731 users online (88 members and 643 guests)  


Websleuths News


Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    21,754

    Complaint being filed after vet, service dog told to leave hotel.

    This infuriates me! My son served in the Marines! This is NOT how we are supposed to treat our Veterans!

    http://www.nbc-2.com/story/28255782/...l#.VPcccfnF8R5
    Media thread for Abby and Libby.


    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...5#post13163455

    WebSleuths Lingo thread.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...bsleuths-Lingo

    Unless I provide a link, every one of my posts are to be considered rumor, Speculation, or simply MY OWN OPINION.

    We are the watchers. We are witnesses. We see what has gone before. We see what happens now, at this dangerous moment in human history. We see what's going to happen - what will surely happen - unless we come together: we - the Peoples of all Nations - to restore peace and harmony and balance to the Earth, our Mother.


    THE IGNORE BUTTON IS YOUR FRIEND!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Detroit Metro
    Posts
    1,670
    While I can appreciate that possibly going back, pushing the manager and kicking the monitor is wrong, the man has a traumatic brain injury and I really feel arresting him was too much, especially because the hotel was violating a federal law in not allowing the service dog in the hotel.

    It amazes me that people still don't know that service dogs are allowed everywhere and you can't do this to people!
    All posts from me are MY OPINION ONLY

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    90
    There are too many people passing off untrained pets as service dogs. Both sides reacted incorrectly. The hotel has probably been hit by fake service dogs before, so they are Leary of all dogs- real and fake. And while I understand that a tbi affects judgement, it doesn't give somebody a free pass to destroy things or hurt people.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Detroit Metro
    Posts
    1,670
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    There are too many people passing off untrained pets as service dogs. Both sides reacted incorrectly. The hotel has probably been hit by fake service dogs before, so they are Leary of all dogs- real and fake. And while I understand that a tbi affects judgement, it doesn't give somebody a free pass to destroy things or hurt people.
    Per the Americans with Disabilities Act, BBM:

    In situations where it is not apparent that the dog is a service animal, a business may ask only two questions: 1) is the animal required because of a disability; and 2) what work or task has the animal been trained to perform? No other inquiries about an individual's disability or the dog are permitted. Businesses cannot require proof of certification or medical documentation as a condition for entry.
    All posts from me are MY OPINION ONLY

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    There are too many people passing off untrained pets as service dogs. Both sides reacted incorrectly. The hotel has probably been hit by fake service dogs before, so they are Leary of all dogs- real and fake. And while I understand that a tbi affects judgement, it doesn't give somebody a free pass to destroy things or hurt people.
    I agree. My cousin decided over a year ago to get her dog trained to become a service dog. I have no idea how she did it because she has no disabilities. I believe she used her moms old age and arthritis as a disability. Thing is, they live in different states. This bothers me immensely because I know how wonderful these dogs are and what a great help they can be. She is on the road so much and didn't want to leave the dog at home. She wanted to be able to bring the dog in the stores with her. People who lie and abuse the system make it difficult for everyone else. With that said, no one would know she is lying because she has the papers to prove it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,574
    That is a terrible abuse of a great law and program, hockeymom. But i really think that sort of abuse is rare. The reality is that there are just a lot more service animals these days as they are being trained to assist in a lot more areas than just the old seeing-eye dogs that we were used to. And as the numbers increase, obviously the number of incidents and conflicts will increase. Sometimes people can just be jerks, and that applies to business owners that don't want the animals there and to the owners of the animals that don't handle situations very well.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by michmi View Post
    Per the Americans with Disabilities Act, BBM:

    In situations where it is not apparent that the dog is a service animal, a business may ask only two questions: 1) is the animal required because of a disability; and 2) what work or task has the animal been trained to perform? No other inquiries about an individual's disability or the dog are permitted. Businesses cannot require proof of certification or medical documentation as a condition for entry.
    Exactly. That's why they distrust the real service dogs after dealing with pets or ESAs that are poorly trained and groomed and growl, or urinate on things. I know waiters who have had the so called service animals bite them. The people passing off their untrained animals as service animals really hurt those with real service dogs.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    90
    I've seen people brag about lying about their dogs being a service animal. Maybe it is regional, but I've seen situations where the dog was in no way a service animal being passed off as one. (A sick, coughing, shaking dog in a tote bag(not a carrier, a dirty tote bag), a dog pulling and straining at it's leash to chase anything that walked by. (A dog trainer friend was also bothered by that one). And many, many ESAs being passed off as service dogs.

    I'm severely allergic and generally have to leave if a dog is around. I don't mind if it is a real service dog and usually handlers will work out something, but with others, I've had to run when they pick up their dog and tell me it would be s hypoallergenic and try to put it near my face.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,574
    Wolfie, I have seen a few service animals that I was pretty skeptical about as well. But I also know a deaf woman that has a hearing dog and she always get grief from store/restaurant managers. I wonder if the ADA could be amended to allow a business owner to request to see certification of the animal. As an attorney I have been asked by clients several times about people with service animals. My advice is always to let them in and never challenge unless there are some extreme circumstances, like the animal is aggressive (which would almost never happen with a real, professionally trained service animal). As with most things, the majority of people are reasonable and well meaning, but its the few jerks in the world that make it difficult for everyone.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9,530
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    There are too many people passing off untrained pets as service dogs. Both sides reacted incorrectly. The hotel has probably been hit by fake service dogs before, so they are Leary of all dogs- real and fake. And while I understand that a tbi affects judgement, it doesn't give somebody a free pass to destroy things or hurt people.
    He did have documentation it was a service dog. There is no excuse for the hotel's reaction, which was illegal. I have no doubt the charges will be dropped because a prosecutor IS going to show compassion for a disabled Veteran. At a minimum, the hotel should be offering to pay for the dog's kibble for the rest of his life.

    JMO


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    90
    Currently the documentation available doesn't mean anything. People buy fake documents online. http://servicedogcentral.org/content...og-credentials

    I think that there is going to have to be some sort of national certification system. In the long run it would be less invasive because nobody would need to be questioned after the initial registration and would only need to flash a tag or some other ID.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,317
    These days most things can be faked, so just saying your pet is a service animal doesn't cut it. I am truly sorry to say that. Service animals are used by many people who are not veterans too. I don't know what the answer is.

    Even if a hotel accepts pets, many owners will not advise the front desk upon check-in. Why? Usually there are certain rooms used only for guests with pets. This way all rooms are not subjected to the smell of animals for people with allergies and the chance of fleas. So pet owners don't want "these" rooms. If a hotel is following the rules, they will need to do a deep clean when the guest checks out of a room that is a non-pet room. This is very time consuming, throws the schedules of the house keepers off, and costs money.

    Now if the hotel does not accept pets, with the exception of service animals, the guest will automatically be charged a fee on his credit card - if it is discovered a pet is in the room or even evidence when the housekeeper goes in after the guest checks out. Remember those cameras in the hall, they are proof that an animal was in that room.

    This particular veteran may have been faced one time too many with hotels that did not accept pets and he was not in the mood to face or answer any questions. Who knows! Glad to hear he was legitimate with his dog.

    ETA: Just checked online and this hotel does not accept pets. So it may be that my last paragraph was part of his attitude on checking in.
    Last edited by 1&2&3; 03-04-2015 at 10:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,151
    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieWind View Post
    Wolfie, I have seen a few service animals that I was pretty skeptical about as well. But I also know a deaf woman that has a hearing dog and she always get grief from store/restaurant managers. I wonder if the ADA could be amended to allow a business owner to request to see certification of the animal. As an attorney I have been asked by clients several times about people with service animals. My advice is always to let them in and never challenge unless there are some extreme circumstances, like the animal is aggressive (which would almost never happen with a real, professionally trained service animal). As with most things, the majority of people are reasonable and well meaning, but its the few jerks in the world that make it difficult for everyone.

    This was an unfortunate incident all the way around.


    I can see both sides of this issue, however the ADA was written to specifically NOT require proof of any kind of certification for a variety of reasons, one of which was to attempt to protect the privacy of the disabled person's health status.

    The other reason was this, when certification is required, there needs to be someone that decides which dogs are able to be certified. Who decides that criteria? The danger here is that when someone is in charge of deciding just what dog is certifiable and which is not, soon there is room for EXCLUSION.

    This is already out there, there are people in the industry who strongly claim that only their dogs and that breed should be allowed to be service dogs. They are breeding their own dogs, promoting their own personal gains. This is a recipe for disaster.

    Sadly though, the more people that have fake service dogs, and the more people that have poorly trained or poorly controlled service dogs, this will change. They are ruining it for everyone.

    The way the ADA is written is clear and my advice to anyone who sees a service dog in public is this, the behavior of the dog team will tell you the truth. True service dog teams don't spend 'hours' training. They spend months going in to years and then it's on going from there.


    As was mentioned up thread, the business owner, (not the general public) can legally ask the two questions. Beyond that, if the dog is out of control and the disabled person is either unable to control the dog or unwilling, then, yes they can legally be asked to leave.

    Here's a photo of a good friend of mine and in the background you can see her service dog. So far? FOUR solid years of training. But in her case it's worth it, because the dog has changed her life and allowed her to lead a life she otherwise might not have. Hope this helps.

    Attachment 70603

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9,530
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    Currently the documentation available doesn't mean anything. People buy fake documents online. http://servicedogcentral.org/content...og-credentials

    I think that there is going to have to be some sort of national certification system. In the long run it would be less invasive because nobody would need to be questioned after the initial registration and would only need to flash a tag or some other ID.
    I think the problem isn't with the hospitality industry in need of more systems, it is with the hotel that denied service. My oldest son is general manager of a popular restaurant in Chicago. I asked him how this situation would be handled. His answer: the customer is always right and shouldn't be challenged unless the issue is about alcohol and age. If you deny service, you lose not only the customer but also their friends and family and worse, you could be in violation of the law. He said service dogs are no more disruptive than a purse on the floor next to the chair.

    JMO.



Similar Threads

  1. Harrassment complaint filed in Mississippi against CA
    By Gnatcatcher in forum Caylee Anthony 2 years old
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-30-2010, 12:35 AM
  2. WFTV - STRICKLAND filed complaint against Baez!
    By Muzikman in forum Caylee Anthony 2 years old
    Replies: 467
    Last Post: 03-22-2010, 02:12 AM
  3. Replies: 472
    Last Post: 01-22-2010, 08:04 PM