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  1. #1
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    Why A Scarf?

    I heard it mentioned on this forum and I believe in one of JR's interviews that he put a scarf in JonBenet's coffin. I often wondered,with all the momentos he probably had of JB during her short 6 years of life ...what special meaning this scarf was? Does any one know?

    Also ... is it true she was buried wearing her pageant crown?

  2. #2
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    Well,I guess I'll answer my own question ...

    I finally got DOI from the library,so I'll be reading it over the week end. I looked up the scarf,and except for Patsy saying that John wrapped this scarf around JonBenet like a blanket,nothing was mentioned about what this scarf meant to JR and JB. And yes ... the crown was put on JonBenet just before she was buried.

    But all you posters already knew that ... didn't ya.

  3. #3
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    Sorry Capps, I havent got DOI but did have a quick look online to see if JonBenet was wearing a crown when she was buried, I thought she had but wasnt sure. Anyway I didnt get too far and the kids beckoned so that was the end of that!
    I might see if my library has DOI too, dont want to buy it, but wouldnt mind reading it.
    I didnt know anything about the scarf.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by capps
    Also ... is it true she was buried wearing her pageant crown?
    It is not only true JonBenet was buried wearing her own pageant crown; she was also buried with a second crown, one she never won for herself but which belonged to Kristine Griffin, the daughter of Pam Griffin, JonBenet's pageant costume designer. The crown was a "bucket crown," the classic kingly type with metal arches and fabric inside the arches. So, basically, JonBenet was buried in a pageant gown and with two crowns, even though the pageants were the least important part of her life according to Patsy. At the very least, this set of facts proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Patsy lies. No normal parent buries their children in clothing and props the child had only minimal interest in. I dare say no other child in the history of America has ever been buried with two crowns in the coffin.
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  5. #5
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    egyptian reminder

    I remember when John put the scarf in JBR's coffin, there were a lot of remarks made to its possible previous prurient use.

    I remember JBR was married with the pagent crown, but didn't know there was another in her coffin. It's begining to sound like the Egyptians and their preparations for the next world.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by why_nutt
    It is not only true JonBenet was buried wearing her own pageant crown; she was also buried with a second crown, one she never won for herself but which belonged to Kristine Griffin, the daughter of Pam Griffin, JonBenet's pageant costume designer. The crown was a "bucket crown," the classic kingly type with metal arches and fabric inside the arches. So, basically, JonBenet was buried in a pageant gown and with two crowns, even though the pageants were the least important part of her life according to Patsy. At the very least, this set of facts proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Patsy lies. No normal parent buries their children in clothing and props the child had only minimal interest in. I dare say no other child in the history of America has ever been buried with two crowns in the coffin.
    Why_nutt,

    Although I don't think Patsy did it ... what you stated in your post,was also what I was thinking.Also,since nobody knows 100 percent who killed JonBenet,the Ramsey's,if innocent,doesn't know if JB being paraded in the pageants,didn't bring about a pedophile that watched her,and killed her.

    No ... I would not have buried Jonbenet "pageant style". To each their own I guess ...

  7. #7
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    Hmmm

    My hed is developing detour deadend cracks in it after 8.5 years of thinking about this case, but I seem to recall that the wording in DOI was something to the effect that JR had purchased this beautiful scarf for JonBenet but had never given it to her. My hed asks why not, Christmas would have been a perfect time to do so. THEN JR tucks it around JonBenets neck in the casket. I believe 'tucked' was the word used in DOI, someone correct me if I err here. WHY dig it up or out of wherever it was kept prior to the murder, and put it in the casket with her.

    I betcha forensics could determine if it had been crinkled up and used as a comfort for an erotic device, or IF it had been lying undisturbed in a dresser drawer forever.
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    My hed is developing detour deadend cracks in it after 8.5 years of thinking about this case, but I seem to recall that the wording in DOI was something to the effect that JR had purchased this beautiful scarf for JonBenet but had never given it to her. My hed asks why not, Christmas would have been a perfect time to do so. THEN JR tucks it around JonBenets neck in the casket. I believe 'tucked' was the word used in DOI, someone correct me if I err here. WHY dig it up or out of wherever it was kept prior to the murder, and put it in the casket with her.

    I betcha forensics could determine if it had been crinkled up and used as a comfort for an erotic device, or IF it had been lying undisturbed in a dresser drawer forever.
    Camper,

    Per DOI pg.39
    "Then it was John's turn. He recently purchased a beautiful silk scarf,and he tucked it around JonBenet as if surrounding her with a final blanket of love."

    Very touching. But Patsy has a little background about everything else that was put in the coffin ... special gold bracelet,large gold cross,and pageant tiara. With John's there was no background about the scarf,except for it being recently purchased.For what? For whom? Was it his? Purchased recently,like before JB was murdered or after? She doesn't say.I wonder if John ever told Patsy the meaning of the scarf ... doesn't sound like it.

  9. #9
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by capps
    Camper,

    Per DOI pg.39
    "Then it was John's turn. He recently purchased a beautiful silk scarf,and he tucked it around JonBenet as if surrounding her with a final blanket of love."

    Very touching. But Patsy has a little background about everything else that was put in the coffin ... special gold bracelet,large gold cross,and pageant tiara. With John's there was no background about the scarf,except for it being recently purchased.For what? For whom? Was it his? Purchased recently,like before JB was murdered or after? She doesn't say.I wonder if John ever told Patsy the meaning of the scarf ... doesn't sound like it.

    Thank you for bringing some clarity to my remembrance, funny how the word 'tucked' stuck in my mind. BUT, I had forgotten that it appears that the scarf is being distanced from JonBenet, by DOI NOT saying that it was purchased for her, which it appears it was NOT purchased for her. Why would JR buy a beautiful silk scarf, I guess I am having a dumb 'moment' in that I am thinking about never having known a man who purchased a silk scarf for themselves, er, could happen I guess, I donut swing in heavy financial circles.

    Somewhere deep within my heart I think 'that' scarf has some stories to tell, especially forensic ones. For IF IF 'that' scarf has some pieces of the rope that strangled JonBenet on it, that might be enough to bring some folks into the courtroom.

    Wonder where 'it' had been kept since the 'purchase', folded neatly in a drawer or in a little box.

    This is another eureka moment for me, for exhuming JonBenet.



    .
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  10. #10
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    Ditto Camper. Dig her up. Now.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camper
    Wonder where 'it' had been kept since the 'purchase', folded neatly in a drawer or in a little box.

    This is another eureka moment for me, for exhuming JonBenet.
    What an interesting question. Hmmm. Okay, so John and Patsy supposedly find their daughter dead on the morning of December 26th. They never return to the house once they are shooed out of it. At best, they have Pam retrieve some sentimental curios and clothes. They then spend all their time post-murder supposedly so out of their minds with emotion that they can barely eat or sleep.

    So do tell, John and Patsy. How did that scarf John bought get into his hands in Georgia? Obviously he had no ability or desire to buy it after JonBenet was dead. And equally obviously there was no innocent ability or desire to ask Pam to retrieve it from the house as a sentimental curio, since it had never belonged to JonBenet while she was alive. So a reasonable circumstantial case can be made for the theory that John and/or Patsy knew the scarf was the initial ligature used in JonBenet's death, also knew it could contain trace evidence directly related to either JonBenet's bed, the basement crime scene, the ligature cord, or body fluids, and therefore one or both would have had motive to literally bury this evidence.

    I join the call. This scarf (which is conveniently also not identified as to the colors it is made of) becomes a reason to exhume JonBenet. How very, very, VERY inconvenient it would be if John and Patsy were found to have buried their daughter with a scarf whose fibers match the unidentified ones found on her skin, let alone if so much as a single drop of blood from a quick wiping were present.

    Edited to clarify: I had briefly mentioned that the scarf material was not identified, then quickly saw that it was called silk. Still, we only have Patsy's word that the scarf was silk, and we know at this point that her word is nigh useless. Open questions abound. Were there red fibers in the scarf which might match the ones found on the duct tape? What material exactly are the fibers made of that are not red and were also found on the tape? Could they match the scarf?
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  12. #12
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    Hmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by why_nutt
    What an interesting question. Hmmm. Okay, so John and Patsy supposedly find their daughter dead on the morning of December 26th. They never return to the house once they are shooed out of it. At best, they have Pam retrieve some sentimental curios and clothes. They then spend all their time post-murder supposedly so out of their minds with emotion that they can barely eat or sleep.

    So do tell, John and Patsy. How did that scarf John bought get into his hands in Georgia? Obviously he had no ability or desire to buy it after JonBenet was dead. And equally obviously there was no innocent ability or desire to ask Pam to retrieve it from the house as a sentimental curio, since it had never belonged to JonBenet while she was alive. So a reasonable circumstantial case can be made for the theory that John and/or Patsy knew the scarf was the initial ligature used in JonBenet's death, also knew it could contain trace evidence directly related to either JonBenet's bed, the basement crime scene, the ligature cord, or body fluids, and therefore one or both would have had motive to literally bury this evidence.

    I join the call. This scarf (which is conveniently also not identified as to the colors it is made of) becomes a reason to exhume JonBenet. How very, very, VERY inconvenient it would be if John and Patsy were found to have buried their daughter with a scarf whose fibers match the unidentified ones found on her skin, let alone if so much as a single drop of blood from a quick wiping were present.

    Edited to clarify: I had briefly mentioned that the scarf material was not identified, then quickly saw that it was called silk. Still, we only have Patsy's word that the scarf was silk, and we know at this point that her word is nigh useless. Open questions abound. Were there red fibers in the scarf which might match the ones found on the duct tape? What material exactly are the fibers made of that are not red and were also found on the tape? Could they match the scarf?
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  13. #13
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    桗瑡愠湩整敲瑳湩⁧畱獥楴湯*浈浭*歏祡‬潳䨠桯湡⁤慐獴⁹畳灰獯摥祬映湩⁤桴楥⁲慤杵瑨牥搠慥⁤湯琠 敨洠牯楮杮漠⁦敄散扭牥㈠琶⹨吠敨⁹敮敶⁲਍敲畴湲琠桴⁥潨獵⁥湯散琠敨⁹牡⁥桳潯摥漠瑵漠⁦瑩*瑁戠獥 ⱴ琠敨⁹慨敶倠浡爠瑥楲癥⁥潳敭猠湥楴敭瑮污挠牵潩⁳湡⁤汣瑯敨⹳吠敨⁹桴湥猠数摮愠汬琠敨物ഠ琊浩⁥潰瑳 洭牵敤⁲畳灰獯摥祬猠畯⁴景琠敨物洠湩獤眠瑩⁨浥瑯潩桴瑡琠敨⁹慣慢敲祬攠瑡漠⁲汳敥⹰චഊ匊潤琠 汥ⱬ䨠桯湡⁤慐獴⹹䠠睯搠摩琠慨⁴捳牡⁦潊湨戠畯桧⁴敧⁴湩潴栠獩栠湡獤椠敇牯楧㽡传癢潩獵祬栠⁥慨⁤ 潮愠楢楬祴漠⁲敤楳敲琠畢⁹瑩愠瑦牥ഠ䨊湯敂敮⁴慷⁳敤摡*湁⁤煥慵汬⁹扯楶畯汳⁹桴牥⁥慷⁳潮椠湮捯湥 ⁴扡汩瑩⁹牯搠獥物⁥潴愠歳倠浡琠敲牴敩敶椠⁴牦浯琠敨栠畯敳愠⁳⁡敳瑮浩湥慴畣楲Ɐഠ猊湩散椠⁴慨⁤ 敮敶⁲敢潬杮摥琠潊䉮湥瑥眠楨敬猠敨眠獡愠楬敶*潓愠爠慥潳慮汢⁥楣捲浵瑳湡楴污挠獡⁥慣敢洠摡⁥潦⁲ 桴⁥桴潥祲琠慨⁴潊湨愠摮漯⁲慐獴⁹਍湫睥琠敨猠慣晲眠獡琠敨椠楮楴污氠杩瑡牵⁥獵摥椠潊䉮湥瑥猧搠慥桴 ‬污潳欠敮⁷瑩挠畯摬挠湯慴湩琠慲散攠楶敤据⁥楤敲瑣祬爠汥瑡摥琠楥桴牥䨠湯敂敮❴⁳敢Ɽഠ琊敨戠獡浥湥 ⁴牣浩⁥捳湥ⱥ琠敨氠杩瑡牵⁥潣摲‬牯戠摯⁹汦極獤‬湡⁤桴牥晥牯⁥湯⁥牯戠瑯⁨潷汵⁤慨敶栠摡洠瑯癩⁥潴 氠瑩牥污祬戠牵⁹桴獩攠楶敤据⹥਍਍⁉潪湩琠敨挠污⹬吠楨⁳捳牡⁦眨楨档椠⁳潣癮湥敩瑮祬愠獬潮⁴摩湥楴 楦摥愠⁳潴琠敨挠汯牯⁳瑩椠⁳慭敤漠⥦戠捥浯獥愠爠慥潳潴攠桸浵⁥潊䉮湥瑥*潈⁷敶祲‬਍敶祲‬䕖奒椠据 湯敶楮湥⁴瑩眠畯摬戠⁥晩䨠桯湡⁤慐獴⁹敷敲映畯摮琠慨敶戠牵敩⁤桴楥⁲慤杵瑨牥眠瑩⁨⁡捳牡⁦桷獯⁥ 楦敢獲洠瑡档琠敨甠楮敤瑮晩敩⁤਍湯獥映畯摮漠敨⁲歳湩‬敬⁴污湯⁥晩猠畭档愠⁳⁡楳杮敬搠潲⁰景戠潬 摯映潲⁡畱捩楷楰杮眠牥⁥牰獥湥⹴਍਍摅瑩摥琠汣牡晩㩹䤠栠摡戠楲晥祬洠湥楴湯摥琠慨⁴桴⁥捳牡⁦慭 整楲污眠獡渠瑯椠敤瑮晩敩Ɽ琠敨畱捩汫⁹慳⁷桴瑡椠⁴慷⁳慣汬摥猠汩⹫匠楴汬‬敷漠汮⁹慨敶倠瑡祳猧ഠ眊 牯⁤桴瑡琠敨猠慣晲眠獡猠汩Ⱬ愠摮眠⁥湫睯愠⁴桴獩瀠楯瑮琠慨⁴敨⁲潷摲椠⁳楮桧甠敳敬獳*灏湥焠敵瑳潩獮 愠潢湵⹤圠牥⁥桴牥⁥敲⁤楦敢獲椠桴⁥捳牡⁦桷捩⁨਍業桧⁴慭捴⁨桴⁥湯獥映畯摮漠桴⁥畤瑣琠灡㽥圠慨 ⁴慭整楲污攠慸瑣祬愠敲琠敨映扩牥⁳慭敤漠⁦桴瑡愠敲渠瑯爠摥愠摮眠牥⁥污潳映畯摮漠桴⁥慴数‿潃汵⁤਍ 桴祥洠瑡档琠敨猠慣晲ി弊彟彟彟彟彟彟彟彟ൟഊ圊票也瑵ⱴ眠慨⁴⁡潷摮牥畦汬⁹桴畯桧⁴畯⁴楰捥⁥景眠牯Ⅻ ₠潗摮牥椠⁦桴⁥捳牡⁦慷⁳敲牴敩敶⁤牦浯琠敨戠獡浥湥⁴桷湥䨠桯敷瑮搠睯湯栠獩映物瑳ഠ甊据慨数潲敮 ⁤牴灩ꀿ倠獯楳汢⹥₠慅楳祬猠楬灰摥椠瑮楨⁳潰正瑥䤠⁆䙉椠⁴敷敲猠汩⹫₠䙉䤠⁆瑩眠牥⁥湩敤摥猠汩Ⱬ猠 汩楰正⁳灵攠敶瑲楨杮椠⁴潴捵敨⁳楷桴琠潨敳ഠ瘊牥⁹楦敮漠数楮杮⁳湩琠敨洠瑡牥慩⹬₠焨極瑬牥琠污楫杮 栠牥⁥*潬瑴慳映扡楲⁣湫睯敬杤⥥਍਍䙉䨠桯楤⁤敲牴敩敶琠敨猠慣晲映潲桴⁥慢敳敭瑮‬楥桴牥映潲潳 敭桷牥⁥瑩栠摡戠敥瑳獡敨Ɽ漠⁲剆䵏琠敨戠摯⹹₠䙉栠⁥楤Ɽ瀠牥慨獰漠桴牥⁳慨⁤਍敳湥栠浩眠慥⁲琧慨❴ 猠慣晲ꀮ圠畯摬渠瑯猠瑥琠潯眠汥䙉琠敨猠慣晲栠摡戠敥潦湵⁤乏琠敨戠摯⹹਍਍敂捴慨琠敨瀠牡湥獴漠⁦⁡ 楫湤灡数⁤档汩⁤敷敲渠瑯猠慥捲敨⁤桷湥䈠䑐挠浡⹥₠效挠畯摬栠癡⁥瑳獡敨⁤瑩椠桴⁥瑳晵⁦桴瑡愠湵楴⁥ 慐楰正摥甠⹰₠杁楡਍桷湥搠摩栠⁥異捲慨敳✠桴❥猠慣晲ꀿ䄠⁴敬獡⁴敷欠潮⁷䡗剅⁅桴⁥捳牡⁦卉ꀮ₠汁 桴⁥敲湭湡獴漠⁦潲数₠桴瑡瀠敲灰摥琠敨䔠⁁敤楶散‬桴⁥畤瑣琠灡ⱥ攠捴ꀮഠ挊湯敶楮湥汴⁹楤慳灰慥敲Ɽ 戠瑵丠呏琠敨猠慣晲മഊ吊楨歮椠⁴獩愠潢瑵琠浩⁥潴戠楲杮甠⁰桴⁥楬瑳漠⁦瑳晵⁦桴瑡愠湵楴⁥慐潴歯戠⁹ 敲畱獥⁴景倠⁒湡⁤削ꀮ䄠祮湯⁥慨敶愠捣獥⁳潴✠桴瑡‧楬瑳映牯甠㽳਍਍教⁰楲桧⁴扡畯⁴低ꁗ眠畯摬戠⁥吧 䕈‧楴敭映牯䈠䑐琠畱獥楴湯琠敨映汯獫琠慨⁴慷捴敨⁤潊湨⁳灳捥慩散敲潭祮‬扡畯⁴䡗呁䐠䑉吠䕈匠䅃䙒 ഠ氊潯楬敫‬潣潬獲攠捴ꀮ倠牥慨獰琠敨⁹慨敶愠汬挠畡桧⁴慒湭獥慩戠⁹潮⹷਍਍湁潹敮爠浥浥敢⁲桷瑡䨠桯 慷⁳敷牡湩⁧桷湥琠敨⁹敬瑦琠敨栠畯敳✠桴瑡‧慤㽹₠祍栠摥椠⁳敲敭扭牥湩⁧桴瑡䨠桯慨⁤異⁴湯猠潨瑲 ⁳瑡漠敮瀠楯瑮ഠ攊牡祬漠琧慨❴洠牯楮杮‬䙉䤠愠湩攠牲‬整汬洠⁥桷湥漠⁲晩栠⁥档湡敧⁤汣瑯敨⁳敹⁴ 条楡⹮
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,970
    I don't believe there was anything sinister about the scarf. I was just curious,because there was no mention in DOI of what the scarf meant to John and why he felt the need to put it in with JonBenet.I thought maybe it was mentioned some where else,in an interview or some where, and I missed it.

    Although not important ... there's a picture in DOI of Beth Ramsey holding a baby which is noted as Beth holding little JonBenet. No way is that infant JonBenet. JB was very fair skinned with light hair ... the baby Beth is holding is olive skinned with mounds of dark almost black hair.I wonder what baby she is holding?

    Can you tell I'm into reading DOI?? ...lol.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,061

    Hmmm

    What an interesting question. Hmmm. Okay, so John and Patsy supposedly find their daughter dead on the morning of
    December 26th. They never return to the house once they are shooed out of it. At best, they have Pam retrieve some
    sentimental curios and clothes. They then spend all their time post-murder supposedly so out of their minds with emotion that
    they can barely eat or sleep.

    So do tell, John and Patsy. How did that scarf John bought get into his hands in Georgia? Obviously he had no ability or desire
    to buy it after JonBenet was dead. And equally obviously there was no innocent ability or desire to ask Pam to retrieve it from
    the house as a sentimental curio, since it had never belonged to JonBenet while she was alive. So a reasonable circumstantial
    case can be made for the theory that John and/or Patsy knew the scarf was the initial ligature used in JonBenet's death, also
    knew it could contain trace evidence directly related to either JonBenet's bed, the basement crime scene, the ligature cord, or
    body fluids, and therefore one or both would have had motive to literally bury this evidence.

    I join the call. This scarf (which is conveniently also not identified as to the colors it is made of) becomes a reason to exhume
    JonBenet. How very, very, VERY inconvenient it would be if John and Patsy were found to have buried their daughter with a
    scarf whose fibers match the unidentified ones found on her skin, let alone if so much as a single drop of blood from a quick
    wiping were present.

    Edited to clarify: I had briefly mentioned that the scarf material was not identified, then quickly saw that it was called silk. Still,
    we only have Patsy's word that the scarf was silk, and we know at this point that her word is nigh useless. Open questions
    abound. Were there red fibers in the scarf which might match the ones found on the duct tape? What material exactly are the
    fibers made of that are not red and were also found on the tape? Could they match the scarf?
    __________________


    Why_Nutt, what a wonderfully thought out piece of work! Wonder if the scarf was retrieved from the basement when John went down on his first unchaperoned trip? Possible. Easily slipped into his pocket IF IF it were silk. IF IF it were indeed silk, silk picks up everthing it touches with those very fine openings in the material. (quilter talking here - lottsa fabric knowledge)

    IF John did retrieve the scarf from the basement, either from somewhere it had been stashed, or FROM the body. IF he did, perhaps others had seen him wear 'that' scarf. Would not set too well IF the scarf had been found ON the body.

    Betcha the parents of a kidnapped child were not searched when BPD came. He could have stashed it in the stuff that auntie Pam picked up. Again when did he purchase 'the' scarf? At least we know WHERE the scarf IS. All the remnants of rope that prepped the EA device, the duct tape, etc. conveniently disappeared, but NOT the scarf.

    Think it is about time to bring up the list of stuff that auntie Pam took by request of PR and JR. Anyone have access to 'that' list for us?

    Yep right about NOW would be 'THE' time for BPD to question the folks that watched Johns special ceremony, about WHAT DID THE SCARF look like, colors etc. Perhaps they have all caught Ramnesia by now.

    Anyone remember what John was wearing when they left the house 'that' day? My hed is remembering that John had put on shorts at one point early on 'that' morning, IF I am in err, tell me when or if he changed clothes yet again.
    Opinions expressed by me, are mine, based on life experience, and known facts of any given case.





    """I am just a pixel in the universal plan."""

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