1017 users online (128 members and 889 guests)  


The Killing Season - Websleuths

Websleuths News


Page 1 of 79 1 2 3 11 51 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 1171
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,764

    Related Issues and Food for Thought

    .

    The huge majority of posts under The Timothy Bosma Murder Threads have been:
    -- On Topic
    -- Very informative
    -- Very insightful
    -- Thought provoking and valuable

    Thank You

    .................................................. .......

    From time to time alternate views and off-topic conversations creep into the discussions so here is a place for them

    Sort of a Scrap Yard (Scrap Book) for alternate views and unusual theories

    It appears we may have to wait for almost a year for the trials to begin and the facts to emerge so here is a place to vent frustrations or praise or voice controversial opinions

    ..

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Carli View Post
    Interesting article. What do other posters think? Is solitary confinement an acceptable way of containing those serving time? What about solitary confinement for those accused of crimes but not yet tried as in the TB case and several more. As we know, solitary confinement has been rejected as torture by most nations of the UN. Do we care? Do we fully accept torture nowadays? What is the purpose of solitary confinement anyway? In the TB case we have at least one individual in solitary confinement for nearly two years. Statistically he's probably mad as a hatter by now. Is that ok? Is it ok to torture people to the point of madness and beyond so long as they are guilty? Is it ok to torture people if they are not guilty? In Canada we have tortured mentally ill persons to death by holding them in solitary confinement and not interfering while, in at least one case, a suicide was carried out. Is that ok? What does our nation find so important about our right to torture that we can't sign on to a UN initiative to limit the practice ? Let's be candid. Let's be honest. At some fundamental level, do we actually like / enjoy torturing people whether personally or by proxy?

    http://solitaryconfinement.org/uploa...ureAug2011.pdf

    https://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=40097

    http://antitorture.org/new-solitary-confinement/
    Hi Carli ... I carried your post over from the other thread

    I do agree with you , Solitary confinement has its own set of cruelties , whether the person is innocent or guilty is beside the point , it is inhumane to sequester someone for 23 hours a day , it is a form of mental cruelty and almost torture.

    I do not say that as a bleeding heart , I have very little sympathy for the imprisoned , but it comes from reading many biographies of prisoners held under such conditions , whether innocent or guilty or prisoners of war or whatever.

    The ones that survive describe it as a day-to-day struggle to keep from going completely crazy

    But I dont know what the alternative would be , our prison system is already too expensive , and we dont want to pamper them , and in many cases they MUST be kept away from the general population , because inside most prisons it is run by gangs and cliques , not guards.
    Last edited by Arnie M; 03-17-2015 at 08:00 AM. Reason: sp

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Who Dat Nation
    Posts
    29,858
    Arnie, I've changed the title to the thread. We had an "alternative theory" thread, and it didn't go over well. This thread can be used to discuss "spin off" topics, general issues not specific to the Bosma/Babcock/Millard murders. We'll give it a try for now, anyway.
    __________________________________
    Muddy water in the street
    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"

    WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Land of the living
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie M View Post
    Hi Carli ... I carried your post over from the other thread

    I do agree with you , Solitary confinement has its own set of cruelties , whether the person is innocent or guilty is beside the point , it is inhumane to sequester someone for 23 hours a day , it is a form of mental cruelty and almost torture.

    I do not say that as a bleeding heart , I have very little sympathy for the imprisoned , but it comes from reading many biographies of prisoners held under such conditions , whether innocent or guilty or prisoners of war or whatever.

    The ones that survive describe it as a day-to-day struggle to keep from going completely crazy

    But I dont know what the alternative would be , our prison system is already too expensive , and we dont want to pamper them , and in many cases they MUST be kept away from the general population , because inside most prisons it is run by gangs and cliques , not guards.
    Totally agree Arnie- but the question is "what is the alternative?" Which is crueler? Being protected even if it means being locked up for 23 hours a day or living in fear and/or being beat up or killed in GP? MOO

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSherlock View Post
    Totally agree Arnie- but the question is "what is the alternative?" Which is crueler? Being protected even if it means being locked up for 23 hours a day or living in fear and/or being beat up or killed in GP? MOO
    Being as people with charges are presumed innocent I think that instead of sending money overseas to enable certain places to buy weaponry it would make sense to put more money into providing a suitable holding place for people on charges. One toilet for up to a dozen people housed in one room is crazy. Less than 6 showers for 50 or more people is not realistic. Sunlight is essential for a healthy life, would it take much money to have doors to individual areas for sitting outside when constructing jails? Most people in jail these days are not in jail for violent crime, but still they are held in conditions that we wouldn't want to put animals in. It is a myth to say that jails are like hotels and anyone believing that should stick to believing in fairy tales IMO.

    I agree that staying in solitary is better than being beaten or killed, but if solitary brings its own consequences then maybe we should be looking at solutions to the problems. Guards are often part of the problem. You have guards bringing in contraband and other guards who are violent themselves. The psychological requirement for jail guards these days does not include compassion or empathy. They are hiring people devoid of these traits IMO, and I base my opinion on having viewed the form that gets filled out and the witnessing someone undergo the process and screening. They didn't get the job because they cared too much about people apparently. Speaks volumes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamarind View Post
    Being as people with charges are presumed innocent I think that instead of sending money overseas to enable certain places to buy weaponry it would make sense to put more money into providing a suitable holding place for people on charges. One toilet for up to a dozen people housed in one room is crazy. Less than 6 showers for 50 or more people is not realistic. Sunlight is essential for a healthy life, would it take much money to have doors to individual areas for sitting outside when constructing jails? Most people in jail these days are not in jail for violent crime, but still they are held in conditions that we wouldn't want to put animals in. It is a myth to say that jails are like hotels and anyone believing that should stick to believing in fairy tales IMO.

    I agree that staying in solitary is better than being beaten or killed, but if solitary brings its own consequences then maybe we should be looking at solutions to the problems. Guards are often part of the problem. You have guards bringing in contraband and other guards who are violent themselves. The psychological requirement for jail guards these days does not include compassion or empathy. They are hiring people devoid of these traits IMO, and I base my opinion on having viewed the form that gets filled out and the witnessing someone undergo the process and screening. They didn't get the job because they cared too much about people apparently. Speaks volumes.
    They are looking a new options for reducing the reliance on solitary confinement. The goal for the development of those new options is June 2015. I'm interested to see what they come up with.

    The country’s top prison official says Canada is working on a “new model” for solitary confinement, in the wake of criticisms over the government’s handling of mentally ill inmates such as Ashley Smith.

    Don Head, commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada, said the prison service plans to present a report to Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney outlining revised options for segregation in the coming months.

    “We’re looking at a new model for segregation within CSC,” Head said in a brief interview Tuesday.
    Still, the CSC refused to end indefinite solitary confinement because it would cause “undue risk to the safe management of the federal correctional system.” The government committed instead to reducing its reliance on long-term segregation by developing new options by June 2015.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/1795854/ca...ison-official/
    The truth does not cease to exist because it is ignored. ~ Aldous Huxley

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Carli View Post
    For the record, apparently it's a mistake to confuse much more closely monitored and controlled conditions at federal prisons with the reportedly far rougher and looser conditions at remand centres. The former houses criminals who have been found guilty by the courts and are serving sentences. The latter run the gamut of offences from traffic violations to "fail to appear" to murder. There are far more arrestees biding their time in local jails/remand centres in Canada than there are in federal facilities - note that it is the latter venue that receives the lion's share of attention when it comes to criticism and occasional public concern, while the remand centres generally slip under the net. According to StatsCan, the average length of time an arrestee spends in remand is about one to three months - not years as in DM and MS's cases. They are definitely senior citizens in their respective jails by now. The implication IMO is that prosecutors need not take longer than a few weeks to come up with evidence sufficient to take a case to trial although evidence fishing expeditions for a couple of years may not be unusual in murder cases. I don't know for sure.

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../11440-eng.htm

    It's of passing interest to learn that the Barton Street Jail guards like DM. Barton Street Jail, as we know, has well earned a reputation as being one of the most violent remand centres in the province and in the nation. Depending on the cause/source of the violence it may, or may not be a good idea to have the guards on side, IMO. IMHO.

    http://www.900chml.com/2014/04/08/14445/

    I happen to have a distant relative several times removed who is a proud "Correctional Officer" assigned to a remand centre. He wears a special uniform and everything. He has a grade 8 education and achieving that grade 8 certificate was a challenge. He is very brave. He's a naturally big, bulky, strong guy. He is proud of his job which he has held for nearly 3 decades. I think that several years ago he did take a basic first aid course but I know for sure that he doesn't know what a defibrillator is because I asked him how to change the battery in our machine and he had no idea what this essential life-saving equipment is used for or its simple operating procedure. He does not consider first aid (or last aid) as part of his responsibility. After all these years he now earns about $26.00 an hour. He has 7 children and 18 grandchildren. He knows, with unwavering certainty, that everyone in a jail cell is guilty of something. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. God has chosen to punish each one for some very good reason.

    So, there's the bar that must be met. If any posters would like to join the ranks it turns out there are 80 positions currently up for grabs in Ontario. Successful candidates may get to befriend DM, too, or other so-called "high profile" inmates. (Yes, I said 80.)

    https://www.gojobs.gov.on.ca/Preview.aspx?JobID=76313
    Moving this over here as it seems more suited to this topic.

    I have to disagree that it is the federal that receives the criticism and concern. I rarely hear about the federal system. It is the detention/remand centres where we are always hearing about murders, assaults, suicides, over-crowding, lock-downs. The Stats Can figures can be a little deceiving because of the number of people with minor charges that are there for short periods. However, all those awaiting trial are held in the detention centres until after their trial, so anyone charged with murder in Ontario is spending on average 3 years there just waiting to go to trial. Though I do agree that it should never take 3 years to take a case to trial. They need to find a way to stop the "bog down" in the court system.

    It's about time they started hiring and we can only hope they hire for other area jails as well. I noticed those jobs are temporary contract positions with no guarantee of hours. Being short staffed is one of the things that contributes to the problems in the centres. When not enough staff is on hand, prisoners are put on lock-down which only increases the violence and frustration.

    Over the past several weeks, inmates have been locked in their cells for long stretches, sometimes for entire weekends, because guards have been on vacation, or called in sick.
    That's led to increasing assaults among frustrated inmates, guards and inmates, she said. That, in turn, leads to more lockdowns because guards have to accompany victims to the hospital, leaving ranges short-staffed, then more lockdowns.
    http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/...tention-centre

    EMDC is in lockdown due to staffing shortages caused by the recent weather,” Brent Ross, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services, said Monday.

    The lockdown meant no inmates were sent to the London courthouse until after 3 p.m., delaying court proceedings, a source said.

    Prolonged lockdowns in the past have sparked violence at EMDC, with inmates reacting by setting fires, trashing ranges and assaulting each other and guards.
    http://www.lfpress.com/2014/01/06/st...-emdc-lockdown

    EMDC has experienced dozens of work refusals the past three years, often over concerns about safety.

    Those refusals force the institution into a lockdown, where inmates are stuck in their cells for hours or days at a time.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2015/02/10...reening-delays

    Ontario jails have become so short-staffed they’re routinely locked down because there aren’t enough guards to keep them running safely.

    Twice-weekly lockdowns have become the norm since a hiring freeze several years ago, says the union speaking for Ontario’s correctional officers.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/1545818/on...nic-lockdowns/

    Another interesting article about why jails are over-crowded and the problem with the bail process.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/1469462/if...nocent-people/

    But a persistent problem, advocates argue, is that releasing people on bail without conditions has become the exception, rather than the rule – even though Canadian law dictates that should be the default.

    “It’s shocking that it’s not the default, because that is the law and the law is clear,” Deshman said. “There’s clear presumptions of unconditional release. … Unfortunately, the practices in our bail courts just aren’t matching.
    The truth does not cease to exist because it is ignored. ~ Aldous Huxley

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,764
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSherlock View Post
    Totally agree Arnie- but the question is "what is the alternative?" Which is crueler? Being protected even if it means being locked up for 23 hours a day or living in fear and/or being beat up or killed in GP? MOO
    That is a tough one , I find it difficult to offer a better solution ... I suppose it comes down to cost , plus our prisons are already overcrowded and it would appear biased to pamper the sequestered ones

    But in this case (DM) he technically is being held in remand until his trial , and whether he is found innocent or guilty I think his (mental) health could be affected by being stuck in a restrictive cell for 23 hours a day for 3 years .

    .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie M View Post
    That is a tough one , I find it difficult to offer a better solution ... I suppose it comes down to cost , plus our prisons are already overcrowded and it would appear biased to pamper the sequestered ones

    But in this case (DM) he technically is being held in remand until his trial , and whether he is found innocent or guilty I think his (mental) health could be affected by being stuck in a restrictive cell for 23 hours a day for 3 years .

    .
    Pampered? How so?

    I think traumatic stress would be a factor for anyone holed up for 3 years. Held hostage by a system.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hamburg/Bremen
    Posts
    4,675
    When googeling DM, one learns (only) on the right side of screen his name, his profession "pilot" and the names of his parents MB/WM.
    I think, that's relatively new?
    When googeling DM and Wiki, there is nothing (on the right side of screen), that shows up.

    Something happened in the meantime ...


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,764
    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    When googeling DM, one learns (only) on the right side of screen his name, his profession "pilot" and the names of his parents MB/WM.
    I think, that's relatively new?
    When googeling DM and Wiki, there is nothing (on the right side of screen), that shows up.

    Something happened in the meantime ...
    Somebody sanitizing his name ??

    It is amazing how much (good) information has disappeared from the internet in the past couple of years .... it is like the world only wants meaningless twitters about the Kardashians or Justin Beiber

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    When googeling DM, one learns (only) on the right side of screen his name, his profession "pilot" and the names of his parents MB/WM.
    I think, that's relatively new?
    When googeling DM and Wiki, there is nothing (on the right side of screen), that shows up.

    Something happened in the meantime ...
    The Wiki article was deleted because it did not meet the notability requirements for inclusion as an entry.

    Where there are no appropriate existing articles, the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article only if one of the following applies:
    ...
    For perpetrators

    The victim of the crime is a renowned national or international figure, including, but not limited to, politicians or celebrities.[9]
    The motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy—such that it is a well-documented historic event. Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role.[10]
    Note: A living person accused of a crime is presumed not guilty unless and until this is decided by a court of law. Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...d_perpetrators
    The truth does not cease to exist because it is ignored. ~ Aldous Huxley

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Hamburg/Bremen
    Posts
    4,675
    R.I.P.
    “Kidnapping a child away from everything it's known and loved is like ripping someone’s heart out."

    http://www.childrecoveryaustralia.co...arch_Info.html

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWO :)
    Posts
    4,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamarind View Post
    I think traumatic stress would be a factor for anyone holed up for 3 years. Held hostage by a system.
    traumatic stress? held hostage? lol... has he applied for bail yet?

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle14239837/
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    traumatic stress? held hostage? lol... has he applied for bail yet?

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle14239837/
    yes and yes and no he hasn't as he knows its pointless due to system IMO. HTH

Page 1 of 79 1 2 3 11 51 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Some food for thought. What say you?
    By shadowraiths in forum Netflix Series: Making A Murderer
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-24-2016, 08:24 AM
  2. Food for thought
    By HerStory in forum Mysterious woman from Longview, Texas
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-01-2016, 07:51 AM
  3. Food for thought..........
    By ellen13 in forum JonBenet Ramsey
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 04-04-2006, 05:14 AM