys, who were clearly the detectives' prime suspects.
    No thanks, Boulder police said.
    "That's a tragedy,'' Keppel said. "If they haven't done a good job of investigating the case, that's a real tragedy.''
    [...]

    Also, there is a quote from Ressler in which he seems to have changed his stance somewhat on the Ramseys. He allows that the murderer could be someone from their circle of friends, acquaintances, and employees but I can't find it. I posted it sometime last year on Jayelles site.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    I don't know, do profilers rely heavily on statistics, if so , maybe they can be replaced by computers? Psychics on the other hand, ( I don't believe are psychic) I believe , organize knowledge and experiences better than the rest of us.
    The statistics are flawed, when ya' take out the variables, poverty, substance abuse, and mental illness, they are worthless in suggesting parents as perps. The neighborhood was upscale, soooooo the bpd did the same, they dismissed the neighbors. That's where we have found the last round of child killers, right there "on the block". Maybe someone should go back and look!
    "Profiling is not just a personality assessment of the UNSUB, but includes other types of data. Noting an UNSUB’s age, race, sex, occupation, educational level, social support system, type of employment, and other sociological factors are just as important as evidence of a character disorder. Added to that is the significance of the type of place a killer chooses as a body dump site, such as Ted Bundy’s preference for the heavily wooded mountains outside Seattle. That's where a wholly different type of analysis comes in..." http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal...2.html?sect=20

  14. #14
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    "A good psychological profile is an educated attempt to provide parameters about the type of person who committed a certain crime, based on the idea that people tend to be slaves to their psychology and will inevitably leave clues. The kinds of information sought include:

    the offender's gender
    the MO
    any evidence of an organized or disorganized personality
    geographic stability vs. transience
    evidence of being impulsive or compulsive
    the type of "personation" or signature at the scene
    the type of fantasy that seems to be involved
    evidence of ritual
    whether a "trophy" was taken

    A profile is most easily developed if the offender displays some evidence of psychopathology, such as sadistic torture, postmortem mutilation, or pedophilia. Some killers leave a “signature”— a behavioral manifestation of a personality quirk, such as staging the corpse for the most humiliating exposure or tying ligatures with a complicated bow. This helps to link crime scenes and alert law enforcement officers to the presence of a serial rapist or killer. If a pattern is detected, it may also help to predict future possible attacks or the most probable encounter sites. According to Douglas, the "signature," or behavior done for emotional satisfaction, is key: "I've found that signature is a more reliable guide to the behavior of serial offenders than an MO. That's because the MO evolves, while the emotional reasoning that triggers the signature doesn't."

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal...2.html?sect=20

  15. #15
    Nehemiah,

    Maybe what is making it difficult for the profilers is that there were a number of people present at JonBenet's murder and involved in the crime scene stageing.

    Maybe the actual murderer left the scene immediately.

    Maybe the others were just plain ordinary paedophiles who normally did not kill the children they abused and the subsequent hiding of JonBenet's body was done by them.

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