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  1. #31
    I was trying to remember what mdietz47 said about cream color and repainting. Do you remember RichardLewis?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplifymylife2014 View Post
    I was trying to remember what mdietz47 said about cream color and repainting. Do you remember RichardLewis?
    He posted on my TMD page about this...he said something to the effect of the car had been repainted and was originally blue.
    When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.

    Mark Twain

  3. #33
    Let's not forget that LE has also mentioned a second car they have been looking for, a early '70's large, white, 4-door, possibly Chrysler, possibly a New Yorker. That was a huge car in those years, about 19 feet long and the trunk was big enough to hide half a dozen bodies in! I wonder who owned such a car. It seems to me if it belonged to a member of the Welch family there would be a lot of old photos of it and everyone would remember which family member owned such an ostentatious vehicle! Certainly if that was the family vehicle used to transport the girls' bodies to Taylor's Mountain, the folks up there in those parts would remember such a flamboyant car!

  4. #34
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    This may be an "out there" possibility, but unless LE checks, you never know. Like the artist's sketch, it could have been right there all the time.

    I read the book Ghost Burglar (co-authored by one of the detectives on both the Bernard Welch case and the Lyon Case), the true story of Bernard C. Welch, Jr., primarily a thief and rapist con-man who: 1) used many fake identities to avoid being caught; 2) purchased magnificent homes in Great Falls, VA, and Duluth, MN, under the assumed name of Norm Hamilton; 3) fatally wounded a Washington D.C. surgeon who returned unexpectedly and surprised Welch/Hamilton in the process of burglary; 4) traveled extensively in the eastern and midwest US to dispose of stolen items; 5) had a 1970's blue wood-sided Ford Station Wagon stored in the garage of his Great Falls, VA, home when he was arrested; and, 6) had tried to give that station wagon to his girl-friend's father in Duluth, MN, shortly before he was caught in 1980. He is now deceased. From all indications, that station wagon was confiscated by LE; and if it was, the VIN should be contained in the paperwork from that case. The VIN should be able to identify any owners in the life of that vehicle as well as the disposition of that vehicle after Bernard Welch's arrest. Additionally, since the vehicle was registered in Great Falls, Va, it would have had a VA Inspection Sticker as noted by the 1975 witness in the Lyon case, and Great Falls, VA, is relatively close to the I-66 area where the sighting was made. While Bernard Welch was known to have resided and committed crimes in the central part of VA, there is no indication that Bernard Welch Jr. is related to, or had any contact with, the Welch family from Hyattsville, MD or anyone thought to be connected to the Lyon case. Bernard Welch led a very extravagant life funded by his thefts and knowledge of antiques, coins, guns, etc.

    If the vehicle found in Bernard Welch's garage is the vehicle being sought and had been painted tan and suffered as much blood damage as has been reported from Welch family witnesses, Bernard Welch could have easily afforded an eccentric complete refitting (simply to store and "hide" the vehicle being sought until it could be disposed of possibly on a trip to Duluth, MN.) Bernard Welch was known to be a hunting enthusiast, and such blood damage could have easily played into an explanation of hauling game if anyone had questions.

    Are these actions of restoring-and-hiding verified facts? NO! They are only possibilities with absolutely no verification that Bernard Welch had any contact with anyone connected to the Lyon Sisters. But, if the vehicle was impounded by the LE, there should be a record which SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE CHECKED AND VERIFIED just to be sure--even if it only serves to rule out the possibility that it could be true! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

  5. #35
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    I still think that car may be in one of those junkyards you see on the mountain in google earth views. But the prior post also seems to be a good lead to follow.

  6. #36
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    If Patricia Welch, who is on the docket for April 26, decides to tell the truth about all the details here, she should be able to tell the court exactly what she and her husband did with their station wagon after they decided not to drive it anymore. Since the case is now about proving or disproving the guilt of family members, that is the only station wagon that matters, here.

  7. #37
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    Schipperke Quote: "If the vehicle found in Bernard Welch's garage is the vehicle being sought. . ."

    Siriunsun Quote: "If Patricia Welch, who is on the docket for April 26, decides to tell the truth about all the details here, she should be able to tell the court exactly what she and her husband did with their station wagon after they decided not to drive it anymore. Since the case is now about proving or disproving the guilt of family members, that is the only station wagon that matters, here." (underline emphasis added)



    Hello? What other station wagon do you think we are talking about?
    Last edited by Schipperke; 04-06-2016 at 05:15 PM. Reason: modification

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schipperke View Post
    Schipperke Quote: "If the vehicle found in Bernard Welch's garage is the vehicle being sought. . ."

    Siriunsun Quote: "If Patricia Welch, who is on the docket for April 26, decides to tell the truth about all the details here, she should be able to tell the court exactly what she and her husband did with their station wagon after they decided not to drive it anymore. Since the case is now about proving or disproving the guilt of family members, that is the only station wagon that matters, here." (underline emphasis added)



    Hello? What other station wagon do you think we are talking about?
    It's hard to tell. Years ago, someone thought he saw the girls in a station wagon in Virginia, with VIRGINIA tags. That would obviously not have been Richard Welch's station wagon, as his station wagon had Maryland tags. Above is a comment from you, Shipperke, casually discussing a station wagon belonging to someone named "Bernard Welch", who, at this time, is UNCONNECTED to this case. The station wagon previously owned by Dick and Pat Welch is currently the only station wagon that needs to be searched for evidence.

    I don't think the court in Bedford will be inclined to worry much about "Bernard Welch's" station wagon, unless he bought it from Dick.

  9. #39
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    Well, if LE takes the time to check the files, we might one day know whether or not this is the same station wagon. The court does not do investigations; LE does--and this one should be on-going until the end IMO.

    I disagree that this was "casual" information unless one is completely satisfied that they have all the answers they need to get the result-they-desire from a trial or they believe that the search for information should cease BEFORE the verdict is in. Getting full and truthful information from a hesitant witness, sometimes depends on knowing what questions to ask as well as sometimes asking questions when you already know the answer.

    To my knowledge, LE is still seeking the public's assistance in locating this vehicle. The answer of whether or not it is the same station wagon should already be in the hands of LE. It should be just a matter of checking old records to rule it out or in--and maybe open another possible lead. It is very similar to making a decision on whether or not to make a witness-sketch-produced-in-response to LE requests for public assistance and then follow any leads received. (Now, where was it that happened?) If records of the VIN from the confiscation show it is not the same vehicle--one possibility closed with minimal investment. Nothing ventured; nothing gained. Why would anyone want to leave the "stone unturned" when the investment is so minimal?

    Of course, everyone knows that as long as the gag order is in place, no information related to any investigation on this case is going to be released to the public whether they make the effort or not. The name, timing, proximity locations, and other circumstances mentioned in my post certainly seem enough substantive reason to give this vehicle a "minimal" time investment, if only to rule it out! But, again, it will be totally at the discretion of LE. I only raised the issue here for "CASUAL" discussion by the readers who have expressed an interest in possible connections to the case. If it piques anyone else's curiosity, fine.

    EVERYONE is free to form his/her own opinion, and I am not going to defend mine any further than this.

  10. #40
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    There IS one person who is free to testify truthfully about where the station wagon went when the family turned in the tags, and that is Patricia Welch. I'll bet the court will gratefully take any truthful information she can give, regardless of any gag order, and I would also bet that she has that information.


  11. #41
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    Probably a safe bet. Now, if she will only share what she knows. Has it been determined that the tags were ever turned in or in whose name they were registered?

    People often drive vehicles that are not registered to them. Usually ownership is a safe assumption, but not always. I don't recall any verification that a station wagon was owned, only pictures that showed an association with such a vehicle and reports nearly 40 years later from family members that such a vehicle was involved in "something" in April 1975 and about its condition. And also nearly 40 years later, there is a call from LE for information about another very different kind of vehicle which may have had some involvement. ???????? and more ???????? until there are facts to support answers. Hopefully, there is supporting evidence in the file and MVA.

  12. #42
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    The vehicle was owned by RAW. As a former Maryland resident, myself, I can attest to the fact that Maryland is pickier than most states about turning in the tags when ownership of a vehicle transfers from one person to another. The world does not come to a screeching halt when tags are not turned in, but Maryland likes to account for things like that. If the vehicle was sold to someone in another state, the tags may not have ever made it back to Maryland. As for Patricia sharing what she knows, it would be a really smart thing for her to do. As she has probably already noticed, there are consequences for enabling criminals.

  13. #43
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    [QUOTE=Schipperke;12457227... I don't recall any verification that a station wagon was owned, only pictures that showed an association with such a vehicle and reports nearly 40 years later from family members that such a vehicle was involved in "something" in April 1975 and about its condition....QUOTE]


    There has been a lot of speculation regarding what kind of vehicle might have been used to abduct or transport the Lyon sisters, and a number of partial descriptions have been stated by various possible witnesses. At this time no positive identification of such a vehicle or of its owner has ever been made or released by police.

    In April 1975 Montgomery County Police stated that they were seeking a possible Ford Station Wagon of about 1968 vintage with a partially readable tag (possibly Maryland issue). That vehicle was described variously as tan or beige. It was described by an IBM employee who saw it for a short period of time in Manassas, VA on 7 April 1975. He stated that the man driving it appeared to resemble the sketch of the Tape Recorder Man and that there appeared to be a girl or girls bound in the back of it. The station wagon proceeded through a red light and got away.

    There was a photo placed in these threads some time ago which was allegedly of the Welch family standing near a blue Ford Pinto wagon. It should be noted that station wagons and hatchback cars were as numerous and popular in 1970's as minivans are today. To my knowledge there has never been any connection made between this Pinto Wagon and the Lyon Sisters.

    Whether or not the Tan Station Wagon was actually connected with the Lyon Sisters is also a subject for consideration.

  14. #44
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    "Are these actions of restoring-and-hiding verified facts? NO! They are only possibilities with absolutely no verification that Bernard Welch had any contact with anyone connected to the Lyon Sisters. But, if the vehicle was impounded by the LE, there should be a record which SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE CHECKED AND VERIFIED just to be sure--even if it only serves to rule out the possibility that it could be true! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!" Schipperke Post #34

    Thank you, Richard. I only posted this as a "possible connection" relating to a previous consideration in this case, from another VERY REAL BUT DIFFERENT case, which could have been overlooked in 1979. It appeared to be relatively easy for LE to rule in or out--and it was also found with a 1970's luxury car beside it, something LE was also looking for information on in 2014. The argumentative discussion on it surprised me since it appeared to be something so easily dealt with. My point was made--the rest was up to LE. End of discussion on it for me. BTW, good to see you back; I had watched your post long before I registered.

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