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  1. #1
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    Jul 2005
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    Question bedwetting... new developement?

    Hi! I have done a lot of reading on this site, but have yet to post. Does anyone know if Jonbenet's bedwetting was a recent developement or had she wet the bed off and on since graduating from diapers. I hate to read too much into this particular fact until I know the answer to that, however it can be very telling.
    My little girl wore pullups until she was 8, her muscles just weren't developed enough to "hold it" at night, and she slept too deeply to wake up when she had to go. SO I know this happens to kids, and it's normal.
    However, if it was a recent developement... well I know of just a couple of things that can cause this. One is any major change in her life, moving, new baby in the family.... and the other is an onset of sexual abuse.
    I haven't been able to find this info anywhere. Does anyone know?

  2. #2
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    As I recall the previous babysitter said she nearly always wet the bed. Then (I think) there was a lull when she improved somewhat, then she regressed during the cancer time. At the time of the murder she was better but not 100% "dry." Burke also wet the bed for a long time and perhaps JAR (but I can't remember where I heard that)

  3. #3
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    Hmmm

    Welcome armywife210!

    Yes a tell tale sign IF it had just started recently. I do not recall reading any information about precise onset. Tipper where did you read about the babysitter, was she the one that quit just prior to LHP arriving. I vaguely remember reading about her, but cannot remember precise details about her 'service time' with the Ramseys.

    Tipper do you remember what years the baby sitter you tell about was with the Ramseys. I seem to remember her saying that she was vacumming sp? one day when John came home and that he yanked the electric plug out from the wall, do you remember that?

    I also wonder when the more numerous trips to see Dr. Boof began, datewise, how old would JonBenet have been then?

    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





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  4. #4
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    Jul 2005
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    all of those doctor visits...

    The whole thing with the doctor visits bother me too. I have two little girls, 10 and 5, and I am at times overprotective in the sense that I do bring them to the doctor a lot. Especially my little one because she has such a high pain tolerence that by the time she tells me that her ear hurts, her eardrum has usually burst. But never have they gone to the doctor that much.
    Also the vaginal exams.... what? My oldest had a yeast infection once but the doctor never did any kind of exam beyond visual. He didn't even touch her in that area because, as he told me, he doesn't believe in touching children in that area (unless absolutely necessary) so as not to confuse them as to when it's ok for someone to do that and when it's not. That way if someone ever does sexually assault them there will be no way for them to convince that child that it was ok. He told me that if it's just an infection there is no need to look any further. He did, however tell me that the one time he does find it necessary is when there is suspected sexual assault. This leads me to wonder if Patsy thought there might have been, therefor informing the doctor, having him check for signs, but asking him not to put it in her file because then they might investigate/take her out of the home. Perhaps Patsy convinced him that she would get to the bottom of it and stop it, and he agreed only under the agreement that he would continue to see her more often. Perhaps he was hoping that the little girl would confide in him, or he could find evidence of the hymen being broken.
    Just a thought.

  5. #5
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    Camper
    That was Linda Wilcox who said that about John turning the vaccum cleaner off whilst she was using it.
    Also, about Dr Beuf ( that may be spelt wrong) wasnt there some kind of discrepancy with him? I cant remember where I read it and exactly what happened though.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Cool Be Very Careful When Judging

    Quote Originally Posted by armywife210
    The whole thing with the doctor visits bother me too. I have two little girls, 10 and 5, and I am at times overprotective in the sense that I do bring them to the doctor a lot. Especially my little one because she has such a high pain tolerence that by the time she tells me that her ear hurts, her eardrum has usually burst. But never have they gone to the doctor that much.
    Also the vaginal exams.... what? My oldest had a yeast infection once but the doctor never did any kind of exam beyond visual. He didn't even touch her in that area because, as he told me, he doesn't believe in touching children in that area (unless absolutely necessary) so as not to confuse them as to when it's ok for someone to do that and when it's not. That way if someone ever does sexually assault them there will be no way for them to convince that child that it was ok. He told me that if it's just an infection there is no need to look any further. He did, however tell me that the one time he does find it necessary is when there is suspected sexual assault. This leads me to wonder if Patsy thought there might have been, therefor informing the doctor, having him check for signs, but asking him not to put it in her file because then they might investigate/take her out of the home. Perhaps Patsy convinced him that she would get to the bottom of it and stop it, and he agreed only under the agreement that he would continue to see her more often. Perhaps he was hoping that the little girl would confide in him, or he could find evidence of the hymen being broken.
    Just a thought.
    ..........and perhaps, JB was susceptible to yeast infections which would cause the inflamation that I read about earlier in this thread. I was plagued with yeast infections from the time I can remember (before school age) through my 30's at which time I learned they could be controlled by diet restrictions: namely reducing the intake of sugars and simple carbs. I was never sexually abused --- granted I never saw the doctor until I was in my late teens at which time it seemed like I was always being treated for the yeast infections - as a child, I never told my mother about the misery I endured and she being like most of us never examined my genitaliaand was not aware of my problem.

    Also, I have a daughter that started having problems with bladder and urinary tract infections when she was less than 2 years old because of an abnormally high urine ph level; we had to restrict her intake of orange juice, tomato products, etc. Also, the pediatrician prescriped soda pills to further lower it. This problem was diagnosed because she started having periods of bedwetting at night as well as accidents during the day. She was hospitalized for testing and was examined for sexual abuse (as required by law I was told). She had not been sexually abused.

    As a result of my first hand knowledge with these situations in my own family, I have a VERY difficult time when anyone speculates that a child is being sexually abused because of inflamation of genitalia, bladder and urinary tract infections, etc.

    Please remember there are other causes for these conditions aside from sexual abuse.

    I have no opinion as to who is responsible for JB's murder, but I do think we often smear the reputation of those closest to the victim because we are so quick to make judgements WITHOUT all of the facts.

    It is my opinion that we should be very careful before we speculate and accuse victims' loved ones.



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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    Welcome armywife210!

    Yes a tell tale sign IF it had just started recently. I do not recall reading any information about precise onset. Tipper where did you read about the babysitter, was she the one that quit just prior to LHP arriving. I vaguely remember reading about her, but cannot remember precise details about her 'service time' with the Ramseys.

    Tipper do you remember what years the baby sitter you tell about was with the Ramseys. I seem to remember her saying that she was vacumming sp? one day when John came home and that he yanked the electric plug out from the wall, do you remember that?

    I also wonder when the more numerous trips to see Dr. Boof began, datewise, how old would JonBenet have been then?

    .
    Suzanne Savage was the babysitter/nanny forJonBenet starting in 1991. She worked fulltime for them after the cancer diagnosis in 1993. She hired Linda Wilcox to do housework ($8.33/hour!) and I believe Wilcox worked til sometime in 1994? when LHP started. I read a 1998 interview and there's no love lost for the Ramseys. She was the vacuum lady. Wonder what she was saying about them in 1996?

    Other doctors have gone over the list of visits JonBenet had with Beuf and do not feel they are unusual in cause or number.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2005
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    [QUOTE=Peabody]..........and perhaps, JB was susceptible to yeast infections which would cause the inflamation that I read about earlier in this thread. I was plagued with yeast infections from the time I can remember (before school age) through my 30's at which time I learned they could be controlled by diet restrictions: namely reducing the intake of sugars and simple carbs. I was never sexually abused --- granted I never saw the doctor until I was in my late teens at which time it seemed like I was always being treated for the yeast infections - as a child, I never told my mother about the misery I endured and she being like most of us never examined my genitaliaand was not aware of my problem.

    Also, I have a daughter that started having problems with bladder and urinary tract infections when she was less than 2 years old because of an abnormally high urine ph level; we had to restrict her intake of orange juice, tomato products, etc. Also, the pediatrician prescriped soda pills to further lower it. This problem was diagnosed because she started having periods of bedwetting at night as well as accidents during the day. She was hospitalized for testing and was examined for sexual abuse (as required by law I was told). She had not been sexually abused.

    As a result of my first hand knowledge with these situations in my own family, I have a VERY difficult time when anyone speculates that a child is being sexually abused because of inflamation of genitalia, bladder and urinary tract infections, etc.

    Please remember there are other causes for these conditions aside from sexual abuse.

    I have no opinion as to who is responsible for JB's murder, but I do think we often smear the reputation of those closest to the victim because we are so quick to make judgements WITHOUT all of the facts.

    It is my opinion that we should be very careful before we speculate and accuse victims' loved ones.


    I certainly was not meaning that because of these problems that she was being sexually abused. What I was saying is that perhaps, just perhaps, Patsy had some reason to suspect that she was being sexually abused and that is why she was having the exams. Just a wild thought... But I would never suggest that because of yeast infections/urinary tract infections that points to sexual abuse.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2005
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    The only problem with jbr,s on going infections, is that she was found to have been molested.That fact seems to make JonBenets previous infections a little more suspicious

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dingo
    The only problem with jbr,s on going infections, is that she was found to have been molested.That fact seems to make JonBenets previous infections a little more suspicious
    Sooooo true.

    Anyhoo, I remember reading where JonBenet had stopped wetting the bed until about a month before her death...she began wetting again.

    I'll try and look up the source.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98


  11. #11
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    Does anyone know if it was true that Dr. beuf left a practice in Arvada under 'disturbing circumstances' and does anyone know what the 'disturbing circumstances' were.

  12. #12
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    Jun 2005
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    {This leads me to wonder if Patsy thought there might have been, therefor informing the doctor, having him check for signs, but asking him not to put it in her file because then they might investigate/take her out of the home. Perhaps Patsy convinced him that she would get to the bottom of it and stop it, and he agreed only under the agreement that he would continue to see her more often. Perhaps he was hoping that the little girl would confide in him, or he could find evidence of the hymen being broken.}

    JonBenet was taken to her pediatrician almost 30 times during the last three years of her life and had five vaginal exams. Maybe Patsy was being a panicky mother and took JonBenet to the doctors to check to see if she was being sexually abused or
    maybe Patsy knew that JonBenet was getting abused and the physical exams were to cover up the abuse........
    Aunt Pam: JonBenet why don't you put your shoes on? JonBenet: Because I want to feel the rhythm of the earth under my feet.

  13. #13
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    Jul 2005
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    Yea, I just keep thinking that Patsy had a feeling that someone was sexually abusing her. I think that Jonbenet knew this person well, and because of that and whatever this person might have told her, she wouldn't tell Patsy flat out... so Patsy was bringing her in to be checked all of the time. And maybe many other times were more of counselling sessions trying to get the truth out of her. Who knows?
    Is it true that there was a dictionary opened to the word incest or something like that on the counter?

  14. #14
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    Jun 2004
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    <<As a result of my first hand knowledge with these situations in my own family, I have a VERY difficult time when anyone speculates that a child is being sexually abused because of inflamation of genitalia, bladder and urinary tract infections, etc.

    Please remember there are other causes for these conditions aside from sexual abuse.>>

    Except we're speculating about this child because she's DEAD.

  15. #15
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingo
    The only problem with jbr,s on going infections, is that she was found to have been molested.That fact seems to make JonBenets previous infections a little more suspicious
    When and who JBR found to have been molested besides with a paint brush on the night of her murder?

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