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  1. #1
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    Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

    'An American tourist's battered body has been found in a suitcase at an exclusive hotel on Indonesia's resort island of Bali and her daughter and daughter's boyfriend have been arrested over the killing, police said.

    The body of Sheila von Wiese Mack was found on Tuesday stuffed into a suitcase in the boot of a taxi in front of the five-star St Regis hotel in the upscale Nusa Dua resort area of Bali.'

    The 62 - year-old victim had been staying in the exclusive hotel with her daughter, Heather, 19, and her daughter's boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer, 21. She was found half naked and investigators say she had put up such a fierce struggle, she had broken her left hand.

    The US Embassy in Jakarta says it is aware of the arrests. There doesn't seem to be any information about where in the US the three are from.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-1...n-bali/5668728

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  2. #2
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    Bali - Sheila von Wiese Macks body found in suitcase. Daughter, boyfriend charged #4

    Please continue here....

  3. #3
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    I have generally been in favor of the death penalty if for no other reason it deters the criminal in question. This one has me rethinking that, probably because the jurisdiction is not in the US. I think it is because Indonesia has never executed an American and I wonder if both HM and TS are convicted if the penalty would be applied evenly. I want to find out how many females have been executed in Indonesia in the past. I can't help but think it would be a terrible injustice if TS was executed and for some reason HM was not.

  4. #4
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    Wow, they got to court at last!

    I can't use the reply function on posts in the previous thread. But I wanted to address the question of what penalty Heather faces in her charge of assisting in premeditated murder, asked in the previous thread.

    I posted in early December that accomplices can potentially face the same penalty as the person who commits the crime. This is covered in Article 57 of the criminal procedure code:

    Article 57

    1. The maximum of the basic punishments imposed upon the crime in complicity shall be mitigated by one third.

    2. If it concerns a crime on which the capital punishment or a crime on which life imprisonment is imposed, a maximum of fifteen years shall be imposed.

    3. The additional punishment for complicity shall be the same as for the crime itself.

    4. In determining the punishment only those acts shall be considered which the accomplice has deliberately facilitated or furthered, together with their consequences.

    [BBM]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracehatter View Post
    OMG!!!! The New Year has been keeping me busy...can't wait to read this later after work! I knew there would be something uncovered somewhere that would show at the least HM had planned this. So that is why TS wanted to see his old friend...he wanted someone to tell him not to go.
    BBM

    I think this is a very insightful observation by gracehatter and I agree with it completely. Tommy will now spend the rest of his life knowing that he could have taken a different path, knowing that at one moment he had some (even if quite small) doubts. He made a terrible choice and must live (and just possibly) die with it.

    [I copied gracehatter's comment #1047 from the previous thread, so if it links back to her comment number 3 in this thread, that's my doing.]

  6. #6
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    The new president of Indonesia, Joko Widodo, who took office in October, appears very committed to the death penalty. His deputy attorney general for general crimes, Basuni Masyarif, announced at the end of November that five prisoners on death row would be executed in December and that the government will execute at least 10 prisoners annually, in order to reduce the backlog of people facing death. (Talk about government efficiency taken to ghoulish extremes.)

    The five who were scheduled to be executed before year-end did not include the two members of the Bali 9 who are under sentence of death. It has been reported that the five inmates in question (who the government said should have already had punishment imposed) are imprisoned in Banten, Riau and Jakarta; two of those are Nigerians.

    [Iíve seen no reports that these so-called scheduled executions took place in December.]

    Estimates place the number of people on death row in Indonesia at approximately 130 and about ten new death sentences are handed down each year. Many prisoners wait a decade or more before being executed.

    Murder, drugs, and terrorism are the major crimes subject to the death penalty in Indonesia, although there are a few other crimes subject to the ultimate tariff, such as sedition.

    There were four executions in 2013 (three for murder and one for drugs), with the most recent executions before that taking place in 2008, when there were ten (five for murder, three for terrorism, two for drugs). Of the 11 other executions taking place between 2000 and 2007, eight were for murder and three for drugs.

    So of the 25 people executed this century in Indonesia, 16 (or almost two-thirds) were convicted murderers. Assuming that the three terrorists who were executed killed people as part of their crime(s), then more than three-fourths of those put to death in Indonesia since the year 2000 were proven killers.

    That doesnít placate me, as Iím opposed to the death penalty. But because the drug cases get so much publicity, itís easy to form the misimpression that most people who are executed in Indonesia are those convicted of narcotics trafficking.

    However, if there are 64 people on death row for drugs (this figure was posted recently in the last thread) and 130 people in total on death row in Indonesia, then currently close to half of those waiting to be put to death are drug dealers.

    http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...haust-appeals/
    and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...t_in_Indonesia

  7. #7
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    President Widodo really is taking Indonesia in a new direction. As I showed in my earlier post, most of the people executed in Indonesia over the past several years were proven killers. And there has not been an execution in that country in over a year. The Indonesian government has also recently worked to save some of its citizens from the death penalty in other countries.

    But Widodo wants to execute drug traffickers. And he wants to do it in a big way.

    Indonesia has just announced that six people on death row for drug charges, including one woman, are to be executed this Sunday. (This is probably to make up for the five they wanted to execute in December, mentioned in my previous post.) There will be another batch of executions, again of drug traffickers, to follow that.

    Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan are very worried. My heart goes out to them, and the others.

    It is a very sad day.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-ni...-1227186440288

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Tabby View Post
    President Widodo really is taking Indonesia in a new direction. As I showed in my earlier post, most of the people executed in Indonesia over the past several years were proven killers. And there has not been an execution in that country in over a year. The Indonesian government has also recently worked to save some of its citizens from the death penalty in other countries.

    But Widodo wants to execute drug traffickers. And he wants to do it in a big way.

    Indonesia has just announced that six people on death row for drug charges, including one woman, are to be executed this Sunday. (This is probably to make up for the five they wanted to execute in December, mentioned in my previous post.) There will be another batch of executions, again of drug traffickers, to follow that.

    Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan are very worried. My heart goes out to them, and the others.

    It is a very sad day.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-ni...-1227186440288
    If these executions are to take place IMO would be great if these two mother murders could hear the gun fire. Jmo

    ciao

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracehatter View Post
    I have generally been in favor of the death penalty if for no other reason it deters the criminal in question. This one has me rethinking that, probably because the jurisdiction is not in the US. I think it is because Indonesia has never executed an American and I wonder if both HM and TS are convicted if the penalty would be applied evenly. I want to find out how many females have been executed in Indonesia in the past. I can't help but think it would be a terrible injustice if TS was executed and for some reason HM was not.

    I feel the same way. For whatever reason, I feel that TS is the lesser evil in this duo and was coerced into this by HM for the usual incredibly stupid hormonal reasons of youth. Even though he was the one who ultimately murdered Sheila, if he is sentenced to die for this crime, she should be too. Although I'd like to see him shun HM in a very public way during these court appearances and refuse to be manipulated by her any more to show he has some remorse over what happened and how stupid he was.

    MOO

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Tabby View Post
    President Widodo really is taking Indonesia in a new direction. As I showed in my earlier post, most of the people executed in Indonesia over the past several years were proven killers. And there has not been an execution in that country in over a year. The Indonesian government has also recently worked to save some of its citizens from the death penalty in other countries.

    But Widodo wants to execute drug traffickers. And he wants to do it in a big way.

    Indonesia has just announced that six people on death row for drug charges, including one woman, are to be executed this Sunday. (This is probably to make up for the five they wanted to execute in December, mentioned in my previous post.) There will be another batch of executions, again of drug traffickers, to follow that.

    Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan are very worried. My heart goes out to them, and the others.

    It is a very sad day.

    http://www.news.com.au/world/bali-ni...-1227186440288
    I disagree with executing drug traffickers and it has obviously not deterred many people (probably because they haven't actually done it in years ) I think the two Bali 9 men will be a huge example to others if and when it happens. And it will be a sad day. Those two are completely rehabilitated IMO.

    MOO


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    I disagree with executing drug traffickers and it has obviously not deterred many people (probably because they haven't actually done it in years ) I think the two Bali 9 men will be a huge example to others if and when it happens. And it will be a sad day. Those two are completely rehabilitated IMO.

    MOO
    Let me make it perfectly clear (since I realize I wasn't in my first post) I am in no way in favor of execution of drug traffickers and should have said my opinion of the death penalty is restricted to the US as it is the only system I have studied in depth.
    Last edited by gracehatter; 01-15-2015 at 01:45 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamille View Post
    I feel the same way. For whatever reason, I feel that TS is the lesser evil in this duo and was coerced into this by HM for the usual incredibly stupid hormonal reasons of youth. Even though he was the one who ultimately murdered Sheila, if he is sentenced to die for this crime, she should be too. Although I'd like to see him shun HM in a very public way during these court appearances and refuse to be manipulated by her any more to show he has some remorse over what happened and how stupid he was.

    MOO
    I still think it is possible HM murdered Sheila and he is falling for it. I wonder if he will completely turn over and tell what really happened now that they have text messages, etc.

    HM is the violent one.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracehatter View Post
    Let me make it perfectly clear (since I realize I wasn't in my first post) I am in no way in favor of execution of drug traffickers and should have said my opinion of the death penalty is restricted to the US as it is the only system I have studied in depth.
    Oh I wasn't indicating that I though YOU were in favour of executing drug traffickers in my post. I was just responding with my personal opinion to the news article that OrangeTabby posted.

    Quite frankly, I was kind of taken aback by the information that I read recently on just how these two were coercing children as young as 15 to swallow condoms full of drugs to smuggle. It is in stark contrast to the way they present today. But as a Canadian, I'm not very pro death penalty except in the most heinous cases involving murder. These two didn't kill anyone intentionally, even if the argument is made that drugs kill. It is still ultimately the choice of those who die from drugs.

    I do believe in stiff prison sentences though. I'd be okay if those two did have to spend their entire natural lives in Kerobokan. They've made a life for themselves in there but it's much different than what they were aiming for. That is their punishment I suppose. Now would they have rehabilitated so well without the fear of the death penalty hanging over their heads? Hard to say.

    MOO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiandmighty View Post
    I still think it is possible HM murdered Sheila and he is falling for it. I wonder if he will completely turn over and tell what really happened now that they have text messages, etc.

    HM is the violent one.
    If SWM had actually been smothered with a pillow, I might think that way too. But the weapon used was the fruit bowl that did not make it onto the scene until TS showed up so I'm going with him being the person who actually bludgeoned Sheila to death. I don't think HM was in the washroom though. I think she was right there egging him on.

    MOO

  15. #15
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    If I understand correctly, defense makes a presentation next week. I wonder if Elkin/Flavia will be making an appearance or if they're going to monitor (and bill) remotely.

    I wonder if TS's mother's appearance really shook him up and reminded him of all that he threw away. Apparently Mom's rules were too strict for him to live at home and at 21, he still didn't seem to be able to hold a job and keep a roof over his head - but I bet when he actually laid eyes on his mother, it was a stark reminder of how good he really had it compared to where he is now.

    I think he's been told his goose is cooked anyway, so why not take a complete fall for HM? I think he's too terrified to do anything else. At this point, deep down he must realize HM is all about HM, but he has absolutely no one else that can really do anything for him. If it's difficult for Flavia to keep HM supplied in Kerobokan, how much harder will it be for TS to try to find outside support? If you look at the photos from their last two encounters, he appears very fragile, ready to snap, and she seems to be trying to encourage him to hold it together - for her sake, of course.

    Just wondering, and apologies if this has been covered earlier and I missed it: do we know if SWM had actually met TS before Bali? Presumably she knew about him because of the hotel party/credit card episode, but had they ever met face-to-face?

    And, similarly: do we have any indication whether or not TS's mother had ever laid eyes on HM before the Bali courtroom?

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