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  1. #46
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    OP scores in prison.... showing photos and video,
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-gangster.html
    Last edited by L2L; 03-11-2015 at 08:09 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherbert View Post
    The question of whether or not Seekoei can be overturned or distinguished from the present case, bearing in mind that it appears to have stood as a precedent since 1984, is unchartered territory.

    There are sound and logical reasons why Seekoei should be reversed, but, as far as I can remember, Masipa didn't elaborate on why she didn't consider Seekoei to be a problem for the State.

    Roux will doubtless seek to persuade her that OP is entitled to rely on Seekoei, on the grounds that it would be unfair to him to move the goalposts after his trial.

    Also, as it is rare for the State to appeal against conviction, (possibly due to Seekoie and the issue of funding/caseload), I imagine that the vast majority of legal practitioners have not encountered a scenario where the Defence is not only opposing the appeal itself, but has also lodged an application challenging the trial judge's decision to grant the Prosecution leave to appeal.

    I don't know what the rationale behind Seekoei was - here is the Appeal judgement - it's in Afrikaans

    http://www.saflii.org/cgi-bin/disp.p...ery=%20seekoei

    Maybe one of our Afrikaans speaking websleuthers can help us out?
    I speak Afrikaans and would be happy to read through it, but what are the exact questions you want answered?
    Last edited by ApplesInMyBra; 03-11-2015 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Corrected idiotic typo

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin de France View Post
    .....if she did say it ....could it have been nothing matters because nothing can bring her daughter back ?
    If she meant "nothing matters" because it won't bring Reeva back, fair enough. I can understand that. But the correct sentence does matter - for all future victims of a trigger-happy idiot.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApplesInMyBra View Post
    I speak Afrikaans and would be happy to read through it, but what are the exact questions you want answered?
    Thanks Apples. I was wondering why the Appeal Court decided that the State should not be permitted to appeal. Was it on the basis of fairness to the Respondent? I gather that he was convicted of robbery, but not of burglary, which meant that the State couldn't appeal against conviction as robbery was considered to be a competent verdict.

    Had the first instance decision been in the Magistrates' court, there is no such barrier to an appeal. Also, it doesn't make sense to me that a person who is entirely acquitted is at risk of an appeal, but not a person who is convicted of a lesser charge.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by soozieqtips View Post
    If she meant "nothing matters" because it won't bring Reeva back, fair enough. I can understand that. But the correct sentence does matter - for all future victims of a trigger-happy idiot.
    BiB… very true !!

    One of the problems with the OP case is the message it sends…

    Domestic abusers and trigger-happy domestic abusers were shown that it is better to have a dead victim than a live one.

    - A live victim will press charges, testify, vilify you, contradict you, etc…

    - A dead victim opens up various alternate scenarios : the accident, the mistaken identity, etc… for which the perpetrator is the only witness.

    It reminds me of a "joke" I heard in the US some years ago about the financial implications of road accident litigations… it went something like this : "If you you hit a pedestrian with your car, you're better off putting it in reverse, backing up and running him over again to finish the job"

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by L2L View Post
    OP scores in prison.... showing photos and video,
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-gangster.html
    To me, this video disproves the articles circulating from the family (I think it was Carl) & the media that state OP has lost so much weight that his prosthesis no longer fit correctly and are creating problems such as sores, pain, etc., due to an ill fit.

    He seems to move around quite easily in this video playing soccer/shoot out with this inmate. Runs quickly and turns sharply to retieve balls. Moves heavy cemented pole with ease.

    I'm guessing they fit just fine.

  7. #52
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    Now that we’ve all had ample opportunity to digest, discuss and dispute or otherwise Judge Masipa’s judgment and sentence, it’s interesting but very frustrating to go back to the following link again.

    Oscar must not be believed – Judge Greenland and Ulrich Roux

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKGrBLfhBs

    As Judge Greenland hasn’t been posting very infrequently for quite some time, I missed the following discussion altogether. It’s only short.

    Accepting responsibility – Judge Greenland and Prof. James Grant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lru3...ure=youtu.be&a

    A reminder that tomorrow, Friday the 13th, is the date set for the hearing of the defence’s application for leave to appeal the granting of the State’s leave to appeal to the Court of Appeal.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #53
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    That should have read has been posting very infrequently.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4MrsB View Post
    To me, this video disproves the articles circulating from the family (I think it was Carl) & the media that state OP has lost so much weight that his prosthesis no longer fit correctly and are creating problems such as sores, pain, etc., due to an ill fit.

    He seems to move around quite easily in this video playing soccer/shoot out with this inmate. Runs quickly and turns sharply to retieve balls. Moves heavy cemented pole with ease.

    I'm guessing they fit just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Judgejudi View Post
    Now that we’ve all had ample opportunity to digest, discuss and dispute or otherwise Judge Masipa’s judgment and sentence, it’s interesting but very frustrating to go back to the following link again.

    Oscar must not be believed – Judge Greenland and Ulrich Roux

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKGrBLfhBs

    As Judge Greenland hasn’t been posting very infrequently for quite some time, I missed the following discussion altogether. It’s only short.

    Accepting responsibility – Judge Greenland and Prof. James Grant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lru3...ure=youtu.be&a

    A reminder that tomorrow, Friday the 13th, is the date set for the hearing of the defence’s application for leave to appeal the granting of the State’s leave to appeal to the Court of Appeal.
    At the time of the events…

    - OP was a free man, surrounded by family and friends, pursuing his career, living in a secured house located on a secured estate, etc…

    - Yet it was argued by Roux and Defence witnesses that OP's past experiences as a victim of criminality combined with his disability made him psychologically prone to be extremely fearful, paranoid, etc…

    Now serving his sentence...

    - OP has lost his freedom, he is an incarcerated man in an unfamiliar and dangerous place, he is surrounded by criminals, he fears for his life, he fears being poisoned, etc…

    - OP has lost weight, his prosthetics do not fit him properly, his stumps are injured, reduced mobility, etc…

    … One would expect OP to cower in fear and panic, to be highly depressed, even to be suicidal

    - Yet he is filmed playing soccer with an inmate quite normally !!!

  10. #55
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    Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan 6 minutes ago
    NPA tells @eNCAnews that #OscarPistorius application tomorrow is "unprecedented and we will oppose it".

    Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan 7 minutes ago
    #OscarPistorius legal team will tomorrow ask Judge Masipa to concede she may have made mistake by granting state leave to appeal. @eNCAnews

    Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan 8 minutes ago
    State says #OscarPistorius application re its appeal against his murder acquittal is "unprecedented", they will fight it tmw @eNCAnews
    "O, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" Sir Walter Scott


  11. #56
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    Paul Tilsley@paultilsley 5m5 minutes ago
    #OscarPistorius appeal moved to South Gauteng High Court tomorrow. ENCA providing pool video
    "O, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" Sir Walter Scott

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ_DS View Post
    At the time of the events…

    - OP was a free man, surrounded by family and friends, pursuing his career, living in a secured house located on a secured estate, etc…

    - Yet it was argued by Roux and Defence witnesses that OP's past experiences as a victim of criminality combined with his disability made him psychologically prone to be extremely fearful, paranoid, etc…

    Now serving his sentence...

    - OP has lost his freedom, he is an incarcerated man in an unfamiliar and dangerous place, he is surrounded by criminals, he fears for his life, he fears being poisoned, etc…

    - OP has lost weight, his prosthetics do not fit him properly, his stumps are injured, reduced mobility, etc…

    … One would expect OP to cower in fear and panic, to be highly depressed, even to be suicidal

    - Yet he is filmed playing soccer with an inmate quite normally !!!

    ...and the inmate he's playing soccer with is Radovan Krejcir, an individual referred to as a powerful "underworld gangster" and associated with numerous murders. One currently pending & others lined up to be charged. . . . Yah, I'm not buying it either.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherbert View Post
    Thanks Apples. I was wondering why the Appeal Court decided that the State should not be permitted to appeal. Was it on the basis of fairness to the Respondent? I gather that he was convicted of robbery, but not of burglary, which meant that the State couldn't appeal against conviction as robbery was considered to be a competent verdict.

    Had the first instance decision been in the Magistrates' court, there is no such barrier to an appeal. Also, it doesn't make sense to me that a person who is entirely acquitted is at risk of an appeal, but not a person who is convicted of a lesser charge.
    High Sherbert,
    It took me a while to read and re-read this document. The writer didn't use spell check at all - many many typos!

    This is not the actual Seekoei Appeal judgement, but this document deals with the Appeal to question the description of robbery as "Robbery consists in the theft of property by intentionally using violence to induce submission to the taking of it from the person of another or in his presence."
    The judge in the Seekoei case found that he could not be found guilty of robbery because the woman he attacked was bound to a pole 2kms from her store that he stole from (using this description of robbery).

    Under the provisions of Art. 333 it authorizes the Minister of Justice, when he "doubts about the correctness of a ruling on a question of law that a higher court in a criminal case gave" to argue the matter before the appellate court so that the question of law can be clarified for the future guidance of all courts.

    So this appeal was brought before this appeals court by the Seekoei Prosecutor in order to question the accuracy of this definition of robbery, not the judgement of Seekoei.

    This appeals court judge had to answer the two following questions:
    1. It is a requirement in our law that, for the crime of robbery, the theft must take place in the presence of the victim?
    2. Do the facts set out above state the crime of housebreaking with the intent of stealing and theft?

    The article then goes into great detail and references to other cases to answer these questions, and the conclusion was that both answers to the questions above are NO.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApplesInMyBra View Post
    High Sherbert,
    It took me a while to read and re-read this document. The writer didn't use spell check at all - many many typos!

    This is not the actual Seekoei Appeal judgement, but this document deals with the Appeal to question the description of robbery as "Robbery consists in the theft of property by intentionally using violence to induce submission to the taking of it from the person of another or in his presence."
    The judge in the Seekoei case found that he could not be found guilty of robbery because the woman he attacked was bound to a pole 2kms from her store that he stole from (using this description of robbery).

    Under the provisions of Art. 333 it authorizes the Minister of Justice, when he "doubts about the correctness of a ruling on a question of law that a higher court in a criminal case gave" to argue the matter before the appellate court so that the question of law can be clarified for the future guidance of all courts.

    So this appeal was brought before this appeals court by the Seekoei Prosecutor in order to question the accuracy of this definition of robbery, not the judgement of Seekoei.

    This appeals court judge had to answer the two following questions:
    1. It is a requirement in our law that, for the crime of robbery, the theft must take place in the presence of the victim?
    2. Do the facts set out above state the crime of housebreaking with the intent of stealing and theft?

    The article then goes into great detail and references to other cases to answer these questions, and the conclusion was that both answers to the questions above are NO.
    Thanks Apples - I'm so sorry - I thought we'd found out why the State was not permitted to appeal a mistake of law.

  15. #60
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    Anyone have any idea what time the appeal of the appeal is being heard? I'm working till lunchtime tomorrow (UK time) and don't want to miss it! I trust the regulars will post updates

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