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  1. #1
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    Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

    An AirAsia flight from Indonesia to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic controllers, according to local media.
    The plane had asked for an unusual route before it lost contact.
    An Indonesian transport official confirmed the plane was an Airbus 320-200 and that 162 passengers and crew were on board.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1398597/co...t-to-singapore

    ETA:
    A statement on AirAsia's Facebook page said: "AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic control at 0724hrs this morning.

    "At the present time we unfortunately have no further information regarding the status of the passengers and crew members on board, but we will keep all parties informed as more information becomes available.

    "The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC. At this time, search and rescue operations are in progress and AirAsia is cooperating fully and assisting the rescue service."

    The airline has set up an emergency call centre for family or friends of those who may have been on board the aircraft. The number is: +622129850801.

  2. #2
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    Here's another link http://www.cnbc.com/id/102297363
    “Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things.” -- Terry Pratchett

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    This is the normal flight route apparently (grey line) .. according to Google.




    (Sorry Schmae .. just saw your post .. here is the screenshot anyway)
    Things are not what they appear to be. Nor are they otherwise.
    - Surangama Sutra

  5. #5
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    Sky News ‏@SkyNews 2m2 minutes ago
    Missing Jet: 'Plane Door' Seen In Search - AFP http://news.sky.com/story/1399546/mi...-in-search-afp

  6. #6
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    7News Yahoo!7 ‏@Y7News 17s17 seconds ago
    #BREAKING Reports objects resembling emergency slide, plane door seen in #AirAsia #QZ850 search. More to come.

  7. #7
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    Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

    Please continue here....

    Thread #1
    Last edited by Harmony2; 12-31-2014 at 12:12 PM. Reason: added link to thread #1

  8. #8
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    From the last thread

    Seven bodies have been recovered from the sea, some fully clothed, which could indicate the Airbus A320-200 was intact when it hit the water. That would support a theory that it suffered an aerodynamic stall.

    The fact that one person put on a life jacket would appear to indicate those on board had at least some time before the aircraft hit the water, or after it hit the water and before it sank.

    However, the pilots did not issue a distress signal.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-missing-plane

  9. #9
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    Bringing over this link of the new incident that happened in Pakistan on Dec 30 where a large 737 plane skidded off the side of runway. Luckily nobody got hurt. I suspect the previous repairs may have been faulty because a similar incident happened not long ago with this plane and they supposedly fixed it. There was mention of a bird strike hitting the landing gear too although I dont think that caused this since it should have been able to handle the bird strike. The previous repairs are more suspect to me and especially because of the way they describe it.

    "After landing on runway 36L the airplane went to the right off the side of the runway. It came to rest in the grass with a collapsed left hand main gear. "

    "The airplane, AP-BJN, had been involved in a prior accident on April 22, 2012 when the left hand undercarriage strut penetrated through the upper wing upon landing at Karachi. The aircraft was repaired and flew again on May 16, 2014."

    http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=20141230-0

  10. #10
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    There has been very confusing reporting. Was someone wearing a life jacket or not?? The report below, would indicate that there is no confirmation that anyone was wearing a life jacket.

    JAKARTA - None of the bodies found so far in the hunt for the doomed Indonesia AirAsia flight QZ8501 were wearing life jackets, an official of Indonesia's search and rescue agency said on Wednesday, contradicting earlier reports that one of the bodies had a life jacket on. “There was a victim, a man, and a life jacket. They were found apart. He was not wearing a life jacket,” Basarnas operations deputy, Major-General Tatang Zaenuddin, was quoted as saying by a report on Detik.com news website. “So far, none of the bodies had life jackets on.” Earlier, the official was cited as saying a body recovered from the crashed plane was wearing a life jacket, raising questions about how the disaster unfolded. "This morning, we recovered a total of four bodies and one of them was wearing a life jacket," Tatang Zaenudin said according to Reuters. He declined to speculate on what the find might mean.
    http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asi...-body-was-wear


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    There has been very confusing reporting. Was someone wearing a life jacket or not?? The report below, would indicate that there is no confirmation that anyone was wearing a life jacket.

    JAKARTA - None of the bodies found so far in the hunt for the doomed Indonesia AirAsia flight QZ8501 were wearing life jackets, an official of Indonesia's search and rescue agency said on Wednesday, contradicting earlier reports that one of the bodies had a life jacket on. “There was a victim, a man, and a life jacket. They were found apart. He was not wearing a life jacket,” Basarnas operations deputy, Major-General Tatang Zaenuddin, was quoted as saying by a report on Detik.com news website. “So far, none of the bodies had life jackets on.” Earlier, the official was cited as saying a body recovered from the crashed plane was wearing a life jacket, raising questions about how the disaster unfolded. "This morning, we recovered a total of four bodies and one of them was wearing a life jacket," Tatang Zaenudin said according to Reuters. He declined to speculate on what the find might mean.
    http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asi...-body-was-wear
    There has been a lot of conflicting reports. Since there are a lot of different boats and different parties helping with the recovery I suspect some of the reports are coming from different sources.

    Some reports will probably turn out to be inaccurate and some may take awhile to be validated and become "official". I just hope the "officials" dont try to hide any accurate information.

  12. #12
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    The most recent report from CNN last night had 7 people recovered. It seemed pretty accurate to me because they were referring to a new person being found that added to the previous known 6. So for me personally, I am sticking with 7 found so far.

  13. #13
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    CARIIS is offline Professor Emeritus-Institute of Typing/Spelling (Duke University)
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    Evacuate

    more on this [QUOTE=CARIIS;11348937]
    The slides are actually the life rafts stored inside each door. They detach and are used as a life raft, which if one really thinks about it is a pretty silly proposition. Evacuate everyone off a plane, have em hang out, thread water in roraring waves while everyone else jumps, then detach from aircraft itself which by this point is starting to sink. Its all cert stuff, and basically useless.

    When is the last time in three decades any of us remeber images, of passengers , from a commericial airliner, bopping about in the ocean , after a jetliner goes down in a life raft?

    Its a mind play !

    The cert mandate for evacuation is that every model aircraft most prove that a fully loaded version of their aircraft must be "able" for everyone to get out within 90 seconds,

    Here is what this sharade looks like:

    This is the biggest airliner in the free world Airbus A380 cert test

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIaovi1JWyY

    a more detailed look

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gqWeJGwV_U

    There was so much money riding on this one , the even skipped fake smoke - in most of the others series certs they had smoke. Money rules all. The rule (90 seconds) has been in place since the Wright Brothers were in utero(!) $$$$$$$
    Last edited by CARIIS; 12-31-2014 at 09:33 AM.

  14. #14
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    This link below just shows where the emergency exists are located in relation to the seating charts.

    http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...Airbus_320.php

  15. #15
    CARIIS's Avatar
    CARIIS is offline Professor Emeritus-Institute of Typing/Spelling (Duke University)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatfield View Post
    There has been a lot of conflicting reports. Since there are a lot of different boats and different parties helping with the recovery I suspect some of the reports are coming from different sources.

    Some reports will probably turn out to be inaccurate and some may take awhile to be validated and become "official". I just hope the "officials" dont try to hide any accurate information.


    I just hope the "officials" dont try to hide any accurate information;

    Because aviation has gotten so safe the last decade, there are not many accidents to make natl headlines. Prior to MAL370 straight news reports especially in the first month after a major air carrier accident were pretty straightforward public/media wise. At this point there was nothing being "hidden".
    In commercial stuff the sleaziness came in typically 18-24 months afterward, not in the media spotlight, when NTSB "probable cause" was cemented, and published in the final report.

    Then it get gets sleazy. Pilot error very common, (and true in the context of how much we have learned as it relates to human factors in aviation accidents). 20 years ago this one would have probably been an inclement weather probable cause.

    But since MA LA 370 and its mysterious ways , now the basic feeling is there is a lot of "lying" form the onset. None of what happened in the first three weeks of MAL , all the overt lying (all behavior has meaning) had never happened before).ANd cause of that they media focus is not not trusting. When there is nothing neararious or deviant going on, there is no agenda, to not find out, and have whats found reported. They are tradegies.

    Prior to all the mal370 shannigans the headlines this week would have been like:
    Air Asia flight crashes into the ocean
    262 feared dead in AIr Asia crash

    none of this missing, vanished,"stuff" would ever be in or a part of the story. ANd becasue this is a aviation accident, a plane crash,what has happened for eternity, after some time, wreckage was located- becasue the plane crashed and we now proceed with whats and why

    with todays search technolgy, airplanes that have crashed are located. The media is confusing two very importaint things here. IN the past there was not the technology to look for and find downed planes in remote places. None of those planes vanished, they were just unable to be found.That is a very important distiction that gets lost whenver an aviation event has happened since 370.

    A this week illisturates, today our technology does affort us the capabiltiy to locate crashed planes in tough areas. Only planes that are reported to crash, that have not, vanish. We certainly have the capablity - heck Google earth to locate any plane crash on land anywhere, and as this week clearly shows we can now do so under water-pretty strgihtforward!

    Aviation accident investigation got more sophisticated, it became clear that rarely was there one thing that cause a major commercial accident, but a chain link of events.

    IN this context, if any one of the links were removed, and all the other links remained an accident would not have occurred.

    easiest way to share this angle is to just do some links in chain!

    -they will start with what was the airlines basic unspoken rules about monsoon flying
    -they will talk to a lot of crews to ascertain the degree of subtle pressure flight crews felt by management to proceed
    - they will look for weather related incidents to see how this pressure works in real life on the line
    -they will explore ways Air Asia communicates its weather info and its warnings
    -they will explore each indie flight crew propensity to be "driven", take chances, to complete the segment on time
    -they will be looking for colleague statements like he was by the book, or one time when i flew with him i def did not think we should have departed – that kind of stuff
    -they will ask friends and family how pressure their loved one felt to complete – did he feel their might be consequences if the he canceled the flight
    -were there covert pressures to keep fuel reserves as tight as poss on each flight $
    -if they had internal weather folks what were the policies procedures, they will get the manuals and read them
    - what was the airlines weather (upper management in that department) notions about delaying or canceling
    -what percentage of flights did that dept actual cancel or hold or reroute prior to departure
    - was their friction between line captains and the department
    -did flight crews feel respected by the dept
    -from all departments and employees what is the overall feel as it relates to getting flights out period
    that is one link in the chain


    another link would be the aircraft itself
    -same deal, what is the maintenance dept staff notions about management pushing them to delay repairs if it meant a cancel
    -did not maintenance folks feel supported when mechanic did not release an aircraft for flight
    -did line mechanics appeared pressured by maintenance management to meet numbers
    -were shortcuts encouraged? OK? firmly prohibited
    -did line crews feel as if there shifts were staffed correctly or did they feel understaffed chronically

    another link in the chain
    did the particular aircraft, historically, show a particular issue that kept popping up
    -how was it addressed
    -did it cease the problem or did it keep reoccurring
    -what was managements response to more expensive maintenance recommendations
    -what calibration testing standards do they use to assure reliability in radar altimeters etc
    -do staff performing those calibrations feel supported if they verbalize a concern or rec a replacement
    another link

    record keeping link
    - did the maintenance debt records "feel" as if it was an effort to look good, or to actually track each aircraft medical history accurately and timely.
    - did staff feel like their sign offs were being reviewed or rubber stamped by management


    another link
    each crew members life
    -in this case the funeral will be huge
    -were they close
    -what was pilots behavior like after funeral -
    -did many of his colleagues know about the funeral
    -how many hours he sleep
    -did he smoke
    -on mess-
    -what was his marriage like-
    -his relation to his children
    -was he respected by peers
    -did colleagues like flying whit him or prefer someone else
    -what climate did he create in the cockpit
    -did other feel it is OK to bring up a concern or would they tend to keep quiet
    -had the two pilots on this segment flown tighter before, how often, what was their relationship like
    -how others who have flown with each of them rate their skills, are they rule benders, or strictly by the book
    -

    another link
    -time of departure
    -body clock issues
    -had the flight crew been on the 3 in the morning schedule for some time
    -how did they feel about it
    -did they complain about it
    -on the cockpit voice recorder was there i am tired, i wish i slept last night stuff
    -excessive yawning heard on tape
    -asking for three cups of coffee before push back
    -time went to bed each night the previous week/time of awakening
    -either wear glasses -anyone notice if another crew member appeared to be having a hard time reading material
    -complaint of a headache sore foot, fight with child that morning
    -car wouldn’t start on way in


    another link
    -hassle with boarding
    -fuel load issue
    -baggage-
    -unruly passenger
    -conflict with gate agent-
    -concern in maintenance log for that aircraft
    -argument over that item
    -affair with cabin crew member on the flight
    -trouble closing the cabin door

    another link
    communication with control tower
    -any difficulty understanding each other
    -any off hand comments in cockpit regarding the controller handling the flight
    -overt tension between them
    -reverse it for the air traffic control and the flight crew


    another link
    -how much conversation about weather in cockpit
    -difference of opinion between crew members about how to handle weather before takeoff
    -final plan established between the two regarding what would occur as it relates to the weather once airborne


    another link
    once in the air
    -did he dialog about the weather ahead indicate increasing concern
    -fear
    -discussion about turning back and canceling-
    -any discussion between the two regarding reports from planes ahead of them
    -how many other diversion requests had they overheard
    -what reports were they hearing from pilots ahead of them about conditions ahead
    -dialog between the two crew members regarding the effects of the weather on the aircraft along the way
    -what sounds were being heard, turbulence, wind shelf wipers
    -trouble maintain heading and speeds before getting close
    -cabin crew questions about when to start service – delay or proceed?


    Another link
    -dialog right before requesting diversion between pilots
    -response after climb refused
    -discussion about the left turn appearing as if issue mitigated
    -response when seeing the cloud for the first time after the divert (panic/feeling it was more of a hassle or a serious situation
    -cockpit microphone noises at this time
    -hear maintain control of aircraft becoming more difficult


    etc etc
    Last edited by CARIIS; 12-31-2014 at 09:52 AM.

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