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  1. #1
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    UT - James Dudley Barker, 42, Salt Lake City, killed by LE, 7 Jan 2015

    A man who allegedly was offering to shovel walks for money before hitting a Salt Lake City police officer with the shovel was shot and killed by the officer Thursday in Salt Lake City's Avenues area, according to police.

    The incident happened just before 4 p.m. near 2nd Avenue and I Street.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3303...icle-related-1


    Police: Man shot, killed by cop had attacked officer with a shovel

    ----------------------

    Police officials said they believe the officer involved was wearing a body camera at the time
    the shooting occurred, but they said they could not confirm that detail Thursday night.

    http://fox13now.com/2015/01/08/man-s...-neighborhood/

  2. #2
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    The man shouldn't have attacked the policeman with a shovel but I'm not sure that the policeman needed deadly force to stop the man. It's hard to believe that the officer couldn't have disarmed the man without killing him. More detail needs to be told to know if the shooting was justified.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan View Post
    The man shouldn't have attacked the policeman with a shovel but I'm not sure that the policeman needed deadly force to stop the man. It's hard to believe that the officer couldn't have disarmed the man without killing him. More detail needs to be told to know if the shooting was justified.
    if, as the story states, the man swung the shovel at the cop and there are witnesses then it is legally justified.

    the story does say he actually connected and hit the officer so it would seem at this time that its most likely a reasonable use of force.

    one thing that stands out - in the live shots from the scene there is barely any snow anywhere, a few yards seem to have the tiniest bit but all the roads, driveways, sidewalks seem bare...

  4. #4
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    Yes it's been very warm today and much of the snow has melted.
    That is why someone called the police... offering to shovel a sidewalk without snow is suspicious.
    However a snow shovel isn't that heavy. It's not like a regular shovel.
    You'd have a hard time doing serious damage with one.
    I do wonder why a taser wasn't used... maybe the body camera and witnesses will give us that information?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by liljim View Post
    if, as the story states, the man swung the shovel at the cop and there are witnesses then it is legally justified.

    the story does say he actually connected and hit the officer so it would seem at this time that its most likely a reasonable use of force.

    one thing that stands out - in the live shots from the scene there is barely any snow anywhere, a few yards seem to have the tiniest bit but all the roads, driveways, sidewalks seem bare...
    It occured to me that shoveling snow was a ruse to be in the neighborhood (lurking) as a thief or sexual predator might and perhaps he recognised the officer from prior run-ins, or he thought the officer recognised him. Why else would he hit the officer?

  6. #6
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    Thank God.

  7. #7
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    I would think if he had an extensive criminal record that would be mentioned.
    It's generally the first thing they include when they ID the suspect.

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33032628&nid...s_cid=queue-20

    Salt Lake Police Sgt. Robin Heiden said James Dudley Barker, 42, of Salt Lake City, was going door-to-door offering to shovel walkways for residents, and one resident called police. When the officer approached Barker, he immediately hit him with a shovel, Heiden said.

    "Immediately there was an altercation between the two. The officer was attacked with the shovel and returned fire and killed (Barker)," Heiden said.

    The confrontation played out "within seconds," she said.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    ....However a snow shovel isn't that heavy. It's not like a regular shovel.
    You'd have a hard time doing serious damage with one.
    I do wonder why a taser wasn't used... maybe the body camera and witnesses will give us that information?
    bbm1
    True, attacker swinging shovel one time, say at shins, may not cause permanent serious damage, but shovel blow ---
    ---to LEO's head could result unconsciousness, even if just for 5-10 sec.
    ---to head or elsewhere could drop LEO to concrete, knock him unconscious.
    ---anywhere could distract LEO w pain reaction for several seconds.
    Any of the above could allow attacker to take LEO's gun, a serious risk, imo, even if injury does not cause LEO death or life-long disability.
    And that is premised on attacker landing only one blow. Multiple blows w 10 lbs could cause death or life-long disability, imo.*

    bbm2
    I also hope body camera footage and witnesses will be enlightening.

    Sad all the way around. JM2cts.


    * Per Amazon, snow shovels (other than emergency, folding type) may be as light as 5 lbs, but many are 10-12 lbs, even w poly/plastic blade.

  9. #9
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    It appears he was hit in the arm according to the witnesses, for what it's worth.

  10. #10
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    If someone starts swinging a shovel at an officer trying to assault him imo, the cop has every right to shoot. That can become a fatal attack very quickly. Why should an officer take that chance? Sure, MAYBE he could have disarmed the perp with a tazer or with his brute strength, but then again, MAYBE NOT. Why should he put his own life and well being on the line, over a perp who attacks unprovoked. Sorry for the guy who was killed, but if u attack a cop with a shovel, be prepared to be shot. I have no problem with that. JMO
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn


  11. #11
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    My concern with the shooting is the area.
    I know you guys are not from here but I used to live right down the street.
    If I still lived there I would be very upset that this cop used a gun instead of a taser.
    I would be concerned that one of my family members could have been hit.
    Especially if I lived in the house that they were standing in front.

    My concern is the other people that may have been hit by a bullet.
    In this case I think that he should have used the taser first, in order to avoid hitting other people.
    I'm not saying he shouldn't have shot, just saying maybe this area would have been better to start with a taser.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    It appears he was hit in the arm according to the witnesses, for what it's worth.
    Thanks for noting that, MsF.
    Getting hit in the arm w shovel could still distract LEO, imo, and allow attacker to take LEO's gun away.
    From 2nd link, "...he hit an officer several times with a shovel, police said.' bbm
    "Police later stated that the officer involved is recovering from multiple fractured bones
    ."
    In vid at 2nd link, reporter said (paraphrasing) the woman who called 911 said LE told her
    altercation began on the front porch and moved to the yard.
    ^
    Ok, triple hearsay^. But looks like, maybe, fighting while on concrete stairs? Ouch.
    Again, hope vid & witnesses can clarify further.
    Hoping that this shooting did not endanger anyone else in neighborhood.

    From MsF's later post:
    "If I still lived there I would be very upset that this cop used a gun instead of a taser."
    Personally, if I lived there I would be very upset that, apparently unprovoked, this dude hit LEO w a shovel."
    Sad to see violence in area where we live, used to live, or anywhere.

    JM2cts.

  13. #13
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    So he went from "possible minor injuries" to "several fractured bones."
    WTF? I am officially confused.

  14. #14
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    Very confusing reports so far - imo, better to wait for the situation to calm down and see what reports are at that time. Jmo.

    Why did the cop need to get close enough to be hit with a shovel or any other weapon? Don't get the training or thinking there. Fwiw, also don't get why this guy needed to swing a shovel at the cop, if in fact he did. Multiple fractures sustained by the cop will be substantiated or discounted down the road.

    The attack in Freeport (Maine?) was handled perfectly imo - waiting to see if all Chief's of Police will follow his example. Or not. My interest is will this violence against LE spill over to Canada - we have the same problems of 'LE self indulgence' fwiw. Not working here either. Jmo.

  15. #15
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    The body camera recorded the initial confrontation between the officer and James Dudley Barker, 42, but it stopped recording after it was damaged during the confrontation, said Salt Lake police detective Dennis McGowan.

    -------------------------

    The officer was hit by the shovel "several" times, police said, and suffered fractured bones in an arm and foot.

    --------------------------

    “I don’t know everything, but I do know James," said Ron Lee, a neighbor who lives a few doors away.

    Lee said he and Barker had lunch at the Avenues Bistro on Third Avenue earlier in the week.

    “He looked as good as I’ve ever seen him," he said.

    Lee said Barker lived in his home on Third Avenue and I Street for 10 years and was outside regularly.
    He described him as a “kind” and “normal guy" who had shown “absolutely no aggressiveness" during the years he had known him.

    Lee recalled a time when two trees were cut down in Barker’s yard, and Barker was hesitant for the stump to be removed because he wanted to create something from it.

    “Instead of just … cutting it down, (he said), 'Can’t we make something beautiful?'" Lee said, describing his friend’s attitude.

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33042457&nid...s_cid=toppick3

    I think we may be looking at mental illness here.
    Mostly treated... but occasionally going untreated and that's when he has interactions with police.

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