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  1. #1
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
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    OH - Cleveland: Tamir Rice, 12, caused his own death failing to ‘avoid injury’


    According to court documents obtained by BuzzFeed’s Stephanie McNeal, the city of Cleveland, Ohio is claiming that 12-year-old Tamir Rice’s death — as well as the pain and suffering caused to his family by it — was his own fault.

    [...]

    The city responded to the second lawsuit by claiming that the 12-year-old’s death was his own fault, writing that “Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly and proximately caused by the failure of Plaintiffs’ decedent to exercise due care to avoid injury.”


    link

    Comment: I have a problem with the City of Clevland's position. I also have a problem with toy-makers who make gun replicas that cannot be noticeably differentiated from their deadly counterparts.



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  2. #2
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    What did LEO's initial stmts to investigators say?

    I do not recall having seen this bbm before, re LEO's initial statements to investigators.
    Could have missed it before in MSM, if it was mentioned.

    ".... they claimed that Rice was with a group of young boys and was waving the gun around with the intention of shooting someone."
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/c...-avoid-injury/

    buzzfeed (link below) says nothing about ^LEO's initial stmts re Rice 'with group of boys'.
    Article has link to amended complaint, filed Jan 30, 2105.
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcn...uit#.wmmY7ExYy

    From vids I've seen (sorry, no links) there was no LEO initial stmt re Rice w 'group of other young boys' around that he was playing with. But from vids, imo, Rice w an operational gun could have shot other ppl and caused physical injury or death.

    Could have missed LEOs initial stmts to investigators in MSM news stories before.
    ETA: Just skimmed 71 page complaint, could have missed it again, but did not see it.
    Last edited by al66pine; 03-02-2015 at 05:13 PM.

  3. #3
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    There is video footage that shows Tamir playing by himself in a picnic shelter when the police pull up onto the adjacent grass, leap from their vehicle and shoot at him. The police allege that within the 2 seconds between opening the door of the vehicle and shooting the boy that they commanded twice that he drop the weapon. However, there are no other people around, anywhere.

    Which begs the obvious question of whether the selected actions by the police were the only, or the safest and wisest ones available. It also begs the question of whether the kid even understood what they were yelling at him (presuming that they DID give the commands that they claim to have given) to do, or that "drop the weapon" meant for him to put his toy on the ground.

    Following the shooting, at which point it must have been painfully obvious to the officers that they had just shot a child with a toy, there is no attempt to give any aid or assistance to the wounded boy. Further, the boy's sister, hearing the shots, approaches, very upset at seeing her brother on the ground bleeding and she is also put down on the ground by the police, and then handcuffed and placed into the back of the police cruiser.

    The officer who did the shooting was a reject from one of the suburban police forces, where he was turned down due to psychological issues and unreliable behaviors surrounding the use of his firearm.

  4. #4
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    wow, City of Cleveland... the implications this will send... the precedent it will set. smh...
    "A word after a word after a word is power."
    ~Margaret Atwood~

  5. #5
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
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    Here is the City of Clevland's legal response:

    Page 38 (reproduced below from original):


    AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES

    213. Plaintiffs’ Amended Complaint fails to state a claim upon which may be granted against this Defendant.

    214. Some or all of the Plaintiffs lack standing to bring this cause of action.

    215. Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly and proximately caused by the failure of Plaintiffs’ decedent to exercise due care to avoid injury.

    216. Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly and proximately caused by the acts of Plaintiffs’ decedent, not this Defendant.

    217. Plaintiffs’ injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly and proximately caused by their own acts, not this Defendant.

    218. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by the legal doctrines of comparative and contributory negligence.

    219. Plaintiffs’ claims are barred by the legal doctrine of assumption of risk.

    220. The intervening acts, including negligence, of persons other than this Defendant directly and proximately caused Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages.

    221. Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages complained of were directly and proximately caused by the conduct of individuals or entities other than Defendant.


    Full PDF



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  6. #6
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    I believe that I heard on the radio today that the City (presumably someone NOT a part of the legal defense team) was apologizing for the insensitivity of the City's response.

    Governor Kasich has taken this one on personally--creating a task force to look into racial insensitivity and other issues within police forces across the state. So clearly there are going to be multiple pressures on this one. This is currently one case of several in Ohio, and one of multiple instances for Cleveland. And Cleveland PD already has a black eye following a federal investigation of the mishandling of what resulted in a massive overuse of force.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margo/Mom View Post
    There is video footage that shows Tamir playing by himself in a picnic shelter when the police pull up onto the adjacent grass, leap from their vehicle and shoot at him. The police allege that within the 2 seconds between opening the door of the vehicle and shooting the boy that they commanded twice that he drop the weapon. However, there are no other people around, anywhere.

    Which begs the obvious question of whether the selected actions by the police were the only, or the safest and wisest ones available. It also begs the question of whether the kid even understood what they were yelling at him (presuming that they DID give the commands that they claim to have given) to do, or that "drop the weapon" meant for him to put his toy on the ground.

    Following the shooting, at which point it must have been painfully obvious to the officers that they had just shot a child with a toy, there is no attempt to give any aid or assistance to the wounded boy. Further, the boy's sister, hearing the shots, approaches, very upset at seeing her brother on the ground bleeding and she is also put down on the ground by the police, and then handcuffed and placed into the back of the police cruiser.

    The officer who did the shooting was a reject from one of the suburban police forces, where he was turned down due to psychological issues and unreliable behaviors surrounding the use of his firearm.
    I really don't see how this is going to end well for anyone. They see a teen holding a gun. Are they to assume it is a toy? Or are they to assume danger and protect themselves and potentially others?

    I just don't understand why the boy does not drop the gun when he first sees police? I don't know. I am standing by the cops on this one so far. I have to see more, but at this point, all they know is the boy has a gun.
    IMO
    Atticus Finch: “You never really understand a person . . . until you consider things from his point of view.” To Kill A Mockingbird

    All my posts are my opinion only.

  8. #8
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    It takes a lot for me to feel a LE shooting wasn't justified. Seeing the video of that cop jump out of the car and start shooting was horrible! As for why the teen didn't drop the gun, I doubt it even occurred to him. To him it was a toy. Even IF the cop did yell for him to put it down I'm not sure there was enough time for the command to register, and him to drop it before he was shot. Sorry, this one just really, really shook me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    I really don't see how this is going to end well for anyone. They see a teen holding a gun. Are they to assume it is a toy? Or are they to assume danger and protect themselves and potentially others?

    I just don't understand why the boy does not drop the gun when he first sees police? I don't know. I am standing by the cops on this one so far. I have to see more, but at this point, all they know is the boy has a gun.
    IMO
    Driving up within feet of the boy and jumping out of the cruiser are not exactly the best means by which the cops might have protected themselves, IMO.

    Watching the video, there are no other people anywhere around, no imminent danger. There were multiple options available to the cops in that cruiser to approach with greater caution, allowing time for the child to comprehend and follow through on what it was that they wanted him to do--without placing themselves, or the public, in danger.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    I really don't see how this is going to end well for anyone. They see a teen holding a gun. Are they to assume it is a toy? Or are they to assume danger and protect themselves and potentially others?

    I just don't understand why the boy does not drop the gun when he first sees police? I don't know. I am standing by the cops on this one so far. I have to see more, but at this point, all they know is the boy has a gun.
    IMO
    2 seconds from command to 'drop your weapon' is scant time to obey. The kid may not have thought his toy was a weapon, they must be yelling at someone else. He was old enough to realize that his bb gun could have looked like a real gun, so part of it's on him, but the cops are just too eager to open fire IMO. I'm not sure he was given a chance to obey. Give the command so you'll be covered in court and shoot before the command can be obeyed. There is something very wrong with LE these days when the populace is more afraid of LE than they are the criminal element. IMO.


  11. #11
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    This is an excellent article.

    http://sillysheeple.com/blog-archive...-holding-spoon

    TEXARKANA, TX- On Tuesday, a Texas police officer in Texarkana shot and killed Dennis Grigsby, a 35 year old man holding a spoon. Officer Brent Lawing was responding to a burglary call and found Grigsby in a “dimly lit” garage. He lived in his mother’s home across the street.


    Grigsby’s mother, Evelyn Grigsby, said he had a mentall illness, though it has not yet been specified what it was. Police say her son was holding a “7-inch metal object that looked like a knife” and began “aggressively” approaching the officer. According to the police story, he ignored commands to stop, prompting the officer to shoot him. Grigsby later died at the hospital.

    This police narrative follows one that is all too common: no matter the situation, police claim that they were forced to attack suspects. They promote the idea that if a suspect was doing something illegal, they deserved whatever the officer did to them. Officers claim their lives were threatened, people were acting dangerously, and that because of this, they bear no responsibility for the deaths of the people with whom they interact.

    Never mind that the Texas officer could have used other, less lethal methods to stop Grigsby’s advances or that even in a “dimly lit” room, the round edge of a spoon looks nothing like a pointed knife. At the very least, police departments should employ officers with decent vision. At most, they should fire those who jump to use lethal violence when it is entirely unnecessary.

    In November, a Florida cop killed a man whose mother called the police to help him take his medication. In Cleveland, police slammed a bi-polar woman’s head against cement, killing her for “disturbing the peace.” A group of Michigan cops opened fire on a mentally ill homeless man, executing him firing squad-style. The case of schizophrenic homeless man Kelly Thomas, who was beaten to death by multiple cops, is infamous for the jury’s refusal to convict the officers. They were caught on video bludgeoning the man, who was crying for his father.

    A Colorado man was arrested for pointing a banana at police, who claimed they thought he was pointing a gun. Lucky he wasn't shot. Cops are notorious for shooting when people they stop reach to their pockets for their wallets. John Crawford and Tamir Rice were both killed for holding toy guns.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
    We'vealso discussed the rock thrower who was shot and killed by LE, and it occured to me that there is an old school way to handle some of this. It's called a net. Sometimes the easiest way to subdue someone or an animal is to net him. Just saying.

  12. #12
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    B.C. cop shoots and kills mentally ill man while he crawls.


    The new video, captured by Andreas Bergen, a tourist from Winnipeg, who was visiting Vancouver with friends, begins with the seventh bullet being fired into Boyd's body, CTV reports.
    The 39-year-old, who had a successful career as an animator, also had bipolar disorder and had not taken his medication that day.
    Police had been called to the busy intersection the evening of Aug. 13, 2007, after a 911 call and were confronted by Boyd, who witnesses said was swinging a bike chain.
    Boyd appears to drop his weapon and begins making guttural sounds. He then starts crawling on all fours towards a group of constables until a stopped car obscures the view.
    Const. Lee Chipperfield, who was the only officer to shoot at him — the fatal bullet striking Boyd in the head — was neither charged nor disciplined after the shooting in August 2007.
    Chipperfield, who shot Boyd eight times in a span of 80 seconds, testified at a coroner's inquest that he believed Boyd was still armed.

    Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz3TLUfE2MC

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettScarpetta View Post
    I really don't see how this is going to end well for anyone. They see a teen holding a gun. Are they to assume it is a toy? Or are they to assume danger and protect themselves and potentially others?

    I just don't understand why the boy does not drop the gun when he first sees police? I don't know. I am standing by the cops on this one so far. I have to see more, but at this point, all they know is the boy has a gun.
    IMO
    I agree. They were also responding to a 911 report from a concerned citizen. He had a gun, was the size of an adult and may have been threatening people with it or waving it around as a gang wannabe. He was too old to be "playing" with a gun. Especially in an area riddled with gang violence.

    JMO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Margo/Mom View Post
    I believe that I heard on the radio today that the City (presumably someone NOT a part of the legal defense team) was apologizing for the insensitivity of the City's response.

    Governor Kasich has taken this one on personally--creating a task force to look into racial insensitivity and other issues within police forces across the state. So clearly there are going to be multiple pressures on this one. This is currently one case of several in Ohio, and one of multiple instances for Cleveland. And Cleveland PD already has a black eye following a federal investigation of the mishandling of what resulted in a massive overuse of force.
    John Kasich doesn't inspire any confidence in this situation. He and his attorney general were involved in the cover up of law enforcement officers shooting of an innocent, unarmed man in Walmart in Beavercreek, OH. In that case police forced the man to the floor and shot him in the head, point blank.

    I dont trust Kasich to protect the rights of any shooting victims.
    All statements are my opinion only.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty P View Post
    John Kasich doesn't inspire any confidence in this situation. He and his attorney general were involved in the cover up of law enforcement officers shooting of an innocent, unarmed man in Walmart in Beavercreek, OH. In that case police forced the man to the floor and shot him in the head, point blank.

    I dont trust Kasich to protect the rights of any shooting victims.
    Ummm, yeah. But the man has aspirations. And Repubs are beginning to realize that they cannot be the party of old white men and win elections. So what's it to him if the CPD has to run their folks through sensitivity training (perhaps with state funding)? It's all about appearances.

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