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  1. #16
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    Not the fans matter now as they are to do with the facts of the case and not the law, but his memory did not conveniently fail wrt the fans.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirage1 View Post
    The photos do depict the scene at the time of the shooting, the police said so, and why on earth would they move around key items before taking photos? makes no sense, and no evidence of it. Rensburg not being accurate on who went up first upstairs has NOTHING to do with evidence being moved the scene 'contaminated' at all. It is a non sequitur.

    You are missing the point. A mistake of memory does not excuse the fact the photos make OP's story impossible. I am not sure if you are aware of the gravity of the fans, because Op's whole story revolves around moving them because it gave Reeva the opportunity to slip past him without him noticing. If the big fan was moved to front of the bed as OP claims then the duvet could not have been under it. The small fan which he INSISTS was also plugged in could not have been because there was no room for it on the adapter. So you see the tangled web of lies? His story cannot be true according to the photos.

    How does the state prove crime scene photos do depict the relevant scene accurately? I thought it was to be assumed they are not lying and the photos are accurate, rather than trusting the accused. If we take your line of reasoning then we might as well throw out all crime scene photos.
    Why do they lock down scenes of crimes if it is not to be clear that the photos of the crime scene are an accurate reflection of the scene at the time of the crime or as soon after as possible? Since they didn't in this case, the photos can't be taken as accurate. There is considerable evidence that the scene was attended by a number of people before the photos were taken, and these people's evidence is contradictory. Moreover, we can imagine that the position of fans and plugs was the last thing on anyone's mind in the early stages of this case. So:
    1. The State didn't call two policemen who claimed to have been there before Col. van Rensburg. Why not? They could have explained why there was a discrepancy between their's and van Renburg's testimony and then stated what they saw and did while they were upstairs.
    2. Van Rensburg's evidence was also contradicted by Botha's in regard to where Oscar was when Botha arrived - clearly Col. van Renburg couldn't have gone upstairs with Botha when Botha hadn't yet arrived. Something is very amiss with his evidence.
    3. We also know that Col van Rensburg did touch the plugs at some point as there is a photo of this, and we know from his testimony that he went out onto the balcony on arrival, apparently without moving anything, which might explain the angle of the fan or indeed it's position. He also said in cross that he picked up the fan, the big silver fan, but Roux was fishing for something else and didn't follow up the point.

    So how anyone can claim that the photo evidence is a true reflection of the scene, I don't know.

    I do see the significance of the fans and duvet. But only the duvet was in that position for sure. Oscar might have just been mistaken about the placement of the fans and the photo evidence doesn't prove otherwise if it doesn't reflect the true scene at the time.

  3. #18
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    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...ed-to-a-status

    Pistorius gets more privileges in jail, upgraded to A status

    Pistorius' spokesperson, Annalise Burgess told the Daily Mail, that her client would now enjoy a wider range of privileges. These would include personal contact with visitors - he would be allowed to hug and kiss them and a substantial allowance to buy toiletries and treats.

    The Daily Mail also reports that Kgosi Mampuru prison authorities believes he poses little threat and this influenced their decision to upgrade his category status which comes two years after he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp. Pistorius will also have the freedom to pick a hobby of his choice and wear jewellery.

  4. #19
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    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...ed-to-a-status

    Pistorius gets more privileges in jail, upgraded to A status

    Pistorius' spokesperson, Annalise Burgess told the Daily Mail, that her client would now enjoy a wider range of privileges. These would include personal contact with visitors - he would be allowed to hug and kiss them and a substantial allowance to buy toiletries and treats.

    The Daily Mail also reports that Kgosi Mampuru prison authorities believes he poses little threat and this influenced their decision to upgrade his category status which comes two years after he shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp. Pistorius will also have the freedom to pick a hobby of his choice and wear jewellery.

    -.-.-.-.-.-.-

    "Clearly, the Correctional Services Department has a short memory [about what Pistorius did]," Reeva's uncle, Mike Steenkamp, said to Times Live. "If they grant these things, they must think he is a model prisoner." - See more at: http://www.gospelherald.com/articles....rP25Mpvo.dpuf

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    Why do they lock down scenes of crimes if it is not to be clear that the photos of the crime scene are an accurate reflection of the scene at the time of the crime or as soon after as possible? Since they didn't in this case, the photos can't be taken as accurate.
    As you see it, all police photographs in all criminal cases should be deemed inaccurate and unreliable… since no crime scene was ever photographed before anybody (police officer, police investigator, paramedic, etc) had done a walkabout to ascertain the situation.

    There is considerable evidence that the scene was attended by a number of people before the photos were taken, and these people's evidence is contradictory. Moreover, we can imagine that the position of fans and plugs was the last thing on anyone's mind in the early stages of this case. So:
    1. The State didn't call two policemen who claimed to have been there before Col. van Rensburg. Why not? They could have explained why there was a discrepancy between their's and van Renburg's testimony and then stated what they saw and did while they were upstairs.
    Yes, authorized and mandated individuals went into the bedroom, bathroom and everywhere in OP's house to do their job… that does NOT constitute evidence that the crime scene was altered or tampered.

    Nel didn't call the 2 policemen… why would he ?… It is not for the State to call upon witnesses in attempts to establish that the unsubstantiated claims made the Defence are wrong.

    What is surprising is that Roux didn't call those 2 policemen.

    BTW, who are those 2 policemen ? Who made the claim they arrived at the scene before Col. van Rensburg ?

    2. Van Rensburg's evidence was also contradicted by Botha's in regard to where Oscar was when Botha arrived - clearly Col. van Renburg couldn't have gone upstairs with Botha when Botha hadn't yet arrived. Something is very amiss with his evidence.
    I don't recall Botha testifying… so how can Van Rensburg's evidence be contradicted by Botha ??

    3. We also know that Col van Rensburg did touch the plugs at some point as there is a photo of this, and we know from his testimony that he went out onto the balcony on arrival, apparently without moving anything, which might explain the angle of the fan or indeed it's position. He also said in cross that he picked up the fan, the big silver fan, but Roux was fishing for something else and didn't follow up the point.
    Yes, a great many things were touched and moved after the scene was documented by photographs… that's perfectly normal and standard operating procedures in a crime scene investigation.

    I'm not sure whether you are saying Van Rensburg was reliable and credible witness or not… some bits of his testimony you discredit (because they contradict OP's version) and other bits of his testimony you reaffirm (because they might help OP's version)

    So how anyone can claim that the photo evidence is a true reflection of the scene, I don't know.

    I do see the significance of the fans and duvet. But only the duvet was in that position for sure. Oscar might have just been mistaken about the placement of the fans and the photo evidence doesn't prove otherwise if it doesn't reflect the true scene at the time.
    Why wouldn't the photo evidence be a true reflection of the scene ?… where is the evidence it is not ?…

    Individuals who did not testify, unasked and unanswered questions, speculation based on possible events, etc certainly do not amount to proof that the photo evidence is not accurate.

    2 questions whose answers may prevent futile discussions :

    Is there any of State's evidence which contradicts OP's version of events that you find reliable and credible ?

    Is there any element in OP's version of events which contradicts the State's evidence that you find unreliable or not credible ?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ_DS View Post
    As you see it, all police photographs in all criminal cases should be deemed inaccurate and unreliable… since no crime scene was ever photographed before anybody (police officer, police investigator, paramedic, etc) had done a walkabout to ascertain the situation.



    Yes, authorized and mandated individuals went into the bedroom, bathroom and everywhere in OP's house to do their job… that does NOT constitute evidence that the crime scene was altered or tampered.

    Nel didn't call the 2 policemen… why would he ?… It is not for the State to call upon witnesses in attempts to establish that the unsubstantiated claims made the Defence are wrong.

    What is surprising is that Roux didn't call those 2 policemen.

    BTW, who are those 2 policemen ? Who made the claim they arrived at the scene before Col. van Rensburg ?



    I don't recall Botha testifying… so how can Van Rensburg's evidence be contradicted by Botha ??



    Yes, a great many things were touched and moved after the scene was documented by photographs… that's perfectly normal and standard operating procedures in a crime scene investigation.

    I'm not sure whether you are saying Van Rensburg was reliable and credible witness or not… some bits of his testimony you discredit (because they contradict OP's version) and other bits of his testimony you reaffirm (because they might help OP's version)



    Why wouldn't the photo evidence be a true reflection of the scene ?… where is the evidence it is not ?…

    Individuals who did not testify, unasked and unanswered questions, speculation based on possible events, etc certainly do not amount to proof that the photo evidence is not accurate.

    2 questions whose answers may prevent futile discussions :

    Is there any of State's evidence which contradicts OP's version of events that you find reliable and credible ?

    Is there any element in OP's version of events which contradicts the State's evidence that you find unreliable or not credible ?
    How would you weigh up the likely veracity of the photos of the bedroom, given van Rensburg's evidence? How did he go on the balcony and not move anything if the big fan was where it was in the photo?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    How would you weigh up the likely veracity of the photos of the bedroom, given van Rensburg's evidence? How did he go on the balcony and not move anything if the big fan was where it was in the photo?
    I don't see the problem with Van Rensburg going onto the balcony with the large fan being where it is on the photo.

    As per the photo, the right-hand side balcony door is open… the right-hand side curtains are partially open…

    I suppose it may give a false impression there is no room to maneuver but it is not so as curtains are not a rigid unmovable obstacle which can obstruct one's passage.

    How Van Rensburg did it… I would imagine that an experienced police officer doing a walkabout of a low-risk crime scene would proceed slowly and methodically, paying attention not to disturb anything.

    large fan.jpg

    As for your reply, I found it lacking answers to the questions I posed to you…

    … but I would understand if you declined answering them on account that it would jeopardize your unwavering faith in OP, his version and his claims.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    Why do they lock down scenes of crimes if it is not to be clear that the photos of the crime scene are an accurate reflection of the scene at the time of the crime or as soon after as possible? Since they didn't in this case, the photos can't be taken as accurate. There is considerable evidence that the scene was attended by a number of people before the photos were taken, and these people's evidence is contradictory. Moreover, we can imagine that the position of fans and plugs was the last thing on anyone's mind in the early stages of this case. So:
    1. The State didn't call two policemen who claimed to have been there before Col. van Rensburg. Why not? They could have explained why there was a discrepancy between their's and van Renburg's testimony and then stated what they saw and did while they were upstairs.
    2. Van Rensburg's evidence was also contradicted by Botha's in regard to where Oscar was when Botha arrived - clearly Col. van Renburg couldn't have gone upstairs with Botha when Botha hadn't yet arrived. Something is very amiss with his evidence.
    3. We also know that Col van Rensburg did touch the plugs at some point as there is a photo of this, and we know from his testimony that he went out onto the balcony on arrival, apparently without moving anything, which might explain the angle of the fan or indeed it's position. He also said in cross that he picked up the fan, the big silver fan, but Roux was fishing for something else and didn't follow up the point.

    So how anyone can claim that the photo evidence is a true reflection of the scene, I don't know.

    I do see the significance of the fans and duvet. But only the duvet was in that position for sure. Oscar might have just been mistaken about the placement of the fans and the photo evidence doesn't prove otherwise if it doesn't reflect the true scene at the time.
    Oscar cannot be mistaken about the fans as he strongly testified about them, and if he did not move the fans, how did reeva manage to slip behind him unnoticed to the bathroom? You see, for his story to be true he MUST have moved the fans, that's why he fabricated that story in the 1st place. It needed to buy him the time, and not see reeva.

    So all we have left is the 'contamination' theory which is bordering on OJ simpson levels where you are claiming that police officers innocently happened to move key pieces of evidence around, and coincidently positioned them in places that directly contradict OP's story. I doubt you really believe that.

  9. #24
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    He may be fast but karma will catch up to him and the judge who played dumb by acting like she believed this piece of crap. My bedroom is bigger than his and i still dont see how his explanation could even hold water in the eyes of that judge. She should be happy that Tmz is not following her around while she spends that blood money. She also may have felt prejudice towards reeva and her family because................
    You can fool some of the people some of the time; But guess what? The Bus Stops Here (Life No Parole/ Don't Pass Go: Don't Collect Your $200)

  10. #25
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    Meanwhile.......OP receives threats of being poisoned in prison!

    [modsnip]

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...ay-be-poisoned

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...1#.VPcG1ZMndc4
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 03-10-2015 at 08:53 AM. Reason: remove forbidden link


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirage1 View Post
    Oscar cannot be mistaken about the fans as he strongly testified about them, and if he did not move the fans, how did reeva manage to slip behind him unnoticed to the bathroom? You see, for his story to be true he MUST have moved the fans, that's why he fabricated that story in the 1st place. It needed to buy him the time, and not see reeva.

    So all we have left is the 'contamination' theory which is bordering on OJ simpson levels where you are claiming that police officers innocently happened to move key pieces of evidence around, and coincidently positioned them in places that directly contradict OP's story. I doubt you really believe that.
    Totally agree…

    Considering it was a very hot and humid day, I suspect :

    - The large fan was where it appears on the photo
    - The large fan was pointing in the direction it appears on the photo
    - The curtains where open as they appear on the photo
    - The balcony door was open as it appears on the photo

    … so as to blow cooler night air into OP's bedroom… and they were never moved or changed by either OP or the Police.

    OP's story about moving 2 fans to place them at the foot of the bed and to orient them both directly onto him and Reeva makes very little sense… it would be like trying to fall back asleep with the noise* and sensations of gale-like winds.

    … nevertheless OP had to concoct some kind of story in which :

    - he would not be able to hear Reeva leave the bedroom : noise from 2 running fans

    - he would not be able to see Reeva leave the bedroom : face away from the bed

    - he would not be able to see that Reeva was not in bed : pitch darkness (close balcony door and curtains)

    - he would re-open the curtains and the balcony door : yell for help

    … to be fair, just as OP had no other options but the mistaken identity intruder story, he had not many or no other options but the fans/curtains story.

    As one would expect, it generated a great many nonsensical and/or contradictory elements in the overall story.

    * not only the noise of fan blades as they slice the air, not only the noise of the wind itself as it passes your ears BUT ALSO the intermittent noise of the magazines stacked on both bedside tables whose pages would have been flying open and close like crazy under such a constant wind !!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApplesInMyBra View Post
    Thanks L2L!

    Can you please repost that first link? It doesn't seem to work.

    Thank you!

    It worked for me via Chrome but not IE - strange!


  13. #28
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    I hear the circus is back in town soon...

    "3. Whether the court was correct in its construction and reliance on an alternative version of the accused and that this alternative version was reasonably possibly true"

    No wonder OP is running scared... this is a golden hand dealt by Masipa, I hope Nel picks it up and plays his cards right.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApplesInMyBra View Post
    Thanks L2L!

    Can you please repost that first link? It doesn't seem to work.

    Thank you!
    Sorry about that, but I tried every which way to get it to work, but couldn't get it!

  15. #30
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    In the comments section on the Daily Mail on the article

    Jailed Oscar Pistorius 'is so paranoid about being poisoned in prison that he only eats tinned food - and has lost so much weight his blades no longer fit'

    Read more:*http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ixzz3TUMJSMxq*
    Follow us:*@MailOnline on Twitter*|*DailyMail on Facebook


    there was mention of a case next week! What case?

    Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk

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