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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Are there any indications of a serial killer in these murders?

    This has been posted on another forum with more details if anyone is interested in following up.

    ~If someone with legal experience or an interest in false confessions would like to watch the videotape of the Esar Met confession they can pm or email me~
    Number of people who have watched the confession so far: 0

    ~Almost all of the information below is from newspaper accounts, the police report and similar sources~
    ~If you would like a link to the source of any facts listed just ask.~
    ~Things that involve speculation, such as indications that the killer is a law enforcement officer, are worded as speculation~

    Two murders in two years. In the same Salt Lake city neighborhood.

    Both victims very small children, ages 5 and 7.
    Both cases involved massive searches with hundreds of people and police conducting door to door searches.
    Both bodies were eventually found about 100 feet from where the children lived, in the basements of neighbors.
    Both involved extremely unusual acts of violence.

    Two people arrested.

    Both confessed.

    The first confession was obtained by a Mormon FBI agent who had a hunch the suspect, also Mormon, might be guilty. The FBI agent wrote a book called Heaven's Hammer in which he seems to imply 'god' wanted him to extract a confession. In his book, the FBI agent says he needed "to find the right theme to induce a confession".

    The suspect has an obvious personality disorder that would make him prone to giving a false confession but after 10 days the body of the victim was found in his, Craig Gregerson's, apartment. So was he guilty? Or was the body placed in his apartment by someone else? Initial reports say that police searched the buildings four times. Later reports are contradictory. Neighbors reported seeing Gregerson's wife around the house at the time but police claimed he lived alone.

    The FBI agent had videotaped the other interviews he conducted in the case but neglected to videotape the confession even though video equipment was in place. The language of the initial written confession Gregerson supposedly made is not consistent with other material Gregerson wrote. It contains legalistic expressions like "moment and opportunity" and "intention and purpose" that strongly suggest the words are not his.

    Later the prosecutor would indicate privately to other law enforcement personnel that there were problems with the confession. It is possible there were discrepancies between the confession and the evidence.

    In December 2006 Craig Gregerson pled guilty to murdering Destiny Norton, in order to avoid the death penalty.

    He was immediately sentenced to life without parole.

    About one year and four months after Gregerson pled guilty another child was killed less than a mile from the first.

    This one was solved quickly. The police obtained a confession within hours of finding the body.

    While the second suspect was in jail awaiting trial the FBI agent who obtained the 1st confession wrote odd diatribes against Muslims, which anyone can find on Google.


    The second confession, involving Esar Met, was videotaped.

    In May 2014 Esar Met was sentenced to life without parole for the 2008 killing of Hser Ner Moo.


    An abundance of evidence appears to support the likelihood that Esar Met is not guilty of the crime for which he was sentenced to life without parole.

    In addition to discrepancies involving lab reports on DNA evidence there is compelling evidence that the case was steered in a certain direction to limit the pool of suspects. In other words the purpose of the investigation was not to find the killer but rather to adjust the evidence so that Esar Met would appear guilty.

    For example the victim had microscopic traces of epithelial DNA under her nails. It seems likely that the killer's DNA would be among those traces. But instead of asking the lab to isolate each contributor of DNA, the lab was asked only to test for a few people, notably the suspect and family members. The suspect had horsed around with the victim in the time before the murder so his DNA under her nails, along with DNA from her family members, would not actually have evidentiary value. However the evidence was developed in such a way that it could be presented to a jury as appearing to be relevant to the murder.

    The most troubling aspect of the Hser Ner Moo case, and an unknown in the Destiny Norton case, involve time of death. Hser Ner Moo was found in a state of rigor mortis. The amount of time rigor mortis lasts depends on various factors. Generally children and old people enter and pass rigor mortis more quickly. In a warm setting it also comes and goes more quickly. The people living in the house were all tropical Asian refugees and the thermostat was probably set fairly warm. Also when someone struggles before death blood chemistry is affected in a way that may hasten rigor mortis.

    A central part of the police account of the case is that Hser Ner Moo died within an hour of disappearing.

    But 29 hours later, when her body was found, she was still in full rigor mortis according to the reports of the first medical people to examine the body. The forensics of the Jonbenet Ramsey case may be useful since that case was heavily studied by experts and the victims were of similar age, size etc.

    Esar Met is known to have left the house at roughly the time the child disappeared. The latest he could possibly have left was one hour after the disappearance. The implication is that she died some time after he left. At the trial the prosecutor tried to obscure this by suggesting that she was 'dying' when he left. But her injuries, including a blow to the chest that punctured her heart, strangulation, an arm snapped and bent at an unnatural angle, and others, are not consistent with her having survived long after the attack.

    Also the first people on the scene said there was a lot of blood. A child that size has a total blood volume between two and four liters. Even if she survived the hole in her heart, the strangulation, and other injuries, the blood loss would have been fatal within a short time. Even if you give the prosecution the benefit of any reasonable medical scenario, the victim was certainly dead within an hour of receiving those injuries. In other words the key question in determining guilt per time of death is [i]when did she receive those injuries[i]?

    Is the report from the medical examiner at trial helpful? He puts time of death in a range somewhere from 12 hours before she disappeared to 12 hours before she was found, i.e., 17 hours after disappearance. So no he is not helpful, despite having access to more detailed post mortem examination info. Nevertheless, if time of death was as the prosecution states, within an hour of disappearing, the body's post death transition through rigor mortis is an extreme statistical outlier.

    When police conducted their initial search of the apartment complex they talked to the residents of 34 of the 35 apartments and searched those apartments. At the 35th apartment no one seemed to be home so the police didn't search it.

    In fact the suspect Esar Met was miles away, at his aunt and uncle's house.

    But four people were in that apartment, along with Hser Ner Moo.

    What we don't know is whether she was still alive.

    Additionally, I have the confession he gave to the police shortly after he was arrested article and will pay someone who speaks that Burmese dialect/language to translate the interview. There is a translator in the video who is translating the conversation between the FBI agent and Esar Met but court comments by a Salt Lake detective suggest the translation is flawed.

    This original posts on this case are at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=638161.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=645898.0

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    This is very interesting. I have been to Burma and am very familiar with the ethnic tensions there. Most of the people who lived in Haer's apt complex were Karin people. They are a minority group in Burma with their own language and culture. They have been involved in a long struggle for autonomy in Burma. Perhaps 25% are Christian, the rest are Buddhist. They have suffered
    Much discriminate and outright repression by the government but they are generally accepted by other ethnic groups in Burma and have not suffered from internecine violence.

    Muslims in Burma come from a number of ethnic groups. They are 5 to 10% of the population. They are mostly descendants of immigrants from India or Bangladesh. While the government has tried to force other ethnic groups to be more "Burmese", they have tried to force the Muslims to leave. Widespread ethnic violence has been directed against them. Often this violence is triggered by the claim that a Muslim has raped a Buddhist woman. If a Buddhist (or a Christian) were to kill a woman, a Muslim would be the perfect scapegoat.

    I do not know enough about the forensic evidence to say the guy is innocent but there may be more to this than meets the eye.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by kemo View Post
    This is very interesting. I have been to Burma and am very familiar with the ethnic tensions there. Most of the people who lived in Haer's apt complex were Karin people. They are a minority group in Burma with their own language and culture. They have been involved in a long struggle for autonomy in Burma. Perhaps 25% are Christian, the rest are Buddhist. They have suffered
    Much discriminate and outright repression by the government but they are generally accepted by other ethnic groups in Burma and have not suffered from internecine violence.

    Muslims in Burma come from a number of ethnic groups. They are 5 to 10% of the population. They are mostly descendants of immigrants from India or Bangladesh. While the government has tried to force other ethnic groups to be more "Burmese", they have tried to force the Muslims to leave. Widespread ethnic violence has been directed against them. Often this violence is triggered by the claim that a Muslim has raped a Buddhist woman. If a Buddhist (or a Christian) were to kill a woman, a Muslim would be the perfect scapegoat.

    I do not know enough about the forensic evidence to say the guy is innocent but there may be more to this than meets the eye.
    It is almost certain that the murder of Destiny Norton and Hser Ner Moo are related in some way.

    Your comment makes me wonder if maybe a roommate of Esar Met wanted to 'set him up' in an imitation of the Destiny Norton killing, which occured only 15 blocks away two years earlier.

    One of the roommates had arrived home earlier than the other three that day and the evidence does seem to be that she died well after Esar Met left.

    There were many mistakes made in the investigation of both cases. It is not right to cast suspicion on a roommate without some evidence but the police apparently were not too concerned with evidence. They had been roundly criticized in the Destiny Norton case when the body turned up in a place they had already searched. Also the governor and other influential people were weighing in on the Hser Ner Moo case publicly. The police were under pressure to catch someone quickly and they did. There is still quite a bit of evidence, notably dna, that has not been properly examined.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    I've been reading the site esarmet.com. My initial impression is that you have to be real unlucky to have someone's blood on your clothing and your DNA under their fingernails and then have that person turn up dead in your apartment.

    What kind of evidence did the defense provide that Esar and the child had been "horsing around"?

    I'm a little confused about the crime scene. It is very rare for an apartment to have a basement. Am I correct to assume that the only entrance to Esar's apartment was through the upstairs apartment where the 4 other men lived?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    This is really interesting. I have an interest in false confessions and the way they're obtained, so will happily take a look at the video if you like.

    I think I will have to do a ton more reading before I can venture any thoughts at all on this. But thanks for bringing the cases to this forum and laying out your take on it and all that information so thoroughly and concisely.
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    The confession will boggle you. Even if there were no other evidence the confession is absurd. The accused gives inaccurate accounts that don't match the evidence and the fbi agent tells him he is getting close, then helps him realign events so they suit the evidence.

    I have to convert the video to a smaller format so I can upload it and will do that soon. Parts of the video have triggers that might make it unsuitable for people who have had certain experiences so the unedited full video should not be on youtube.

    It is always posdible anyone could be guilty of anything but this case is highly suspect.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    addressing kemo's comment
    Here is what was known the day before the murder. In other words if you went to the apartment complex before the murder occurred you would learn this. This is from public articles about trial testimony.

    1) Hser Ner Moo and her friends used to horse around with Esar Met, including something Burmese call 'elephant rides' which is the equivalent of a piggyback ride or whatever people in your area call it. A child holds onto the back of a bigger child or an adult as the bigger person runs around.

    2) Hser Ner Moo had a cut on her finger in the days before the murder and might or might not have had a bloody nose.

    After the murder the technician noted that there were four small blood stains on the back of Esar Met's jacket. The crime scene and body were very bloody and the killer would have been covered in blood. The four drops on the back of his jacket were arranged in a linear pattern, i.e., probably from gravity.

    As for 'evidence' they had horsed around, nobody disputes that. People reliably testified about it. The prosecutor suggests it was part of a grooming behavior so that he could later do something else. Met's age and birthdate are unknown so he was given a guesstimate age by the system. He has a history of sexual relationships with older adult women but not children nor any other peculiarities.

    The child had the dna from various people under her fingernails. For some reason the lab was not asked to identify all of the people, only to find out if there was dna from Met, roommates and family members. The samples found included microscopic traces from Met and her family.

    I'm not too sure about the layout. I think living area upstairs where four Burmese Christians lived, a common area on ground floor with a television set and a basement where Met stayed. The apartment seems to have only one door and testimony was given that it was usually left unlocked except when no one was home. All of the inhabitants had lived in refugee camps where minor thefts are common and the apartment did have substantial traffic from acquaintances.

    The important point about your dna comment is that the prosecution presented the evidence innaccurately so it could be used to convict, and the defense did not push back. You might read the additional comments I made about the fbi confession of Gregerson in the first murder re the wording of the confession and note that Gregerson's other questionable confession in fact appears to have been written by his defense attorney then delivered as spoken words.

    The same person who served as Gregerson's attorney also served as Met's attorney and there is plenty of evidence that he worked a little to comfortably with the prosecution. I can see how this might be okay if there were evidence of guilt and a conviction were needed for an objective 'greater good' but that is not the case here. Rather again and again there is a pattern of a small group of men steering the case in such a way that Met is convicted.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Here is a link to the first video http://esarmet.com/video%201.m4v
    It is slow transfering them to a format that is small enough to upload and the quality of this is not high.

    Keep in mind, just before the interview he had experienced what his lawyer called 'a rough takedown'. The police had called and said they were coming over. He said he would wait there which he did. But when the police arrived instead of knocking they kicked the door down and put a pistol in his face. At trial there was testimony that he got some cuts during this and later a nurse euggested some of the cuts could have been scratches from a child. According to the last version of the confession though the child lost consciousness, shook with convulsions and died though it's not really clear.

    Also keep in mind that the translator had just finished conducting some similar interviews and knew the details of the murder. He is obviously saying a lot more words than he is translating and it isn't clear what he is saying.

    At the hearing about the translating he said he never threatened Met but he did tell him something like 'if you don't confess it will take a long time'. At one point in the confession Met asks if he will be able to say goodby to his mother if they are going to kill him. That is not on this tape, one of the later ones.

    Also note that despite the vast problems with this confession it was the defense that asked that it be suppressed. The same defense lawyer who arranged the plea deal in the Destiny Norton murder. He tried to arrange for Met to take a plea but Met declined and the lawyer then suggested his client was being difficult to work with.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    I think you *should* post the whole video to Youtube. There's worse on there, and you could always post a bolded warning on it for people who might be triggered, then it's their choice to click play or not. I'm not sure how leaving parts out would be helpful to an accurate view of what went on, is all.

    Hopefully I'll get time to really dig into this all, sometime this weekend. If \there is evidence of LE and lawyer misconduct in obtaining a conviction, then it *should* be looked at hard.
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Here is another observation after watching the whole confession again.

    The second lawyer in the Esar Met case said she thought it was a case of innocent play followed by an accidental death. I made fun of that on the website because you don't accidentally rape and kill someone and do the kind of injuries the child had while you are playing.

    However that is what Esar Met essentially confessed to. During the confession he seems to be synthesizing a story based on things that did happen sometime in the past. The fbi agent would say "why did she come to your house that day" and eventually Met would say "to watch cartoons". He said he was watching something and she switched to cartoons, which probably did happen in the past though not on that day.

    He is willing to cook up anything the fbi agent wants him to say, but he refuses to even consider rape and obviously is not aware of the worst parts of the crime. He is willing to say he is responsible for her death, even though he has the death occuring in the wrong way, but he is not willing to put a rape into his story no matter how much he is pushed.

    So that lawyer probably did believe the confession. Further, in the police report there are a lot of problems with the dna evidence regarding the rape. Dna was found with a rape kit but it was "insufficient quality or quantity" to test. Long story short I think that lawyer, Denise Porter may have really believed that Esar Met killed the child. I don't think the rest of the prosecution team believe it.

    It was a high profile case with all sorts of criticism of police fresh in people's minds from the Destiny Norton case. The police needed someone quickly to give to the media as a suspect. The very last scene in the last video there is a guy coming into the room as the confession wraps up and he says "we need some photos asap and we have to get them printed".

    Also two people have said they would watch the videos but I cannot edit the first post in which I wanted to make sure at least a few people give their opinions. So that is stuck as "zero people have watched the confession so far".

    As for youtube there are some things said on the video that would not be legal to put on youtube, aside from the issue of someone accidentally watching it. I can silence the audio where necessary though.

    With regard to lawyer misconduct etc, the first issue is whether he is innocent or guilty. They have loads of dna they collected from the crime scene, including some from an unknown person mixed with her blood. She had yanked a handful of hair out of the killer. Why no mention of that nor of the fact that Esar Met was not missing a handfull of hair? The lawyer misconduct is entertaining but the issue is guilt or innocence.
    Last edited by FleaSpirit; 11-14-2014 at 10:00 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    I have just watched this first video, twice through. I'll probably watch it a few more times and might have more to say after that, and I still need to catch up on the reading. I am not American, I only know the very basics of American law. But it seems to me the police begin the interview before this man is read his rights. Perhaps someone in law enforcement or with better knowledge of the law will explain if that's correct or not, but it seems to me he should have been read his rights before any conversation about the crime began.

    I see what you mean about the discrepancy between the length of what is spoken in Burmese, and what is said in English.

    I am somewhat confused about what the interpreter was doing there, if he is not an official interpreter. If I have it right (and I might not, some clarity on this would be good) - the interpreter is a local who wandered into the area of the crime scene? or was it the police station? looking for ways to "help". I don't understand in what capacity he was expecting to be able to "help" the police with their inquiries, but if I have it right, the police mistook him for an official interpreter and asked him to do the interview. This makes perfect sense of why this man is a terrible interpreter.

    The suspect's body language is withdrawn and tense, frankly he looks terrified, his posture is self=protective. I notice he picks up the photograph quickly when he drops it, and looks at it often. I may have some more things to say about this later.. But for now, I can say the suspect looks frightened, especially when the detective moves his chair right into Esar Met's space, crowding him and tapping the picture hard.

    The suspect is not familiar with the language or customs of America. He's been in the country, what - a month? And I don't know what the police are like in Burma, but the Burmese people I have known (who came here as political dissidents, after some troubles in Burma) had nothing good to say about police interrogations there. I have to wonder if this man was expecting to be harmed in some way, but I can't be sure of it. It did come to mind, however, as I watched his body language and the level of self-protection he exhibits.

    As I understand it so far, this interview was not permitted to be used in court - because it was faulty?

    It might take me some time to form any sort of opinion on guilt or innocence, I have hardly any information yet. I hope it's understood that I may end up not agreeing that Esar met is innocent.

    As for the lawyer - I don't understand what you mean by "entertaining", I am not here for entertainment and I m not attempting to entertain anyone. I was speaking to what you said, regarding the lawyer possibly being in collusion with police to ensure a guilty verdict, which (if I have got that right, sorry if I don't) is a very serious accusation, and I am not about to make a joke of it. What I was saying is that if this is so, then it needs to be examined for the sake of the case not being tainted, as well as a fair trial. But there'd have to be some pretty compelling evidence. If the lawyer was just a bad lawyer and failed his client in important ways, there could be grounds for a re-trial. But I'm speaking here withyout all the information, so I'll quit talking and start reading.

    Looking foward to further videos. perhaps some news articles about the case would be good too.
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    NYC to SW
    From the little I've read, things are not exactly adding up. Here are some thoughts and questions:

    If the victim was raped, was a dna test done to determine who raped her?

    Why did it take up to 10 minutes for one of 4 or 5 men to answer the door for police?

    So far I haven't seen any evidence against Esar Met, except that the victim's body was found in his bathroom.

    I can't understand the configuration of the living quarters. Did 5 men live in one, single apartment? Was it a basement apartment? Did they each have a separate room or did they share? How many people used the bathroom where the victim was found? Offhand, it doesn't seem reasonable that not one of the tenants would have noticed the victim.

    Did Met have any idea of how the victim wound up in his bathroom if he didn't kill her? Was it his personal bathroom? Did they all share one bathroom?

    Why didn't anyone find a competent interpreter in 6 years? Did we ever even hear an alibi or explanation?

    I'm wondering if several of the roommates could have had a hand in the murder. Maybe they were covering for one another. Maybe they pinned the crime on Met because he was the only one who wasn't there.

    It's certainly possible that a serial killer murdered both girls and is still at large.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Great questions, Cracka*Jaxx.

    Ah, I found that the translator came to offer the -parents- help and was swept along by police who thought he somebody official. Didn't they check for ID? Really?

    Just a few notes/links for future reference...

    Court docs

    MARCH 31

    6:18 p.m.: A friend of the child's family notified police that she was missing

    APRIL 1

    9:40 a.m.: Amber Alert issued via broadcast media

    9:56 a.m.: Amber Alert issued to law enforcement

    All witnesses called to the stand Tuesday were law enforcers or paramedics. Former South Salt Lake police officer Jacob Burton was the most emotional on the stand, wiping away tears as he recalled meeting with Hser's mother for the first time, who was crying and asking for help finding her missing daughter. He said he knew right away this case was different.

    "I responded to a fair amount of calls similar to this in my career," he said. "Call it a gut feeling, call it a mother's reaction, it wasn't just a normal missing child that hadn't returned from school."


    Nancy Grace and Marc Klaas lambast the cops for not issuing an Amber Alert. It's pretty awkward, watching the police chief try to navigate that:

    MARC KLAAS, BEYONDMISSING.COM: Well, first of all, it`s unconscionable that in a community where a high-profile missing person seems to be an annual rite of passage, that they would take a situation where a little girl who was a stranger in a strange land, doesn`t have a lot of friends, they would wait 19 hours to activate an Amber Alert. This little girl had asthma. It was cold at night. She didn`t have a lot of friends. She was very young. She had very limited language skills.

    They should have activated that Amber Alert almost immediately, and then they should have done an investigation that starts from the center and works its way out, and that would include searching all of the residences within that apartment complex, including the residence where that young man lived who apparently kidnapped and did whatever he did before he murdered that little girl. It`s absolutely unconscionable this action was not followed!


    The apartment has three levels. It's believed the suspect lived in the basement, and that the other four roommates never went there. The roommates were questioned and released.


    From what I am gathering, the apt complex was large - 100 apartments - and housed recent refugees. Met was assigned this basement apartment in the relocation process. The men upstairs were all Christians, Met is a Muslim of Indian heritage, and from what I'm reading he wasn't too welcome (one report says "shunned", link below ) and his presence there created tension in the apartment block community.



    **warning: crime scene pics. ^^ (don't those finger marks look very small..)

    Apparently Met and little Hser Ner Moo and her parents had been on opposite sides of a refugee camp in Thailand - my guess is the camp was divided by religion, to avoid conflict. Muslims and Christians in Burma don't mix and there's a deal of animosity between the cultures. So why'd the stick a non-English speaking Muslim below an apartment with a bunch of Christians in it? Kind of off topic, but it seems irresponsible to me.


    "Esar got along with everyone; he was friendly," argued defense attorney Michael Peterson. "Esar played in a friendly manner with Hser Ner Moo. They played chase, they played tag. Esar helped her learn how to ride a bike around the complex. ... Mr. Met never acted inappropriate."

    "None of [Met’s roommates] wanted to play with Hser Ner Moo, but the defendant did," prosecutor Matt Janzen said.


    Over the course of the afternoon, during which Hser Ner Moo's childhood best friend and her brother took the stand, prosecutors asked pointed questions about what kind of games the children would play with Met.

    Nane We, 15, recalled afternoons spent frolicking about the apartment complex with Hser Ner Moo. They would play tag and dig in the sandbox, she said. Sometimes, Met would give them rides on his back, pretending to be an elephant with a long trunk and a waddled walk as the girls giggled with delight.

    Nane We testified that Met never hurt her or Hser Ner Moo while they played. They were frequent guests in Met's home — an apartment he shared with four other men — but never entered Met's bedroom if they weren't searching for a place to hide in a game of hide and seek.

    Met never removed his clothes in the presence of the girls or "tickled them" inappropriately.

    "He took care of us and loved us, just like little sisters," Nane We said through a Burmese interpreter. "He helped me learn how to ride a bike, and he offered to teach Hser Ner Moo, too."

    Nane We's older brother, Maung Then Htank, who took the stand after her, said he had known Met from a refugee camp in Thailand where they both lived.

    Met had always had an affection for children, Htank said. He was playful and caring and would serve the kids ice cream.

    "The girls would be more than happy, they couldn't even wait [to play]," Htank testified through a Burmese interpreter. "When he played elephant, they would fight each other to get onto Esar's back."


    Fire Captain Paul Rasmussen added that he was taken aback when he saw the amount of blood in the shower. He said that the girl's hair was thick with blood and that rigor mortis had already set in. Maurer added: 'I saw the girl in the bottom of the shower stall, curled up, face down, her head was away from us. I could see that (her left arm) was bent back, broken.'


    The child's suffering likely didn't last more than an hour.

    But in that time, Utah's chief medical examiner testified Monday, Hser Ner Moo suffered more than a dozen "excruciating" injuries, including a fatal tear to the girl's heart.

    He walked an 11-person jury through each wound: bruises to the child's face, back and chest, internal bleeding from her skull and her heart, her lungs, kidney and pancreas were scraped and bruised, her left arm broken in two places.

    The wound to the girl's heart, a tear in its right atrium, was the most lethal.

    "This would have been excruciating pain," Grey said. "This was a homicide, a death due to an intentional action by another person."

    The child's face was bruised a deep purple, with a scratch on her left temple just above her eye. The girl's left forearm, which was broken in two places, was unnaturally bent at a near-right angle. Scratches and marks lined her chest, her back and her neck.


    Frasier, who was called on to assist in evaluating Hser Ner Moo's injuries after the autopsy had been performed, focused her testimony heavily on damage to the child's genitals, which she said were extremely rare and likely caused by forceful penetration.

    No DNA evidence suggesting a sexual assault was found at the time of the girl's death and Met has not been charged with such a crime, but Frasier testified that doesn't mean one didn't take place.


    Nothing really explains how one of Hser Ner Moo’s tiny purple shoes landed in that filthy toilet in the basement, the other shoe falling behind and beneath the porcelain.


    Delays in diagnosis can be deadly, because tears in the ascending aorta need emergency surgery. Some people die so quickly they never even make it to the hospital. Among those who do reach the hospital, if the condition is not diagnosed and treated within 48 hours, half will die.


    Traumatic Aortic Rupture

    Indeed, nearly 90% of patients with aortic injuries die before they even get to the ER. Among those who have this injury and arrive alive at the hospital, 20-30% will die in the first six hours, 40-50% in the first 24 hours and 60-80% in the first week.


    Frasier testified for an hour and a half, describing in detail the way Hser Ner Moo was injured, both through physical and sexual abuse. “She would have been in a lot of extreme pain before she died,” Frasier said.

    Frasier had examined Hser Ner Moo’s body after another doctor had performed an autopsy on the dead girl. She detailed the severe injuries Hser Ner Moo received from the rape. The Universe has decided not to print the graphic details from the testimony.

    “Injuries like this are very uncommon. We see thousands of children each year and we see about one like this a year. Injuries this bad are rare,” Frasier said.

    "In my opinion, this was a little girl who was badly beaten," Grey said. "The injuries I found in this case were severe."

    Frasier, who works at Primary Children's Medical Center, examined the body after the autopsy was completed to evaluate sexual injuries. She said the girl appeared to have been assaulted.

    "It's a rare injury. It's a lot of injury. ... Rarely do we see more injury than this," she said. "She would have cried. She would have resisted. She may have fought."

    Both doctors said the girl's injuries were inflicted before she died. Grey said he does not know how long the beating would have gone on.


    Defense attorneys have maintained that Met is an innocent man whose four roommates may have been responsible for the girl's disappearance and death.

    His lawyers have pointed to the other men's seemingly indifferent behavior after the child's parents came to their door searching for the missing girl and a rift between the defendant and his roommates over ethnic differences.


    When police located Esar Met about 10 p.m. on April 1 at his aunt's Cottonwood Heights home, he tried to flee and had to be restrained, charging documents state.

    The aunt, Mi Cho, told police her nephew had arrived the day before about 3:30 or 4 p.m. She said he did not bring a change of clothes, but spent the night on the floor. She said he had never before spent the night at her home, according to the charges.


    He said they tested numerous stains and found blood on the bathroom floor and sink, basement floor, west wall and on the handrail of the stairs.

    DNA testing showed two of the samples were a match for Hser, though one blood sample had a mix of DNA. Grundy said the major DNA profile came from the girl and the minor profile had no match, but excluded Met.

    Eight stains were found on the back of the jacket Met was wearing on March 31, 2008, and when he was arrested the next day. Four tested positive for human blood. A DNA test matched the blood to Hser.

    Grundy said only one of the stains were tested because the stains were in a linear pattern, suggesting they were from the same source.

    When asked by defense attorneys, Grundy admitted the stains could have come from rubbing up against a wall.

    Last edited by Ausgirl; 11-15-2014 at 08:08 AM.
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Todd Grey, Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah, performed an autopsy on Destiny’s body on July 25, 2006. Dr Grey observed on her body consistent with post-mortem vaginal penetration. Dr Grey opined that the manner of Destiny’s death was homicide and that the cause of death was consistent with smothering.

    Pertaining to the question of the title of this thread, and presumably the main purpose for it, I do not actually see a serial killer involved here. The two crimes do have several parellels, but the cause and manner of death are very, very different. Hser was so horrifically injured that I can barely imagine ANYone sustaining that much rage and desire to harm toward a small child without being foam-at-the-mouth psychotic. Her tiny body was an absolute ruin. In comparison, Destiny was smothered and raped after death, which is kind of not all that unusual for pedophile behaviour. I am not seeing the same kind of brutality and ferocity present in poor little Hser's murder. To me, they seem absolutely different apart from what are most likely coincidental parallels regarding location. And face it, a lot of people have basements. These children probably aren't the only murder victims to spend time in a basement in that region.

    Also, given that Gregerson did not mind raping a child's dead body, I am not surprised he kept her in a plastic tub that long, down there. I suspect he visited the body quite often. To put it nicely.
    Everything I have posted at this website, past or present, represents my opinion or my understanding of events based on facts that are publicly available.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Here are some comments regarding the last few posts.

    1) Rights, Miranda etc are an important issue generally but there are so many more serious problems with the confession. As to my use of the word entertaining I meant that is all the lawyer misconduct in that case is to me. It is almost funny how clumsy they are but really it has little to do with the actual crime.

    2) The interview was not permitted to be used in court, by request of the defense. Please keep this in mind when you watch the interview whole. There is so much evidence of improper collusion between the prosecution and defense. It looks like the prosrcution saw the problems with the confession but knew it would not look good to see the news 'prosecution asks to suppress confession' so they got Peterson, the defense attorney, to do it.

    3) Peterson was also the attorney for Gregerson, who apparently confessed to killing Destiny Norton. Gregerson offered some very dubious confessions and seemed afraid to talk about the case later.

    4) Regarding the link mentioning Hser's body near a bloody plastic bag. I hadn't seen that. Destiny Norton's body was supposedly also placed in a plastic bag, supposedly by Gregerson.

    5) Regarding rape. Watching the confession if a person gives the benefit oif every doubt to the police then still it is not really credible that Met raped the child. He calls her a little sister and seems a little disgusted by the fbi agent pushing that, even though he is willing to say other things he is asked to say and even says something like "you can say I did whatever you want, it's fine, I'll play along". In other words its the normal response when you are interviewed by a dangerous person with a badge and/or gun. First rule, answer every question with yes. Second rule, if that pisses the interrogator off then change your answer to no.

    6) The police report has very odd information about dna samples including chain of command issues and some elements do not appear consistent with the trial.

    7) One scenario is that he killed her 'accidentally' then one or more roommates abused the body for ethnic hate reasons.

    8) It is very odd that now an article saying Hser was possibly raped after death. That was a key element of the Destiny Norton murder. Please read the relevant sections in the book the fbi agent wrote Heaven's Hammer. Some people, at least people in the U.S. for sure, can read a substantial amount of the book for free online.

    9) Someone should give an opinion regarding the time of death of Hser. 29 hours after disappearing the medical tech says she is completely stiff. She has not yet begun to even leave rigor mortis. Is it possible she was kidnapped, then killed more than an hour after disappearing, then her body dropped there?

    10) One item ignored in the media and redacted from the police report involves a fifth person who was at the house when the police arrested the four roommates. All identifying information as well as the reason for rerleasing him, are blacked out of the police report. This is a male. There was also a female acquaintance of the roommates who is mentioned as passing through later but that is a separate person.

    11) As to the number of apartments. When the police did their search they used a large group of officers and searched for several hours door to door, presumably searching every space over 1 cubic foot. In each search the person in charge of record keeping lists each of the apartments. There are roughly 35. In the first search there were three that were not searched. In the next to last search there was only one apartment where no one answered the door, where the body was.

    12) Regarding the news item that the four roommates all returned about the same time that day, that is not accurate. The police report details interviews with some of them. One of the roommates, Myint something returned early that day, around 4 o'clock. The others returned about 5. Because the police had endured a lot oif criticism in the Destiny Norton case and were starting to get criticism in this case it looks like they just put all their chips on Met. There is no indfication of any further investigation of the roommates in the police report. Once Met confessed they were all released and taken home.

    13) Even taking into account pressure from the media, the investigation has too many flaws. It looks to me at least like someone in the fbi was steering both investigations improperly. There have been a lot of instances of pedophile rings in government circles in the U.S., particularly in law enforcement, and without exception each investigation is eventually dropped or ignored despite evidence that is quite substantial. Utah is utterly run by the Mormon Church and Mormons are not known for that kind of issue but it seems something still that should be considered.

    14) Also regarding the Destiny Norton case, please look for some forensic information on that case. I have found nothing. The first confession, in which he claims to have abused the body after death, has so many problems. Notice that he says that a minute after killing the child he received a call regarding his own child. This is consistent with a fiction created by him voluntarily to reduce the stress caused by another fiction that was induced. In other words if he had done it then it is just odd that he would receive such a call. But if he had not done it but was pressured to say he did then the additional detail is a useful defense mechanism, a psychological retreat in his imagination. One of many small issues in his confession, aside from the huge problems.
    Last edited by FleaSpirit; 11-15-2014 at 02:10 PM.

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