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  1. #1
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    Again, cyanide: UPMC worker poisoned, dies: homicide? accident? suicide?

    UPMC employee died of cyanide, how undetermined

    PITTSBURGH - A University of Pittsburgh Medical Center employee found dead at work earlier this month was killed by cyanide poisoning.

    But Allegheny County Medical Examiner Dr. Karl Williams tells The Associated Press that his office has yet to determine whether 34-year-old Nicole Kotchey's death was a suicide, some kind of accident, or homicide.

    Williams and UPMC spokeswoman Susan Manko say Pittsburgh police are still investigating the circumstance surrounding Kotchey's death at Magee Womens Hospital of UPMC on Nov. 12.

    Kotchey's death came a week after another former UPMC medical researcher, Dr. Robert Ferrante, was convicted of first-degree murder in the April 2013 cyanide poisoning death of his wife, Dr. Autumn Klein. Klein was a neurologist also employed by UPMC.
    cbsnews.com

    WS GUILTY PA -Mystery death of neurologist Autumn Marie Klein *Arrest*

  2. #2
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    Cyanide poisoning was on the news because of the murder trial. Could have given someone an idea. Either for her to kill herself (was she depressed?) or for someone to kill her. I don't think it could be an accident.
    Just my opinion

  3. #3
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    I can't imagine picking cyanide as a means of suicide!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaborDayRN View Post
    I can't imagine picking cyanide as a means of suicide!
    Wouldn't be the first time. It's supposed to be quick if a large does is taken. This guy killed himself in court.

    "PHOENIX -- A former Wall Street trader whose dramatic courtroom death was witnessed by millions on TV and the Internet probably committed suicide with a homemade cyanide pill."

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...elf/56153806/1
    Just my opinion

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Wouldn't be the first time. It's supposed to be quick if a large does is taken. This guy killed himself in court.

    "PHOENIX -- A former Wall Street trader whose dramatic courtroom death was witnessed by millions on TV and the Internet probably committed suicide with a homemade cyanide pill."

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...elf/56153806/1
    From your link.

    "evidence indicated that Marin purchased it over the Internet in 2011 from a California supplier."

    I have heard it's a horrible way to die. *painful
    It sure beats. (Insert brain f@rt here) it was a radiation drug, not Thalidomide...

    Thallium??
    ~ my opinion only

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Wouldn't be the first time. It's supposed to be quick if a large does is taken. This guy killed himself in court.

    "PHOENIX -- A former Wall Street trader whose dramatic courtroom death was witnessed by millions on TV and the Internet probably committed suicide with a homemade cyanide pill."

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...elf/56153806/1
    I agree...it wouldn't be the first time. In fact, many people have done it. I just meant that I personally, can't imagine it. Such a painful way to go.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaborDayRN View Post
    I agree...it wouldn't be the first time. In fact, many people have done it. I just meant that I personally, can't imagine it. Such a painful way to go.
    It's quick if a large dose is taken. People have done much more painful things to kill themselves.
    And we don't even know if this woman actually killed herself.
    Somebody else could have put it into her food or drink.
    Just my opinion

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    It's quick if a large dose is taken. People have done much more painful things to kill themselves.
    And we don't even know if this woman actually killed herself.
    Somebody else could have put it into her food or drink.
    That was actually my original point. I wondered if someone else poisoned her, because I can't imagine using cyanide to commit suicide. (MOO) There have also been incidences of long term, work place poisonings. It doesn't sound like that would be the case here.

  9. #9
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    Hello,

    I'm a reporter who was looking into this case as well as the case of Autumn Klein, who also worked at UPMC and died of cyanide poisoning last year. I spoke to the medical examiner for both those cases and I thought the WebSleuths community might be interested in taking a look:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...vania-hospital

  10. #10
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    This is going to be a boon in an appeals case for Ferrante convicted of killing Dr. Klein I would think. Don't you? Same hospital. Some nut possibly lurking there or working there?
    "The Greek word moira (μοῖρα) literally means a part or portion, and by extension one's portion in life or destiny.
    They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death."

    Wikipedia


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leomoon80 View Post
    This is going to be a boon in an appeals case for Ferrante convicted of killing Dr. Klein I would think. Don't you? Same hospital. Some nut possibly lurking there or working there?
    If investigators can find a source of cyanide at UPMC that both Drs. Klein and Kotchey had access to, it will definitely help Dr. Ferrante's defense during his appeal.

    However, considering that cyanide is quick-acting, the only explicable means of Dr. Klein dying of cyanide poisoning at home from exposure at work, IMO, is through her clothing. Had she maybe just changed clothes, pulling a garment over her head, shortly before dying? Did investigators test the clothing of both victims for traces of cyanide?

    Also, the headaches and fainting spells that Dr. Ferrante claimed his wife experienced for months preceding her death are consistent with cyanide poisoning. Might she have been exposed to small doses of cyanide over time until it built up to lethal levels?


    Quickly take off clothing that may have cyanide on it. Any clothing that has to be pulled over the head should be cut off the body instead of pulled over the head.

    If you are helping other people remove their clothing, try to avoid touching any contaminated areas, and remove the clothing as quickly as possible.
    <snipped>
    http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/cyanide/basics/facts.asp

    Ferrante and his defense attorneys contend they believe Klein may have been stricken by a cardiac arrhythmia or some kind of brain abnormality relating to headaches and fainting spells she had suffered in the previous months.
    <snipped>
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...s-killing-wife
    "Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk."
    - Henry David Thoreau

  12. #12
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    This is terrible, if this man has been wrongly accused and convicted. I hope they get to the bottom of it quickly., somehow, someway
    "The Greek word moira (μοῖρα) literally means a part or portion, and by extension one's portion in life or destiny.
    They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death."

    Wikipedia

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leomoon80 View Post
    This is terrible, if this man has been wrongly accused and convicted. I hope they get to the bottom of it quickly., somehow, someway
    Which man was wrongly convicted? If you mean Ferrante, evidence against him was very strong. He purchased cyanide a very short time before his wife ended up dead. Large amount of it was missing from the bottle. So I don't understand how these two cases are connected in any way shape or form, except the second case could be a copy cat.
    Just my opinion

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Anna View Post
    If investigators can find a source of cyanide at UPMC that both Drs. Klein and Kotchey had access to, it will definitely help Dr. Ferrante's defense during his appeal.

    However, considering that cyanide is quick-acting, the only explicable means of Dr. Klein dying of cyanide poisoning at home from exposure at work, IMO, is through her clothing. Had she maybe just changed clothes, pulling a garment over her head, shortly before dying? Did investigators test the clothing of both victims for traces of cyanide?

    Also, the headaches and fainting spells that Dr. Ferrante claimed his wife experienced for months preceding her death are consistent with cyanide poisoning. Might she have been exposed to small doses of cyanide over time until it built up to lethal levels?



    <snipped>
    http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/cyanide/basics/facts.asp


    <snipped>
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...s-killing-wife
    Did you follow the trial? He purchased cyanide a very short time prior to his wife dying. Large amount of it was missing from the bottle when the bottle was examined. He couldn't explain what happened to missing cyanide. His wife didn't work with cyanide. She was a medical doctor, not a researcher. Why would there be any cyanide on her clothing?
    Just my opinion

  15. #15
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    I said "if" I didn't say definitely WAS one way or another. Such things do occur you know.

    As to why she'd have cyanide on her clothing, that's a "fair" question. But she did work in that environment and came into contact with others in the same hospital I would surmise.

    I didn't follow every bit of the trial as you may have, but I did read he said he purchased it for research in the area of treating Alzheimers.
    "The Greek word moira (μοῖρα) literally means a part or portion, and by extension one's portion in life or destiny.
    They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death."

    Wikipedia

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