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The Killing Season - Websleuths

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  1. #1
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    The Whittling Knife

    There were only two people that knew where the whittling knife was hidden in the cupboard: PR and LHP. LHP told PR she hid it there because Burk was making too much of a mess whittling about the house. If there was someone else who learned about the hidden knife, then that would intrigue me. Patsy could have told John. Linda could have told Mervyn.

    It just seems too much of a coincidence that an intruder with no knowledge of the hidden knife would just happen to come across it and use it to cut the cord or the tape.

    Why get a blanket out of the cupboard? Why use the whittling knife?

    I started the thread because I think it needs to be explored thoroughly. I'm relatively new, so pardon me if you have exhausted discussion on this before. It just might help me resolve once and for all who did this and what happened.

    Your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    If an intruder knew they would be away for at least a couple of hours, he would have plenty of time to poke around and stumble across the knife. I think he deliberately used as much as possible from the house. He may well have brought his own knife and then decided to use the one he found. If the Ramseys were staging a scene they wouldn't leave Burke's knife to be part of the crime scene.

    Nobody thought it a strange coincidence that the LaBiancas were murdered with one of their own knives and stabbed with their own serving fork.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert
    There were only two people that knew where the whittling knife was hidden in the cupboard: PR and LHP. LHP told PR she hid it there because Burk was making too much of a mess whittling about the house. If there was someone else who learned about the hidden knife, then that would intrigue me. Patsy could have told John. Linda could have told Mervyn.

    It just seems too much of a coincidence that an intruder with no knowledge of the hidden knife would just happen to come across it and use it to cut the cord or the tape.

    Why get a blanket out of the cupboard? Why use the whittling knife?

    I started the thread because I think it needs to be explored thoroughly. I'm relatively new, so pardon me if you have exhausted discussion on this before. It just might help me resolve once and for all who did this and what happened.

    Your thoughts?
    No this won't help you resolve anything once and for all. At least it shouldn't.

    This case is much to diverse to be settled over such a mundane detail.

    We don't even know the knife was used as part of the crime. It's only speculation.

  4. #4
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    This was not your typical kitchen knife where you expect to find one. It was in the cupboard hidden under a blanket. I find it hard to believe that someone would come across it. Again, why use the blankets? No comparison to Bianca.

    The whittling knife is no where near mundane. It somehow got from the 2nd Floor cupboard down to the basement next to the body. This happened during the crime. Either LHP, PR or someone who knew where the knife was hidden, put in the basement. Whoever moved the knife was the perp.

    If LHP did it, then that would seem consistent with the frameup hypothesis.
    If PR did it, then that would seem consistent with the staging hypothesis.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert
    This was not your typical kitchen knife where you expect to find one. It was in the cupboard hidden under a blanket. I find it hard to believe that someone would come across it. Again, why use the blankets? No comparison to Bianca.

    The whittling knife is no where near mundane. It somehow got from the 2nd Floor cupboard down to the basement next to the body. This happened during the crime. Either LHP, PR or someone who knew where the knife was hidden, put in the basement. Whoever moved the knife was the perp.

    If LHP did it, then that would seem consistent with the frameup hypothesis.
    If PR did it, then that would seem consistent with the staging hypothesis.
    Under a blanket? My recollection is it was just put in the cupboard.

    Added: PMPT pp. 235-6
    "After Thanksgiving I took that knife away from him and hid it in the cupboard just outside JonBenet's room. That's how the problem was solved." - LHP

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman
    No this won't help you resolve anything once and for all. At least it shouldn't.

    This case is much to diverse to be settled over such a mundane detail.

    We don't even know the knife was used as part of the crime. It's only speculation.
    I dont know why you use the word "settled", dont you mean solved?
    What was the knife doing there...if it hadnt been used in the crime....it had been hidden in a cupboard, only Patsy and LHP knew where it was.
    As for the Ramsey's staging the scene and wouldnt have left the knife there, well, they used their own note pad and pen for the ransom note, so why not leave Burke's knife lying around.
    Remembering its dark and the Ram's are panicked, they were bound to forget something.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    I dont know why you use the word "settled", dont you mean solved?
    What was the knife doing there...if it hadnt been used in the crime....it had been hidden in a cupboard, only Patsy and LHP knew where it was.
    As for the Ramsey's staging the scene and wouldnt have left the knife there, well, they used their own note pad and pen for the ransom note, so why not leave Burke's knife lying around.
    Remembering its dark and the Ram's are panicked, they were bound to forget something.
    You've got quite an imagination, but you're way off. The ransom note was coldly and calmly written (opposite of panicked).

  8. #8
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    Burke's red penknife, a Swiss Army brand with a broken emblem on the side of it, could have been found in the cupboard by Burke long before Christmas -- perhaps even weeks before. Burke would have searched for the knife, knowing it was hidden somewhere in the house, and may have found it.

    The knife was found by the cops lying openly on a shelf near the wine cellar. It's use in the crime is questionable. A knife isn't needed to cut duct tape; it tears by hand. It could have been used to cut the cord.

    Of perhaps even more interest was the kitchen knife found by the cops on the counter just outside of JonBenet's bedroom on the second floor. Patsy admitted it was unusual for the knife to be there.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Burke's red penknife, a Swiss Army brand with a broken emblem on the side of it, could have been found in the cupboard by Burke long before Christmas -- perhaps even weeks before. Burke would have searched for the knife, knowing it was hidden somewhere in the house, and may have found it.
    you took the words right out of my mouth! i was even thinking PR might have returned the knife to BR prior to xmas. it was LHP who felt the need to hide it, and maybe PR thought that was unnecessary, although i guess she might have mentioned that in her interviews? but then again, what if she had knowingly returned the knife to burke days earlier and it appeared near the crime scene. if you are a BDI enthusiast, perhaps she kept quiet for a reason?

  10. #10
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    From Rocky Mounrtain News April 1999:
    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...802rams1.shtml
    "Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke's knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the small basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

    Hoffmann's-Pugh's question: How did the knife get there?

    "That showed up where JonBenet was," said Hoffmann-Pugh. "I would stake my life that an intruder wouldn't know to get that out of the cupboard. Someone took that knife out of the cupboard where I put it."

    John and Patsy Ramsey are suspects in their daughter's murder, which is under investigation by a Boulder County grand jury. They deny any criminal involvement. Burke, now 12, has been cleared.

    Hoffmann-Pugh said she didn't tell JonBenet's parents where she stowed Burke's knife.

    Hoffmann-Pugh has appeared before the grand jury but would not discuss her testimony. She has, however, been interviewed by authorities, and she said she told them her concerns about the knife.

    Police have not disclosed whether they believe Burke's knife was used in the crime.

    But while the black duct tape that John Ramsey said he pulled from JonBenet's mouth showed signs of having been torn from a roll, rather than cut, the lengths of nylon cord used in the garrote and around the child's wrists would have to have been sliced into sections by a sharp instrument."

    I bet the cord was cut by the knife. The perp brought the knife down to the basement. So, LHP did not tell PR where she hid the knife. Somebody found it looking in the cupboards. Why was the perp looking in the cupboards?
    I'm beginning to believe LHP.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rupert
    From Rocky Mounrtain News April 1999:
    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...802rams1.shtml
    "Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke's knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the small basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

    Hoffmann's-Pugh's question: How did the knife get there?

    "That showed up where JonBenet was," said Hoffmann-Pugh. "I would stake my life that an intruder wouldn't know to get that out of the cupboard. Someone took that knife out of the cupboard where I put it."

    John and Patsy Ramsey are suspects in their daughter's murder, which is under investigation by a Boulder County grand jury. They deny any criminal involvement. Burke, now 12, has been cleared.

    Hoffmann-Pugh said she didn't tell JonBenet's parents where she stowed Burke's knife.

    Hoffmann-Pugh has appeared before the grand jury but would not discuss her testimony. She has, however, been interviewed by authorities, and she said she told them her concerns about the knife.

    Police have not disclosed whether they believe Burke's knife was used in the crime.

    But while the black duct tape that John Ramsey said he pulled from JonBenet's mouth showed signs of having been torn from a roll, rather than cut, the lengths of nylon cord used in the garrote and around the child's wrists would have to have been sliced into sections by a sharp instrument."

    I bet the cord was cut by the knife. The perp brought the knife down to the basement. So, LHP did not tell PR where she hid the knife. Somebody found it looking in the cupboards. Why was the perp looking in the cupboards?
    I'm beginning to believe LHP.
    For a bowl to put pineapple in?

  12. #12

    No bowl ZMan

    John told detectives that food was never prepared upstairs. He identified the knife on the second floor as a paring knife.

    Either the paring knife or Burke's swiss army knife was used to cut the cord. Both knives were on the second floor at one time.

    Perhaps the paring knife was initially used to cut the cord, and when it didn't cut it, the swiss army knife was used. The cord was cut on JonBenet's bed because cord fibers were found on her bed.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  13. #13

    Burke

    I posted this on another thread but I think it is relevant to this thread...

    From Steve Thomas book page 109:

    Burke: I asked my dad, Where did you find her body? He said, in the basement.

    "I think someone took her down in the basement...took a knife out (losing words, he made a slashing gesture) or hit her on the head.

    "...TOOK A KNIFE OUT"
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  14. #14
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    Burke's Knife

    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec
    From Steve Thomas book page 109:

    Burke: I asked my dad, Where did you find her body? He said, in the basement.

    "I think someone took her down in the basement...took a knife out (losing words, he made a slashing gesture) or hit her on the head.

    "...TOOK A KNIFE OUT"
    Indeed that would seem relevant. How would BR know that a knife was taken out? Was it discussed within the family?

    What I've noticed in discussions about this red swiss army knife is that it seems to have been discounted alot by followers of IDI. Okay, it was not found next to JonBenet and LHP might have not noticed it in the basement before, but LHP was suspicious that it suddenly showed up in the basement. LHP emhasized this for one reason or another: either because of honest suspicion or a frame-up. We don't hear much of any discussion much by PR or JR on this red swiss army knife, so I begin to wonder why. LHP is certainly not afraid to discuss it. Now I hear about the quote above by BR and wonder if it was a slip up.

  15. #15
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    This is the one peice of evidence that I keep coming back too....It just seems out of place, what is the knife doing down there?? Does anyone know if it was dusted for fingerprints and whose were found?


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