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  1. #1
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    Change of beliefs

    I have followed this case since the first broadcast of Paradise Lost on HBO. At first I believed that the WM3 had been railroaded into prison. I guess because I was a little weird in high school, and listened to hard rock music, I initially empathized with the three. The other two movies only reinforced my beliefs. I didn't do any more studying on this case for more than 10 years. Now I found this thread, and the link to Callahan's. After reviewing most of the evidence there, I have decided to go the other way. Remember that the PL series was produced by HBO/ Time Warner. The two producers were also the producers of a documentary on Metallica. This is why Metallica songs are used throughout the series. But I also viewed the documents in evidence produced by the defendants themselves. DE was hospitalized at least 3 times in mental hospitals. By his own admission, he was homicidal, suicidal, schizophrenic, depressed, etc. And no matter what anyone says, they all plead guilty to the murders under the Alford Plea. If I were actually innocent, there is no way I would plead guilty. They were, and are guilty. They make great folk heroes, but they are still criminals. <mod snip>. I live about 30 miles from there. Same as with the JBR murder. Patsy was from Parkersburg, WV. Charles Manson had relatives in WV. Sad to say, the WM3 are sick, twisted, rapists, and child killers. Maybe someday the world will know the truth. Check out the site, WM3truth.com. Plus Callahan.8k.com.
    Last edited by Tricia; 11-14-2014 at 01:21 PM. Reason: No name calling

  2. #2
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    Why should any of them have faith in the system and rot in prison for even another minute as they have been for the past 20 years, expecting the "truth" and justice to come out now when it hasn't even come close to ever doing so? Can you really blame them? Sit in prison for at least another 2 years (if not longer) and still not be guaranteed freedom or plead guilty via an Alford Plea and walk out of prison today? You say you would choose the former, and I won't disagree because I don't know you personally, but I'd say they did what 90% of the population would do in a similar situation.

    Listen, I'm neither a WM3 supporter nor a Non, so please spare me any labels before I say this: the plea has nothing to do, one way or the other, with whether these 3 are actually guilty of this crime. Nothing.

  3. #3
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    They are guilty by their own admission. JM snitched them all out. Everything he told them about the location of the crime was accurate. He even told them where to find the bottle of Evan Williams he had been drinking from that day. Lo and behold, they found it. Before I discored the site with the evidence, my opinion was about like everyone else's. It was based on the docudramas Paradise Lost. No real evidence of guilt was ever presented in those movies. Lawyers, and movie producers, are very good at making people look sweet and innocent. Now everyone wants to point the finger at anyone but the true culprits. The WM3's alibis fell apart. Their stories changed from one year to the next to fit the facts. No one has been able to confirm their tales of victimization in prison. And Peter Jackson's support of them proves nothing. He is a master of fantasy, not truth. We won't even mention the other celebrity supporters. Judge Burnett should be given a medal.

  4. #4
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    whonos is offline thanks to Georges Lemaître for "Hubble's Law"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukrberserker23 View Post
    They are guilty by their own admission. JM snitched them all out. Everything he told them about the location of the crime was accurate. He even told them where to find the bottle of Evan Williams he had been drinking from that day. Lo and behold, they found it. Before I discored the site with the evidence, my opinion was about like everyone else's. It was based on the docudramas Paradise Lost. No real evidence of guilt was ever presented in those movies. Lawyers, and movie producers, are very good at making people look sweet and innocent. Now everyone wants to point the finger at anyone but the true culprits. The WM3's alibis fell apart. Their stories changed from one year to the next to fit the facts. No one has been able to confirm their tales of victimization in prison. And Peter Jackson's support of them proves nothing. He is a master of fantasy, not truth. We won't even mention the other celebrity supporters. Judge Burnett should be given a medal.
    I continue to be amazed by the admission of 98% of the WM3 supporters that their belief in innocence is the result of a movie, which is like letting someone else make your decisions, rather than individual research, reviewing all available information. Such as Damien's hospital records. People who are mentally unstable do not necessarily want to kill and drink (or even lick) blood etc, etc. This was/is one scary kid and I have no idea how anyone could read that information and determine otherwise. And how could a supporter choose to Not read it and feel comfortable about their support?
    Lori was just an extremely lonely, insecure woman in the middle of NYC and developed an embarrassing fantasy for herself. I think we all know that this will come to an end someday, according to her ability to deny reality. Which is out of bounds, already. She has come from telling D that he needed to get over his interest in the occult to a place where she has totally repressed her repulsion. Either that or she is heavily medicated and in denial that she is living with a man whose interests range from tattoos to Tarot cards. Landscape Architecture is another world and he does not seem capable of thinking beyond New Age/Occult gibberish
    The only thing they have in common is an obsession with Damien.

  5. #5
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    The real problem is that people see something on TV, and believe everything they see. When I watched the first PL movie on HBO, I couldn't decide who did it. After the other 2 movies, I started accepting the premise that they were framed. I changed my mind after finding this forum, and viewing the evidence on Callahan's. Normal people don't go around sucking blood, and wanting to be vampires.Read Damien's application for SSI. Listing yourself as homicidal, suicidal, schizophrenic, etc. is not normal. At least he was honest about it. Maybe the only partially innocent perp here is Jesse Miskelly. Even if he only watched everything that happened, he is still guilty. And by his own admission. Oh well, now they are all the rock stars of child murder. How cool that DE hangs out with Johnny Depp. Need I say more?

  6. #6
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    1.) Funny thing about Callahans. Two of the runners are supporters and one of them Christian became a supporter BECAUSE he gathered all those documents. Before he thought they were guilty.

    2.) Jesse didn't get a lot wrong; He got practically everything wrong. Given that he spent months on trial hearing what the prosecutor had to say it's not a shock to think that maybe he remembered some details from all that and had an internalized false confession (basically the suspect really thinks they did it or doubts their memories). Given that the prosecution did try to move Jessie without his lawyer's consent (Judge Burnett acknowledged this happened and had to make a ruling "in my den in my underwear") they would have been more than willing to meet with Jesse behind his lawyer's backs. Internalized false confessions do happen.

    3.) Given that JMB was a violent abusive creep but turned out to be innocent no Damien's mental state is not conclusive. Given that Terry Hobbs is ALSO an abusive **** he's as open to suspicion as anyone (that's one of the main reasons he's a suspect. He's a vicious ******* and he actually has a history of violence, such as sexually assaulting a neighbor for reporting his abuse of his first family)) and no alibi (David Jacobi retracted among other things, his own account would have made him see the murder if it occurred the prosecution's way and

    4.) The Evan Williams bottle doesn't prove a damn thing. There is no dna evidence connecting Miskelley to the bottle, evan williams is fairly common whiskey, and Jesse's overall account of what happened still makes no sense. It's a red herring by desperate people.

    5.) The alibis may not actually fail. Multiple people put Jesse in the trailer park, the general consensus is that he was consistent with attending wrestling, and given that these were teenagers they might have misremembered a few things like exact time. They had no reason to remember what was too them an ordinary day.

    6.) Overall the general theme (the police had jesse in confessions for hours and only showed part of it, the fact that he was mentally retarded as shown by being in a special needs class, that the prosecution's "expert" was an incompetent boob) of Paradise Lost is pretty accurate.

  7. #7
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    First off, and just in general, most supporters have done a massive amount of research for themselves. Almost everything is right there at Callahans. Documentaries might instigate interest in something, for nons and supporters alike, but the assumption that supports saw the PL documentaries and then experienced some holy revelation and suffered mass psychosis is just ludicrous. I don't fathom why so many nons keep repeating this to themselves like some kind of mantra.

    The difference, and this should become apparent to anyone who has actually taken the time to have a look through forums such as this, lies in how nons and supporters choose to look at the information available. For me, it was actually reading JM's confessions, the trial transcripts, etc. that made all the difference. Have a proper look through the forums, and you will see for yourself. Most things that have been brought up in this thread has been adressed a million times over. Supporters and nons will never agree and no amount of online bickering will change that.

    Furthermore, with the Alford Plea you accept that a guilty plea will be in "your best interest" although you maintain your own innonce. It's not an admission of guilt per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by ukrberserker23 View Post
    Even more proof is that Damien married an idiot girl from Morgantown, WV. I live about 30 miles from there. Same as with the JBR murder. Patsy was from Parkersburg, WV. Charles Manson had relatives in WV.
    Quote Originally Posted by whonos View Post
    Lori was just an extremely lonely, insecure woman in the middle of NYC and developed an embarrassing fantasy for herself. I think we all know that this will come to an end someday, according to her ability to deny reality. Which is out of bounds, already. She has come from telling D that he needed to get over his interest in the occult to a place where she has totally repressed her repulsion. Either that or she is heavily medicated and in denial that she is living with a man whose interests range from tattoos to Tarot cards. Landscape Architecture is another world and he does not seem capable of thinking beyond New Age/Occult gibberish
    The only thing they have in common is an obsession with Damien.
    What's up with this? Why on earth is LD relevant?

  8. #8
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    Lorri is relevant because she married DE, and has helped organize most of his appeals. Just watched most of West of Memphis today. Still not impressed. Just a slicker version of PL. I will grant that TH has a lot in favor for him as a suspect. The whiskey bottle is important, because JM knew right where it was, and led police to it. Granted, he is not the brightest bulb on the christmas tree, but I believe his original confession was sincere. And it only took 2 and a half hours for him to confess, not 12, as stated in PL, and WoM. If TH is involved, it is in collusion with the WM3. The Alford Plea states that the defendants acknowledge that there is enough evidence for the state to convict them. They had to admit this to get the deal. If they know there is enough evidence to convict, then they know they did it.DE once called it a thrill killing in an interview with law enforcement. He was right.DE is a sick ******, and quite capable of something like this. I don't base my conclusions on witness statements, but on physical evidence. I'm not concerned with the hair DNA evidence. TH was just in a whole group of people whose hair it could be. Why don't you check your own shoe laces, and see if you find a hair caught in one of them? I pulled a hair out of my synthetic shirt sleeve today, that had already gone through one cycle of washing. Hadn't worn that shirt in over a month. None of the movies pointed out that when the police applied Luminol to the creek bank, it lit up like a Christmas tree. The trial lasted 17 days. Count up how many minutes of the trial that we saw in all 4 docudramas. Less than one hour, I'm guessing. Also the part about John Douglas donating his expertise to the case. My ass! JD does nothing for free. He was paid to help the Ramseys on the JBR murder. And he was working for guilty clients. Seems history repeats itself. He is paid to give whatever opinion is asked for. Sorry, just can't buy it anymore.

  9. #9
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    Thank you! and to the discussion!!
    Neither the state nor the defense team are saints, and there is usually plenty of incompetence to go around on both sides of the courtroom.

  10. #10
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    Well, I watched a few more interview videos, and listened to the audio confessions of JM. Still haven't changed my thinking much. I am considering the possibility of collusion between TH and the WM3. WoM was interesting because it is really funny how many witnesses had perfect memories after 18 years. Of course, it is easy to remember things when there are so many sources available to refresh their memories. I'm not an expert, but I have a degree in criminal justice.Long before CSI, I used to watch all the detective shows of the 70's and 80's. Quincy MD was one of my favorites. I have over 10 years experience in security, and was once a store detective. I had to arrest shoplifters, and file reports to law enforcement, and the courts. I have always been interested in true crime. I like to follow the evidence, and not emotional sentiment. I came to WS about 3 years ago studying the JBR case. I have looked at some of the other major cases here, but this one drew me because of the PL series. There was almost no evidence presented there. I just saw photos today of JB's army boots that he wore. The boots were muddy, but had brand new black laces in them. I'm also ex-military, and can say that doesn't wash. I used to clean my boots everyday. If you have muddy boots, the laces will be filthy too. One of the old laces was used on one of the victims. I also have a son who will be 8 years old in January, so I have a special interest in this case. Wish I could still believe them innocent, but I can't.


  11. #11
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    Interesting...............

  12. #12
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    I'm curious, ukrberserker23, about how you reconcile the fact that LE did - [unequivocally, inarguably, because the proof is right there in the words, in the records available at Callahan's for all to see] - led Jessie's confession along, specifically regarding the time of day he said he first saw the boys (in the morning, then lunchtime, then the evening.. each time changing his answer at suggestions from the interviewer). How do you account for the fact he said the boys missed their bus to school - and 100% for sure, those boys did no such thing? I am genuinely curious.

    It's so glaringly a led process that it's one of the first things which led me away from belief in their guilt.

    Mind you, Echols (for several reasons) has never been and still is not off my radar. But he's nowhere near the top of my list, to put him there I'd have to buy into some really shady shenanigans pulled by WMPD whose investigations in places were shoddy, in other downright dishonest, that Satan-obsessed weirdo Jerry Driver (himself a criminal) and Judge Burnett -- c'mon.. a medal? His behaviour during the trial was just disgusting.

    Boots -- - if the killer wore boots, he'd have to have been standing in water past his knees or more to place the bodies and plant the clothes down in the mud. Those boots would have had mud evidence all over the *inside* as well - as a former horsewoman, I can also tell you this is a fact, having stood waist high in a yellow clay dam after being dumped on my ass in it by a bolshy horse. Boots *caked* in mud, socks soaked in it, and the inside of the boots loaded with silt. And those boots were good deal more water tight that Jason's.

    Tell me, what evidence was pulled off the inside of those boots? How far up the inside did the silt residue go? If you can tell me there was mud/silt evidence all on the inside of the boots, I might have to rethink my opinion on those.

    I actually find it rude and unnecessarily provocative of drama that you want to blah this and that about 'supporters' and kick off your presence here by putting down people who don't agree with you. Apparently without clue #1 as to who you're talking about. For what it's worth, you're dead wrong, where I am concerned. I'd appreciate it if you could express yourself without needing to belittle other posters, especially with a pile of BS assumptions about their knowledge and motives. It's poor form, poor conversation and proves nothing.

    That said, welcome to the forum.
    _____________
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  13. #13
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    Anybody with common sense can look at those so-called trials and see that the WM3 were railroaded. WMP snowballed the investigation. Look up what the Alford Plea means and maybe just maybe you will begin to understand their reasoning for taking it. That doesn't mean they are guilty......

    Oh, and statistics show that children are harmed and killed by someone THEY KNOW....not complete strangers!! Detective 101....you investigate the family first then once they have been eliminated you work your way to other suspects!! Happy Friday
    JUSTICE FOR MICHELLE AND RYLAN


    All posts, unless sourced, are my opinion only and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you!!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukrberserker23 View Post
    They are guilty by their own admission. JM snitched them all out. Everything he told them about the location of the crime was accurate. He even told them where to find the bottle of Evan Williams he had been drinking from that day. Lo and behold, they found it. Before I discored the site with the evidence, my opinion was about like everyone else's. It was based on the docudramas Paradise Lost. No real evidence of guilt was ever presented in those movies. Lawyers, and movie producers, are very good at making people look sweet and innocent. Now everyone wants to point the finger at anyone but the true culprits. The WM3's alibis fell apart. Their stories changed from one year to the next to fit the facts. No one has been able to confirm their tales of victimization in prison. And Peter Jackson's support of them proves nothing. He is a master of fantasy, not truth. We won't even mention the other celebrity supporters. Judge Burnett should be given a medal.
    People keep going back to this whiskey bottle like its some kind of smoking gun. He doesn't even mention the bottle in the first confession or the clarification confession. In fact it wasn't until the feb 94 confession after trial (where more information was learned about the specifics of the murders) that I see anything about a whiskey bottle. The investigator claimed he checked underpasses and found a broken bottle similar to the brand of whiskey that JM described but did they check it for his prints? dna? how to do we know it was even his. If it was his it only means he might have been drinking in the underpass at some point in time but not specifically when. What reason did JM have for bringing up the bottle. Was it a hope for leniency, to mark him as cooperative with the law? It was not found at the murder scene, I need to stress that for sure.

  15. #15
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    Sorry, I wasn't belittling anyone. Believe what you want. Obviously, Johnny Depp and Eddie Vedder have solved the case. Let's all go home.As for any of them being innocent, the only one might be JM. But according to the UCC, even if you only watch someone else murder someone, you are guilty as well. JB's mother stated she was the one who threw the knife in the lake behind their house. Watch and listen to all the interviews of the WM3. They don't talk like innocent people. Most of their talk is denial, and only about themselves. None of them really care about the victims. Knowing how lazy small town cops are, I doubt if anyone checked the inside of JB's boots. Obviously though, Damien has all his supporters under his spell. He is a pathological liar, and changes his story to fit the circumstances. Like he said in an interview, He is the West Memphis Boogeyman. People will tell their children all about him. Charles Manson had lots of followers who killed for him too. <mod snip>
    Last edited by Tricia; 11-14-2014 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Please stop with snarkiness.

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