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  1. #1
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    OH -12 yo Tamir Rice w pellet gun, fatally shot by Cleveland LEO; Wrongful Death suit

    Shooting, Sat Nov 22, died Sun Nov 23

    "A Cleveland police officer shot 12-year-old Tamir Rice about two seconds after the officer and a partner pulled up in a car to investigate reports that someone was brandishing a gun at a park, surveillance video that police released Wednesday shows...."

    "The video shows Tamir walking along a sidewalk and eventually sitting on a picnic table bench under a gazebo Saturday afternoon, sometimes pointing what appears to be a handgun.Eventually, Tamir emerges from the bench and walks to the edge of the gazebo. A police car drives up to the gazebo, leaving the road and rolling over snowy grass to do so.
    One of the officers -- the one in the passenger seat -- told Tamir three times to "show your hands," Tomba told reporters.
    "(The officer's) door was open as they pulled up," Tomba said. "He yelled three times as they pulled up."
    The eight-minute surveillance video has no audio.
    Police have said Tamir reached into his waistband and pulled out the weapon. The video shows Loehmann, the passenger-side officer, exiting the car, and Tamir falls down, apparently shot...."

    ""Investigators determined that Tamir's weapon was an air gun, and that an orange tip that is meant to indicate that that it's not a real firearm had been removed, police said." bbm
    Includes a 4 min news clip-video w footage of shooting.
    And Links to 911 call at article below.
    ^Wed Nov 26, updated Nov 27 ^ http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/justice/cleveland-police-shooting/.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Tamir Rice family: 'Situation could have been avoided,' 'Tamir should still be here'"
    Thanks CPD for release of shooting vid
    Sets forth family's full stmt to public re release of vid
    Nov 26 ^ http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-n...-still-be-here
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Fred Loehmann, [LEO]Timothy Loehmann's father, told the Cleveland Plain Dealer this week that his son didn't know the boy's gun was fake or realize he was 12 years old.
    "I was right there and he went for the gun," he recalled his son saying, according to the newspaper. "I had no choice."
    Dec 5^ http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/justic...ann/index.html ^
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re LEO employmt review at other PD, 2 yrs prior
    "Nearly two years before he shot and killed a 12-year-old who had an air gun, Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann resigned from another police job after a supervisor described him as "distracted and weepy" and "emotionally immature." "
    Dec 5^ http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/justic...ann/index.html ^

    Sad, sad, sad. RIP Tamir.


    Mods - I could not find thread on this. If a duplicate, pls move post to existing thread.

  2. #2
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    Belatedly, the article re filing of lawsuit:
    "The family of Tamir Rice filed a civil lawsuit Friday against the city of Cleveland and the two police officers involved in the Nov. 22 incident that ended with Rice, 12, dead."
    Dec 5. ^http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...suit/19968419/ ^


    And pdf of 8 page Complaint filed in Fed. Ct. Dec 5, 2014, re
    -- Excessive Force
    -- Assault & Battery
    -- Wrongful Death

    Elizabeth Goodwwin, Administrator of boy's estate, names as defendants,
    the 2 LEOs TIMOTHY LOEHMANN & FRANK GARMBACK and City of Cleveland.

    ^http://www.scribd.com/doc/249289437/...-Death-Lawsuit ^

  3. #3
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    The video clearly puts the officer's account into question. At the speed the police cruzer pulled up and the speediness in which Tamir was shot (within 2 seconds), there was hardly enough time for one "put up your hands" command, let alone three. Sadly, we know how the story goes from here on - nowhere.

  4. #4
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    The eight minute surveillance video is terrifying though. If I was a bystander in the park I would have called police thinking it was a real gun. What in the world was this kid doing acting like that? Did he think he was a ****, flashing the gun? If you haven't watched all 8 minutes, you need to.

    WHY was a 12 year old alone in a park in Cleveland- no supervision - we have 80 active missing persons cases for just 2014 in Cuyahoga county, what parent lets their kid roam in this environment?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    The 911 call (which unfortunately I can't find a transcript of) makes it clear that he was scaring people:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i5MUTATmls

    On the other hand it's also clear that he was shot very quickly after the police arriving at the scene, and that the officer concerned had already been identified as a problem in a previous post.

    Individually these cases are very difficult to call, but the background against which they occur is of two important trends. Firstly an American gun culture and widespread proliferation of small arms that leads to a rate of homicide and gun homicide in particular that are wildly disproportionate to other developed countries: police on civilian, civilian on police and civilian on civilian. Secondly, the intersection of the above with race. I notice the epithet "****gish" applied to Tamir Rice. Now that might not be an entirely unfair epithet to apply to someone who was waving a realistic looking firearm around in public and scaring people, except that he lived in a country where a very macho gun culture is widely accepted and it is perfectly normal in many places for people to openly carry the real thing... as long as they're white, if they're black then they risk being shot by the police with little or no warning.

    The problem is that it is difficult to extend from that to saying this or that individual officer should have put themselves at more risk, even when its apparent, in general, that very different inferences are drawn from the same behaviours and different thresholds are applied when faced with someone behaving alarmingly depending on their ethnicity.

  6. #6
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    Even I know that pellet guns have an orange tip. A friend has one and they're very distinguishable, even at a considerable distance.

  7. #7
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    Anyhow, it's just incredibly sad that this young man is dead and the officer, who already had issues on file, lacked the necessary training to make the appropriate distinctions in this case. There is no need to diminish this young man and his life in order to validate this inept cop's poor decision.

    RTMO

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    Even I know that pellet guns have an orange tip. A friend has one and they're very distinguishable, even at a considerable distance.
    The orange tip had been removed.

    In addition the airsoft weapons often replicate real weapons precisely, so much so that the same accessories are marketed/sold for EITHER the airsoft model or the real firearm (accessories such as lasers etc...).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    Anyhow, it's just incredibly sad that this young man is dead and the officer, who already had issues on file, lacked the necessary training to make the appropriate distinctions in this case. There is no need to diminish this young man and his life in order to validate this inept cop's poor decision.

    RTMO
    Can you please explain what "appropriate distinctions" might apply when an individual approaches a vehicle and points a handgun at the occupants?

    If someone approaches my vehicle and points a GUN AT ME I will assume they plan to rob/SHOOT me. In this case the police were called because this individual was apparently threatening other people, and seeing as how they are police they have even MORE to worry about!

    Have you ever looked down the barrel of a gun? It is like looking into your own grave. When someone points a gun at you then you DO NOT analyze their face, you react to the immediate threat to your life!

  10. #10
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    Gun w'orange tip presents no or little danger to anyone????

    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    Even I know that pellet guns have an orange tip. A friend has one and they're very distinguishable, even at a considerable distance.
    bbm

    Respectfully, quote from above OP w link to article:
    ""Investigators determined that Tamir's weapon was an air gun, and
    that an orange tip that is meant to indicate that that it's not a real firearm
    had been removed, police said
    ." bbm

    ^Wed Nov 26, updated Nov 27 ^ http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/justice/cleveland-police-shooting/.

    How could anyone determine that it was air gun, without actually handling the gun? Can LE tell? IDK.

    The concept gun w orange tip presents no or little danger to anyone? Sorry, not true imo.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft Scroll down to USA section.

    Who knows about this particular gun?
    Does it pre-date fed. legislation re orange tips?
    What happened to orange tip?
    Did it have an orange tip and previous owner sanded off orange paint, taped over orange tip or painted over orange tip?
    Did current owner do this? Who did gun belong to?
    Rice?
    If Rice modified it, lends credibility to idea that he was genuinely trying to intimidate ppl, make them think he's armed & dangerous.

    2+ min vid shows him raising arm w gun in hand and pointing vid cam range, multiple times,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i5MUTATmlsand
    shows him pulling gun in & out of pocket, pointing it at multiple ppl passing him on sidewalk within 3-5-8(?) feet.

    Some MSM vids show only the LE vehicle pulling up to him and very quickly opening fire. Is it poss before pulling up to him,
    LEOs themselves observed Rice aiming gun at multiple ppl just several feet away?
    Who could pass Rice on sidewalk when he pulled & pointed gun and not be scared spitless?????

    One of the LEO's employment review at former force is another issue altogether.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoresorrow View Post
    Even I know that pellet guns have an orange tip. A friend has one and they're very distinguishable, even at a considerable distance.
    If gun has not been modified - say,by sanding off orange paint, by painting over orange tip, taping over orange tape.
    Per above links this gun had no orange tip.

  12. #12
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    Good lord! How did he manage to shoot the child in 2 seconds....horrible.

  13. #13
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    CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Cleveland police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice had issues with handling guns during his brief tenure with a suburban police department.

    A Nov. 29, 2012 letter contained in Tim Loehmann's personnel file from the Independence Police Department says that during firearms qualification training he was "distracted" and "weepy."

    "He could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal," according to the letter written by Deputy Chief Jim Polak of the Independence police.


    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...cer_who_s.html
    Justice for Caylee

    "We have a different stage. We have the same actress," Sheaffer said.

  14. #14
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    Thank you to all of the posters who supplied links pointing out that the pellet gun's tip had been removed. That certainly changes things because, I agree, it would be nearly impossible to distinguish it from a real gun, especially under these circumstances, when a life may hang in the balance.

    As for the question of whether I have ever looked down the barrel of a gun... No, the gun's barrel was actually placed against my right temple (1993 - DV relationship) and, still today, I have the deepest respect and gratitude for the training and professionalism of the LE officers who responded that night, and I am forever indebted to them for my life. Agreed, it is something you never forget.

  15. #15
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    This was a very unfortunate. It is a possibility TR thought the police knew it was not a real gun. Kids that age think because they know something everyone else knows it.
    When given the pellet gun rules should have been established- never remove the tip, it can be used only on personal property, it should never, ever be pointed at any living thing, it can only be used when an adult can supervise. TR's parents failed him if they did not establish rules.
    I do not fault LE. There are two things, when watching the video, I have questions about. Why did LE pull so close? And, when pulling up, if knew the person in the gazebo was who the call was about, why did the driving officer put his partner in such a vulnerable position? I am not Monday morning quarterbacking to criticize. If there is any way to improve the o of everyone going home safe then we need to look at them. jMO
    Clear your mind must be, if you are to discover the real villains behind this plot. Opinion only, my posts are.

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