The Front Door!

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beesy

beesy

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I found it! I found it!
From "In Her Own Words"
"I ran to the front door to scream for my neighbor, Karen(she is a nurse), and I remember the bolt on the door not being turned and locked"

Of course, we've discussed the impossibility of Karen hearing her from across the street and down from the Routier's house. A simple "Karen" from the front door would in no way alert Karen. But that does solve the mystery of who SAYS they opened the front door first!
Source: MTJD, page, 4
 
Assuming Darlie's account is accurate, this opens the door :crazy: for the intruder's entry point.

See, all that buisness about the screen being cut with the bread knife so the intruder could get in goes right out the window :slap: with this story.
 
accordn2me said:
See, all that buisness about the screen being cut with the bread knife so the intruder could get in goes right out the window :slap: with this story.
Click to expand...
No pun intended right accordn2me?!?!?:doh: LOL

S
 
accordn2me said:
Assuming Darlie's account is accurate, this opens the door :crazy: for the intruder's entry point.

See, all that buisness about the screen being cut with the bread knife so the intruder could get in goes right out the window :slap: with this story.
Click to expand...
All I've said is an intruder did not cut the screen at all. I never said if it was used as an escape route or entry point because neither makes sense. My main point was that either Darlie or Darin cut the screen with the bread knife and returned it to the butcher block

The quote is from "In Her Own Words". I thought your question was always who SAYS they opened the door first. She SAYS she did. This version of her story is the first time she mentions the door being unlocked. It's not in trial testimony or any other interviews.
The screen was cut no matter if or how it was used. You can't deny that the screen was cut. I think her statement further debunks the intruder theory. Why would an intruder come in thru the unlocked front door, but then flee thru the garage, cut the screen and return the knife to the butcher's block? Or another scenario, he enters the unlocked front door, leaves it unlocked, gets the bread knife, cuts the screen in the garage, puts the knife back, then picks up the butcher knife, attacks the boys and Darlie and flees thru the garage where he has cut the screen for his get-away, even though the unlocked front door is a much easier and closer escape route. Sounds like a plan
 
You are right, beesy. The screen was cut and it makes no sense.

Once upon a time, there was a lot of speculation about who opened the door first, if it was locked, etc. I wish I could remember the details but my memory is one of the worst.

The curious thing to me about the door...there is no blood on the tumbler from what I understand. Out of habit, I always reach for the tumbler first. Not to say everyone does what I do, and I can never tell if mine is locked or unlocked because it is so small. But, I would think that no matter who opened the door first, someone's blood should be on the tumbler...Devin's if Darin opened it first...Darlie's if she did...unless they knew it was unlocked. Well, I guess if she was wetting towels by that time, it wouldn't be. But look at that utility room door! When Cron or Linch testified about it, they never said whose blood it was. Why wouldn't they point that out, or try to make Darlie explain it?
 
accordn2me said:
But, I would think that no matter who opened the door first, someone's blood should be on the tumbler...Devin's if Darin opened it first...Darlie's if she did...unless they knew it was unlocked. Well, I guess if she was wetting towels by that time, it wouldn't be. But look at that utility room door! When Cron or Linch testified about it, they never said whose blood it was. Why wouldn't they point that out, or try to make Darlie explain it?
Click to expand...
O, my gosh. You just stumbled onto something, A2M. I can't believe we missed it all thest months and years Mary, Dani, Cami, I hope you are reading here. If Darin was giving Devon CPR asnd getting blood all over his hands before police arrived, why on earth is none of Devon's blood in the foyer, on the door anywhere, or on the porch. Surely he touched something on his way out to the front yard that night. CJ came up with the no bloody footprints for Darin and we explained that via the carpet. He wouldn't have had to have blood on his feet, but he would have to have blood on his hands if he helped that boy BEFORE Waddell arrived. So where is the proof??????? Why didn't Darin leave behind any of Devon's blood?
 
Goody said:
Yes. It is the deadbolt.
Click to expand...
Thanks. It must be a regional term. I never heard of a tumbler except in a combination (like a safe) lock and it is plural in those, I think. Tumbler means drinking glass to me! But then a water fountain was a bubbler where I grew up, so what do I know? Tee Hee.
 
Another question I have is whose blood is this:

from Volume 5 D. Parks cross of Linch:

12 Q. Did you see any indication of anyone
13 having run through the house while they were bleeding?
14 A. The only drop that I saw with any
15 velocity, was on a wall heading toward the front door,
16 lower portion of the wall, to the right, as you are going
17 out the front door.
 
Cowgirl said:
Thanks. It must be a regional term. I never heard of a tumbler except in a combination (like a safe) lock and it is plural in those, I think. Tumbler means drinking glass to me! But then a water fountain was a bubbler where I grew up, so what do I know? Tee Hee.
Click to expand...
I don't know if it is said more in the south or not, but I would definitely say country people (rural America) probably say it a lot. Not sure why. I always thought it was the sound of the lock unbolting. Sort of has a tumbling sound, doesn't it?
 
accordn2me said:
Another question I have is whose blood is this:

from Volume 5 D. Parks cross of Linch:

12 Q. Did you see any indication of anyone
13 having run through the house while they were bleeding?
14 A. The only drop that I saw with any
15 velocity, was on a wall heading toward the front door,
16 lower portion of the wall, to the right, as you are going
17 out the front door.
Click to expand...
They couldn't test every single drop so they took a sampling. That drop didn't come into question, I suppose. Evidently it didn't make it into the sampling.
 
accordn2me said:
Another question I have is whose blood is this:

from Volume 5 D. Parks cross of Linch:

12 Q. Did you see any indication of anyone
13 having run through the house while they were bleeding?
14 A. The only drop that I saw with any
15 velocity, was on a wall heading toward the front door,
16 lower portion of the wall, to the right, as you are going
17 out the front door.
Click to expand...
Key(again with the pun) words there are "anyone having run through the house while they were bleeding?" Darin was not bleeding, so this statement doesn't show any proof that Darin had Devon's or anyone's blood on him. No handprints, no bloody smears, only velocity blood which indicates someone running. Darlie says she opened the door, and her statement has always been that she was running and bleeding. She was the only one running and bleeding, unless you're prepared to say that Damon was up running around. So we can assume by the accused's statements that the one drop of velocity blood near the door is Darlie's.
I don't know if she would have reached for the tumbler first, especially in a panic, grabbing the knob would be the quickest option, you'd cut out the time of testing the tumbler. Then if the knob wouldn't open, you'd unlock it. Would you, really in a panic, test the tumbler first or bypass that and go right for the knob? Unless this was a deadbolt which required a key to lock and unlock, reaching for the knob first makes more sense.
 
beesy said:
I don't know if she would have reached for the tumbler first, especially in a panic, grabbing the knob would be the quickest option, you'd cut out the time of testing the tumbler. Then if the knob wouldn't open, you'd unlock it. Would you, really in a panic, test the tumbler first or bypass that and go right for the knob? Unless this was a deadbolt which required a key to lock and unlock, reaching for the knob first makes more sense.
Click to expand...
If they weren't in the habit of locking up, that deadbolt was probably rarely ever locked anyway. They wouldn't be in the habit of reaching for it if they never used it. I suspect that was the case.
 
Is it possible one of the boys (obviously, the 2nd one Darlie went after) woke up while his brother was being stabbed, saw what was happening, and ran for the door, opened it, and tried to escape? If so, he would have had no blood on him at the time. Darlie could have caught him at the door and begun stabbing him, which could be, although doubtful, why the other boy was never stabbed sufficiently for him to die before Darin came downstairs (because Darlie was interrupted).
 
HeartofTexas said:
Is it possible one of the boys (obviously, the 2nd one Darlie went after) woke up while his brother was being stabbed, saw what was happening, and ran for the door, opened it, and tried to escape? If so, he would have had no blood on him at the time. Darlie could have caught him at the door and begun stabbing him, which could be, although doubtful, why the other boy was never stabbed sufficiently for him to die before Darin came downstairs (because Darlie was interrupted).
Click to expand...
The blood evidence shows that Devon never moved from his position on the floor. I think he tried to fight back by kicking, etc, but he never got up from that position. Damon was stabbed the first time as he slept on the floor near the foot of the couch that Darlie slept on. He later moved to the doorway or near the doorway of the kitchen/family room, where he was attacked a second time. There is no blood evidence to support that either of the boys were ever in the foyer and they definitely were not attacked there.

Technically I suppose it is possible that Damon ran to the door and tried to open it and was stopped, dragged back into the family room....(or even Devon. Before the murders, anything is possible) But bear in mind that the bloody fingerprint is on a glass tabletop that was located behind the couch, which was near to where Damon was attacked the second time. It is also possible that Darlie realized he had moved, that he was not dead, and that she then moved over the couch and braced her weight on that table, maybe with most of her hand wrapped in or holding something causing only her ring finger to leave that bloody, smudged fingerprint, then attacked him the second time where he laid until he bled out and died.

The blood evidence limits the actual stabbings to the family room in specific spots.
 
Interesting... and so sad to read, even after all these years. Where did you gain so much knowledge about the blood evidence... what documents (or book?)? Did you figure all of it out on your own, or did someone spell it out somewhere? Some of you have knowledge that is mind-boggling!
 
Goody said:
O, my gosh. You just stumbled onto something, A2M. I can't believe we missed it all thest months and years Mary, Dani, Cami, I hope you are reading here. If Darin was giving Devon CPR asnd getting blood all over his hands before police arrived, why on earth is none of Devon's blood in the foyer, on the door anywhere, or on the porch. Surely he touched something on his way out to the front yard that night. CJ came up with the no bloody footprints for Darin and we explained that via the carpet. He wouldn't have had to have blood on his feet, but he would have to have blood on his hands if he helped that boy BEFORE Waddell arrived. So where is the proof??????? Why didn't Darin leave behind any of Devon's blood?
Click to expand...

Do we know for sure that there was none of his blood in the foyer area? It wasn't all tested was it?

I wouldn't expect his hands to be running with blood but I would expect there to be some blood transfer. I remember a few years ago working through the likelyhood of him having gone upstairs like he claims after helping the boys and being extremely doubtful because there was no blood transfer from his feet (which OK- I can overlook that) but also no blood transfer on stair bannister or anywhere upstairs which I think would be highly unlikely if he had gone upstairs as he claimed.
 
Goody said:
I don't know if it is said more in the south or not, but I would definitely say country people (rural America) probably say it a lot.
Click to expand...
Not where I'm from! We leave the keys in the car and never lock any doors. It was a major adjustment for me when I moved to the city.

I first heard the term tumbler when I was picking out hardware while building my house. Growing up in the country - never using locks - I locked myself out several times when I first moved to the metropolis. :doh: I was so happy when they started making cars where you have to use the key to lock it. I told my contractor I had to have my house the same way - you have to use the key to lock it when leaving but not to get out because I'm scared of being locked in a fire. He told me I needed a deadbolt lock with a tumbler inside. I love it. Haven't locked myself out since and don't need keys to get outside.

When I come in, I automatically turn the tumbler to lock the door. It's purely habit now. I always reach for it first when going out. Having two kids that go in and out a lot would probably change that habit quickly. Like the Routier's I never use my alarm system any more.
 
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