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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by noor View Post
    It's impossible, if that was the case, there would have been blood on the shell no matter what.
    Unless someone rinsed it of and put it right there on the blood.

    I just saw the animation you created explaining why the shot came first.
    You included a video of jodi sitting there explaining to detective Flores what had happened.
    OMG, it was a BIG lie, at the time she was still denying she killed Travis.

    How can you even consider that lie (one of a million she told that day) as a basis for your animation.

    smh.
    well, I think she told some truths in interrogation. Do you think everything she said was a lie. I think Travis was on all fours like she said, don't you?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by noor View Post
    "Witnesses" that never appeared in court, no name, psstt it's al a secret.

    lol.
    I am referring to the ones that did show up. I am on karasoncrime and she seems to think they scored points as well. Oh well, this seems to be what I feared. <modsnip>
    Last edited by bessie; 02-16-2015 at 10:38 PM. Reason: omit the snark, please

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayhuze View Post
    I think the exact reason you gave Jodi is the reason the prosecution went with knife first. it makes special cruelty more likely and they were able to do so because of the ambiguous autopsy. Juan's theory of how the killing went down made no sense and I cringed listening to it. What really mattered was the premeditation and the final outcome of Travis.
    Sorry to quote you again........

    The doc. who did the autopsy testified BEFORE Jodi did.

    We did not hear Jodi's "story" till the defense started their case, while she was on the stand.

    So how can the prosecution change their theory?
    They has no idea what she was going to say.

    It just does not make any sense to say the prosecution changed their course, to make it more cruel, BECAUSE they did not know what Jodi was going to lie to on the stand.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamacurious View Post
    Grayhuze...I think your animation was great. Thanks. I also think that the shot may have been first, with the gun jamming and Travis incapacitated. I also think she was very angry that her plan for a nice, "clean" kill was taken away because Travis was still alive and the gun jammed. I believe her rage kicked in at that point and she was going to make him pay. I also think that no one will ever know what exactly happened in that bathroom on that night because we know Jodi will never tell the truth. Martinez did an excellent job in showing a close story to what happened. Jodi could have picked up the ejected shell and while cleaning up, realized she had it and threw it onto the blood pool herself. (or it could have fallen out of her pocket) We will never know. To me it doesn't make a difference. She is guilty, and she will pay with her life one way or another.
    yeah..that's about how I see it. I think the knife attack became cathartic for her. I thought Juans story didn't make sense. He said she stabbed him those 9 times while he was at the sink in the back. So, travis didn't move at all and just let her stab him? Also he has Travis looking up at Jodi as she slits his throat. I don't believe that at all. I think these images more accurately portray where those events happened.

    slice.jpg at the end of the hall and
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjbpKLzf08

  5. #65
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    Gray, We don't all have to agree on everything, there IS A LOT in this case that we will never know for certain. Thank you for these videos and your explanation. I appreciate it very much. I'm sure it took a lot of work. You are talented, thank you for all of these~ Frigga

  6. #66
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    I am going by Beth Karas' recaps and rereading her notes. Perhaps if it was on TV I would have a different prospective.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frigga View Post
    Gray, We don't all have to agree on everything, there IS A LOT in this case that we will never know for certain. Thank you for these videos and your explanation. I appreciate it very much. I'm sure it took a lot of work. You are talented, thank you for all of these~ Frigga
    I probably agree on every single other aspect of the case, just not the sequencing portion and aspects surrounding that. You guys should check out my Twitter video about arias. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXd0IPu_9XM

  8. #68
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    Gray and I don't agree on ALL of it, but he is right, gunshot first. Here's the Doubter's Road to Recovery in 10 easy steps:


    clear.jpg

  9. #69
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    Because...

    beginning.jpg

  10. #70
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    Just ONE more now...foot2.jpg


  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by grayhuze View Post
    I am referring to the ones that did show up. I am on karasoncrime and she seems to think they scored points as well. Oh well, this seems to be what I feared. <modsnip>
    <modsnip>

    If you really believe Horn and Flores committed perjury, you should be outraged. The ends don't justify the means; JM isn't allowed to suborn perjury, State witnesses aren't allowed to perjure themselves. If you believe all that you believe it was a dirty verdict. I don't.
    Last edited by bessie; 02-16-2015 at 10:39 PM. Reason: scroll and roll
    RIP, Cassini. To her tireless overseers- job well done.

  12. #72
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    I believe Dr. Horn cleared that up during his recent testimony in October:

    Dr. Horn testified that was a typo. He was crystal clear in his testimony about the damage caused by a shot to the head in this area of the brain

    http://jodi-arias.wikispaces.com/Horn+Final

    "Your report stated there was no damage to the dura mater membrane. Can you explain how the brain can be damaged without damaging the membrane?"
    Horn: I, ah, let me review my report... it’s the usual protocol with the report so clearly the dura mater had to have been perforated so that would be a typographical error in my report.

    Horn: A bullet as it passes through something soft like brain, will create what is called a temporary cavity, and you see that in ballistic gelatin when you test fire a bullet through gelatin. You see it in the ballistic labs. It’s the same concept in the brain. You get a very large open area that squashes the brain around it into the skull around it, and then that will collapse back down ... and you may be able to see a wound track, but in this case, we don’t. But it damages areas of the brain away from the frontal lobe, even only passing through that one part of the brain, other areas of the brain are involved and damaged.
    Martinez: So if it was the first shot, what is your opinion as to whether or not Mr. Alexander would have been incapacitated?
    Horn: He would have been incapacitated.
    Martinez: And would this have been an immediate sort of reaction, seconds?
    Horn: Yes.
    Martinez: By seconds, how many seconds would you indicate?
    Horn: A second or two. He would collapse to the ground and be unresponsive.
    Martinez: I don’t have any other questions.

    So his testimony seems to indicate that is how Dr. Horn determined that the shot was not first. Travis would not have been able to get up on his feet or crawl any distance.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Your videos are incredibly well done! Thanks for sharing them here.

    As for gunshot first. Your conclusion asks...why the robbery etc. if she intended to use a knife? One reply- if she only intended to use a gun, why did she have a knife on her in the bathroom?

    I think she used the gun to force him to sit down- he is staring right at her, angry or fearful in that final photo, and no way he volunteered to sit down. Once he was sitting she pulled out the knife. She used the knife because she wanted to him to feel as much pain as possible.

    To your other points. Horn's typo was just that. A typo. And no, I don't believe Flores lied or "took one for the team." With sincere due respect, I think that's an offensive suggestion.
    The videos are very well done although they don't sway me whatsoever.

    The is no evidence that Flores lied and he has never been charged with perjury either because he didn't lie.

    Flores is a human being and he is as prone as anyone to misunderstand things. And he is no ME nor is he even a forensic tech.

    From the very first recorded deposition of Dr. Horn he has always said the shot to the head came last. The DT does not have one transcribed word or statement made by Dr. Horn to the contrary either.

    Personally, I think she had both, the sharp knife with her (we already know she was in possession of one since she slashed Travis and Lisa's tires) and the gun when she first entered the bathroom. She had no need to waste time running down to the kitchen giving Travis a chance to escape his house of horrors. Like everything else she had planned out she came prepared with her own personal weapons.

    She was going to use the gun only if necessary. She wouldn't want to use it because gunshots could have been overheard by neighbors.

    Jodi is one of the most brutal sadistic murderers I have seen in recent history. Using a gun is a very impersonal method. JA wanted to use a weapon that was up close and personal. She wanted to see the shock and horror on Travis' face when she first plunged the knife deep into his chest. She wanted him to see who was going to stab him to death...slash his throat. She wanted him to see his own blood as it was gushing out everywhere. JA is diabolical and cruelty is the name of her sick twisted game

    Imo, the reason she decided to use the gun at all is when she was dragging him back to his shower tomb she heard air escaping from his lungs and most likely coming out of his mouth and his throat which had been cut ear to ear. She mistakenly thought he was still alive. Before putting him in the shower she made sure he was dead by shooting him once in the head.

    That is why the bullet casing landed in already spent blood in the bathroom. It shows Travis was already bleeding profusely. I don't believe the bullet hopped and jumped all around theory either. When ejected it landed in pooled blood causing it to remain in that position having no blood spatter on the top nor any finite sprays inside of it or anywhere else except on the bottom where it landed in Travis' blood. Other than that the bullet casing was pristine. By the time he was shot he was already dead and most of his blood had already been left on the floor.

    <modsnip>

    I will never believe she shot him first and the forensic evidence doesn't support it either.

    In the end it matters not anyway. JSS has ruled long ago no matter which came first it still meets the law definition of 'cruelty.' So its like beating an already dead horse to death, imo.
    Last edited by LambChop; 02-16-2015 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Unnecessary comment.
    "Pardon Our Noise, It's the Sound of Freedom" USMC New River Air Station, Jacksonville, North Carolina

  14. #74
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    well, the prosecution has a right to change the sequencing and prove it. But to do so, I believe, but can't prove that horn claimed he couldn't remember and flores, the non-expert and the voice of the 48 hour special had to admit but had trouble doing so that he misheard Horn. He struggled. He said "I wasn't inaccurate, I was mistaken" well, what is the difference?
    Last edited by grayhuze; 02-17-2015 at 12:07 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    I believe Dr. Horn cleared that up during his recent testimony in October:

    Dr. Horn testified that was a typo. He was crystal clear in his testimony about the damage caused by a shot to the head in this area of the brain

    http://jodi-arias.wikispaces.com/Horn+Final



    Horn: A bullet as it passes through something soft like brain, will create what is called a temporary cavity, and you see that in ballistic gelatin when you test fire a bullet through gelatin. You see it in the ballistic labs. It’s the same concept in the brain. You get a very large open area that squashes the brain around it into the skull around it, and then that will collapse back down ... and you may be able to see a wound track, but in this case, we don’t. But it damages areas of the brain away from the frontal lobe, even only passing through that one part of the brain, other areas of the brain are involved and damaged.
    Martinez: So if it was the first shot, what is your opinion as to whether or not Mr. Alexander would have been incapacitated?
    Horn: He would have been incapacitated.
    Martinez: And would this have been an immediate sort of reaction, seconds?
    Horn: Yes.
    Martinez: By seconds, how many seconds would you indicate?
    Horn: A second or two. He would collapse to the ground and be unresponsive.
    Martinez: I don’t have any other questions.

    So his testimony seems to indicate that is how Dr. Horn determined that the shot was not first. Travis would not have been able to get up on his feet or crawl any distance.
    http://youtu.be/IzjY6c2TYQI
    http://youtu.be/oxLZC31zsI4

    how do you explain this?

    Horn said "I think I said here that he wouldn't have been immediately incapacitate" Then he glanced at juan and then said he misspoke. How does that happen? I think if these two people were defense witnesses and said the very same things they would be crucified. anyhow. it is what it is.


    "Your report stated there was no damage to the dura mater membrane. Can you explain how the brain can be damaged without damaging the membrane?"
    Horn: I, ah, let me review my report... it’s the usual protocol with the report so clearly the dura mater had to have been perforated so that would be a typographical error in my report.

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