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  1. #1
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    NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

    21-year-old Maura Murray disappeared on Monday, February 9, 2004 following a minor 1-car accident on Route 112 near Woodsville, New Hampshire.




    Previous threads:
    #1
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    #5
    #6
    #7
    #8
    #9
    #10
    #11

    Other links:

    Maura Murray Missing - http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/

    NamUs - https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/54/0/

    Charley Project - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murray_maura.html
    Last edited by KateB; 11-18-2015 at 07:02 PM. Reason: add previous threads.
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  2. #2
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    The dog:

    I have always been under the impression that the dog was simply unable to track Maura because too much time had passed, or because the gloves were too new for the dog to pick up her scent.

    But the dog was able to tell us which direction she went in; doesn’t this mean it picked up her scent from the gloves?

    The dog only traced her to the corner of Wild Ammonoosuc and Bradley Hill Rd.If the dog simply lost her scent because too much time had passed, why was it able to pick up her scent at all? It only would have taken Maura a minute to get to Bradley Hill Rd. Why wouldn't the smell from the crash site to Bradley Hill Rd. have dispersed the same amount as a theoretical scent trail that continues beyond this point?

    We know she should be on the road for a significant distance, they didn't find footprints in the woods. I think it is very convenient that this scent trail ends at an intersection, and not at some other point on the road. Cars would naturally stop at this juncture, and nobody would take any notice. There is a stop sign, right?

    Does anybody have an opinion about the dog?

  3. #3
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    NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

    I agree. The dog either picked up her scent or he didn't. Dogs don't pick up scents and then lose them because their reference item was too new. Wasn't it Fred's contention that the gloves were too new? And also that the dog lost the scent 100 yards east because a local dirtbag took her off the road. Well, which is it Fred? Can't have it both ways!


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    Last edited by TAK; 01-09-2015 at 06:54 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAK View Post
    I agree. The dog either picked up her scent or he didn't. Dogs don't pick up scents and then lose them because their reference scent was too new. Wasn't it Fred's contention that the gloves were too new? And also that the dog lost the scent 100 yards east because a local dirtbag took her off the road. Well, which is it Fred? Can't have it both ways!

    Bradley Hill Rd. also connects to Rt. 116 (south of Rt. 112) - James Renner's post on the last thread speculates the tandem driver drove back from Rt. 16 to pick her up. I didn't see a Rt. 16 on the map, so he may have meant 116. I think it's totally possible she ran that way and was picked up, or hid from the cops until she got a ride.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    You are right. It was Fred's contention that the gloves were too new, and it was his contention that the dirtbag took her off the road. And we can be fairly certain that she did, in fact, go in the direction that the dog indicated, because Fred was upset that police searched for her westbound, towards town, but allegedly did not search 112 eastbound from the crash site. If they didn't find footprints and officers told us they were very thorough in searching the woods around the crash, this means that she was probably walking along the road. According to Fred, the officers searched westbound, but they didn't find her. Presumably, the dog was probably right about the direction.

    Bradley Hill Rd. does connect to 116. This road may have been a better choice for walking than Wild Ammonoosuc, which was dark and winding. Actually, I believe that the intersection of 112 and 116 is where Rick Forcier allegedly saw her.

    At least one person also reported, to my recollection, seeing a red truck parked on Bradley Hill Rd. where a man may have been in the woods.

    Personally, I am not yet convinced of the tandem driver. But if Renner is right, we have a video of Kathleen and her ex-husband standing in front of a red truck, just a few days after Maura went missing.

    Here is the video:

    http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...om=en-us_video

    ETA Here is the link to Renner's blog post discussing the red truck. If you scroll through the comments, some attribute the red truck story to a local witness R.O. I don't know how much weight to give any of these comments.

    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/03/red-truck.html
    Last edited by carpanthers; 01-09-2015 at 07:21 PM.

  5. #5
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    Answering James Renner: The bold were some of my examples of indicators that Maura MAY have been suicidal.

    Maura packed up very specific sentimental items to take with her to the mountains while leaving most of her valuables in her dorm.
    JR: Not true. She took everything of value.

    SCOOPS: That is not true James. Did she take her laptop? Did she take her clothes? Did she take her personal notes? Did she take her final work paychecks? My statement is no more false than what you have just said.

    Maura left in late afternoon (intentionally arriving to the white mountains at dark)

    JR: Yes. She had some loose ends in UMass and was looking to party that night with other people in the White Mountains. She was looking for multiple room condos. The other person found a better one and booked it.

    SCOOPS: you state your answer as fact and in no way shape or form do you know that to be fact.
    Maura leaving late in the afternoon is a fact. Maura intentionally arriving to the white mountains at dark is an interpretation of a fact. But saying for certain that she was looking for multiple room condos and that a tandem partner found a better one is pure hypothetical.

    Maura had a book with her (that detailed survival attempts in the white mountains and the creative lengths and fight people put up trying to find a way to survive, but eventually led to death anyways).

    JR: Yep. A book about the White Mountains was in her car, as she was driving into the White Mountains.

    SCOOPS: Very condescending answer James. Nice. If you don’t think that the book was anything more than a white mountains guide, then you are choosing to completely ignore the many mentions (by family members whether they meant to or not) that the particular book held special meaning to Maura.

    Maura avoided contact with everyone and had her phone turned off for every second of her trip but one short (two minute span) where she turned her phone on and checked for messages).

    JR: Having driven that area, I think the most likely explanation for her phone being turned off was due to lack of reception. Roaming drains a battery fast. I think she turned it back on to check up with another person she was meeting up there.

    SCOOPS: James this one is just simple common sense. It is known right down to the second what exact time Maura checked her cell phone for messages. In order for Maura to have checked for messages, she would’ve had to have her phone turned on.
    Evidence suggests Maura didn’t have her phone turned on at any other point in her trip. Why? Because the milli-second Maura would’ve had her phone on, she would’ve left a trace behind. If Maura could’ve at all been traced that afternoon, the public would know about that as the investigators of the case did want the publics assistance in trying to locate Maura.

    Maura emptied her bank account

    JR: Yes, indeed. She wasn't coming back to UMass.

    SCOOPS: I don’t know what to say. I list a simple fact (Maura emptied her bank account) and this is the kind of thing I get criticized for on the board. You reply that Maura wasn’t coming back to UMASS. That is your OPINION, yet no one challenges you on that.

    Maura purchased alcohol and by all known accounts was going to be consuming alcohol alone

    JR: The amount of alcohol and the type suggests it was for more than one person.

    SCOOPS: Again that is your opinion. And that is fine. But I disagree with you. Does that make me a bad person or wrong for certain and you right? I say Maura brought drinks to have for one night in a hotel and drinks to have on the hiking trails the next morning. Is it fact what I say. No, but it is also not false just because you don’t agree with it.

    Maura had just finished a disturbing weekend that included some puzzling choices (with most of the weekend in direct witness from her father).

    JR: I don't believe anything about Fred and Kate's official version of that weekend. It's possible the party on Sat. night was essentially a "good bye" party.

    SCOOPS: That is your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. I disagree. I think Maura did have a meltdown at work. I think Maura did have two car accidents in the span of 48 hours and I think Maura was deeply troubled about something. Those may not be 100 percent facts, but they are based/ interpretations on facts that are known.

    Her father urgently called 911 (not to get an update) but to pass along information about Maura when he found out she went missing in the white mountains. This is known fact because the investigating officer said the first words out of fred's mouth (during his 911 call) was that Maura had come to the white mountains to do personal harm to herself.

    JR: Fred knew why she was up there and was attempting to muddy the waters in order to paint her as suicidal if they found her before he did.

    SCOOPS: I don’t even really understand your answer, but even so, that is not factual by any stretch. That is completely your opinion. Her father did call 911 (fact) her father did have something urgent to tell police investigators (Fact) The lead investigator did state the first words out of fred’s mouth was that Maura came to the white mountains to do personal harm to herself (fact). That is what I posted, your’s response is straight opinion. No?

    the rag in the tailpipe, no one knows why she had it there, but the lead investigator brought up suicide attempt as a possibility without giving any other scenarios

    JR: Fred gave an explanation for this. He told her to put it there. He knew his fingerprints were on it and it had to be explained.

    SCOOPS: Once again you are injecting 100 percent opinion here. Where I have just stated facts to support my theory. No one knows why she had it in there (fact). The lead investigator did hint it could’ve been a possible suicide attempt (fact). He did not give any other possibility for that rag (fact).

    A stranded Maura refused help when help was really needed

    JR: She didn't need help. The other driver was turning around on Rt 16 and coming back for her.

    SCOOPS: That is straight opinion. And that is fine, good for you that you have your own opinion, but you (at least it seems to me) are presenting this as fact.

    Instead of grabbing her sentimental values and values in general, Maura is believed to have disappeared with just her backpack and some bottles of alcohol (vodka).

    JR: She thought she could get back to the car at some point. But then it became a really big deal.

    SCOOPS: Opinion and mind-reading. Everything I have stated (while not 100 percent fact) is what is believed to be fact by the investigators.

    Maura had turned in her lab coat the very day she went missing (even though she had just began clinicals)


    JR: Yep. She wasn't coming back to UMass.

    SCOOPS: I agree with you.

    While many thoughts were likely racing through fred's mind as he drove to the white mountains, he began with the phone call to 911 talking about Maura being suicidal and still some 24-48 hours later, he was still talking about Maura being suicidal. In other words, this was not a fleeting thought of his that he just had for one second like it has been described.

    JR: Fred needed to be in control of the spin.

    SCOOPS: that is your opinion which is fine. I happen to believe that at some point (days into the search for Maura) fred began to utilize the media to control spin. In either instance, we are both sharing our opinion on the matter.

  6. #6
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    "Fred knew why she was up there and was attempting to muddy the waters in order to paint her as suicidal if they found her before he did."

    I didn't read this carefully enough the first time that Renner posted it. This is a great point. If Fred thought that Maura was, in fact, hiding from the consequences of this crash, then trying to convince the police that she was suicidal would be a great way to excuse the fact that Maura left the scene of an accident if she were, in fact, found.

  7. #7
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    I think Fred is perhaps one of those fathers who would publicly defend his child and do everything in his power to protect, but who is perhaps a much more critical father privately.

    As you all concluded, Fred could h ave told the cops that Maura was suicidal as a way to get them to both look for her and to not press the DUI thing once they found her. It does make sense.

  8. #8
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    Add/Drop:

    The UMass academic calendar for the 2004 school year reflects that the end of interchange registration, or Add/Drop day, was February 10th, 2004, the day after Maura went missing. Add/Drop day would have been the last day for Maura to drop classes or move out of her dorm room without facing substantial fees and a grade of W (withdrawn).

    Does anyone have an opinion about the packed dorm room and the scrubs that were returned to a classmate as they may or may not relate to Add/Drop?

    Here is the 2003-2004 academic calendar:

    https://www.fivecolleges.edu/academi...calendar_03-04

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpanthers View Post
    Add/Drop:

    The UMass academic calendar for the 2004 school year reflects that the end of interchange registration, or Add/Drop day, was February 10th, 2004, the day after Maura went missing. Add/Drop day would have been the last day for Maura to drop classes or move out of her dorm room without facing substantial fees and a grade of W (withdrawn).

    Does anyone have an opinion about the packed dorm room and the scrubs that were returned to a classmate as they may or may not relate to Add/Drop?

    Here is the 2003-2004 academic calendar:

    https://www.fivecolleges.edu/academi...calendar_03-04

    She left in good academic standing, according to the dean of nursing.

    There has been made no mention to my knowledge of Maura officially withdrawing from her classes.

    She did return a borrowed lab coat or gave her own away to a friend on the same day she went missing.

  10. #10
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    In 2004 I was in college at a major state school, and you could add/drop online very easily by then. Could Maura have been planning on logging on the next day to drop out of school?

    My own thoughts are that the add/drop deadline may not have meant much to her, and that indeed she was not all that thrilled about going back to school after winter break. Was her father up there to talk her out of dropping out of school?


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireweed View Post
    In 2004 I was in college at a major state school, and you could add/drop online very easily by then. Could Maura have been planning on logging on the next day to drop out of school?

    My own thoughts are that the add/drop deadline may not have meant much to her, and that indeed she was not all that thrilled about going back to school after winter break. Was her father up there to talk her out of dropping out of school?
    She could've been planning too. But then why email the professors to let them know she would be out for a week?

    The same day Maura went missing is the first day her school's newspaper ran a story on the vasi hit and run.

    What does that mean? Who knows.

    The Amherst town newspaper had already ran a story on the hit and run the morning after it had happened.

  12. #12
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    Here is the thing I do not understand about your theory scoops. If Maura was going to kill herself Monday or Tuesday, then what was the point of emailing her professors? Why not just drive up there and do it? I do not know if you went to college, but I did. Indeed I have a B.A., a master's and a JD. I have studied at five different universities in three states and two countries. This is not to brag but rather to make my point abundantly clear: at all the universities and in all the places I studied I have taken two days off at a time and never let a single person at the school know. There was no search, my parents were never called, there was not a single smidgen of concern given to my absence, etc. It was not a big deal. When you are at a university, you are an adult. The "consequences" of taking off for a couple of days are at worst a drop in your grade.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireweed View Post
    Here is the thing I do not understand about your theory scoops. If Maura was going to kill herself Monday or Tuesday, then what was the point of emailing her professors? Why not just drive up there and do it? I do not know if you went to college, but I did. Indeed I have a B.A., a master's and a JD. I have studied at five different universities in three states and two countries. This is not to brag but rather to make my point abundantly clear: at all the universities and in all the places I studied I have taken two days off at a time and never let a single person at the school know. There was no search, my parents were never called, there was not a single smidgen of concern given to my absence, etc. It was not a big deal. When you are at a university, you are an adult. The "consequences" of taking off for a couple of days are at worst a drop in your grade.
    Maura was in clincials though right?

    I have heard from nursing students in the same program at UMASS that for one it is very tough to land a spot in the clinical rotation and several students are literally forced to put their education on standby for a semester if their name didn't get selected.

    Maura, a transfer student who hadn't even gone through all of the same stuff that nursing students go through before they get a chance at clincials (as I understand it), got a very golden opportunity when she was selected for clinicals.

    Now I don't know her clinicals schedule. I know she had clinicals about an hour away from UMASS, but that was normal as the university had contracted out to several hospitals within a 200 mile range to send off students for clinicals.

    But if you are absent from clincials, wouldn't that be a bit bigger of a deal then if you just skipped out on a lecture that featured maybe 100 students or more, in which no one would even really know or care that you were missing.

    By the way, Maura didn't email her professors, like it has been reported. She emailed the nursing director and the nursing program itself who then passed along the email.

    Maura also included her place of employment in the email. If she had been scheduled to work at the art gallery that Monday night for instance, and she had been a no-show, I would put my money down on the notion that someone would've been looking for her right away. Maura worked with a good friend there and if Maura was just a no-show, I would think at minimal, that friend would make an attempt to locate Maura and maybe even escalate the situation and contact Maura's family.


    As to why Maura felt the need to email anyone ... IMO, it was to buy time for herself and do whatever she was doing and not have to be worried about people trying to track her down.


    Just for the record: I have a B.A. In Journalism and had been a Professional Journalist for 14 years.

  14. #14
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    Maura already had to leave a school with high ethical standards, not because of grades, but because of behavioral problems.

    Nursing programs also have high ethical standards. Isn't it possible that Maura violated these standards when charged with credit card fraud, and that she could potentially face getting kicked out of her nursing program because of this? If she knew she were going to get kicked out of her nursing program this semester, wouldn't she want to withdraw from classes and move out of her dorm room before she became responsible for thousands of dollars in fees?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpanthers View Post
    Maura already had to leave a school with high ethical standards, not because of grades, but because of behavioral problems.

    Nursing programs also have high ethical standards. Isn't it possible that Maura violated these standards when charged with credit card fraud, and that she could potentially face getting kicked out of her nursing program because of this? If she knew she were going to get kicked out of her nursing program this semester, wouldn't she want to withdraw from classes and move out of her dorm room before she became responsible for thousands of dollars in fees?
    The answer is no. (and that is not me being mean or spiteful)

    And it is no, because the nursing director herself said Maura left with her academic status still in good standing.

    Plus, why would Maura email the nursing director to excuse her absence if she was dropping out?

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