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  1. #1
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    Officer shows 'great restraint' NOT shooting charging homicide suspect

    If there were a checklist for when it's OK to shoot a suspect, Kidder could have ticked most of the boxes.

    Double homicide suspect, check.

    Possibly armed, check.

    Verbally threatening police, check.

    Refusing to remove hands from pockets, check.

    Charging at an officer, check.


    "Law enforcement officers all across the nation deal with split-second decisions that mean life or death.
    I wanted to be absolutely sure before I used deadly force," Kidder told CNN affiliate WLWT.

    In the incident, caught on Kidder's body camera, the officer gets out of his car, his gun trained on a suspect who had allegedly killed his fiancee and best friend before leading police on a multicounty chase through Kentucky and Ohio.

    The officer's body camera -- which Kidder's family bought for him
    after the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri -- captured the suspect rushing toward Kidder, unfazed by the officer's handgun.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/19/us/ohi...ect/index.html

  2. #2
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    So now when a police officer doesn't shoot an unarmed suspect, that is considered "great restraint"?

  3. #3
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    This is what scares me. Obviously there was previous concern over whether if he was forced to shoot a suspect, that
    it could negatively affect him. So they bought a body camera themselves. Then he is put into a situation
    where he probably should of shot the guy. How much did that factor into his hesitation?

    I mean I am glad they were able to take the guy into custody safely. But if he had been armed, this could have gone so differently!
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    So now when a police officer doesn't shoot an unarmed suspect, that is considered "great restraint"?
    At what point in the video did you determine he was unarmed? The officer didn't know either.

    Try watching the video again, but put the face of one of your loved ones on the officers face. Is that what you would want your loved one to do?
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    So now when a police officer doesn't shoot an unarmed suspect, that is considered "great restraint"?
    If said suspect just killed his girlfriend, and is running at you with his hand in his waistband, then YES, that is great restraint. You do realize that cops do not know if someone is unarmed until they get the chance to frisk him, right?
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    At what point in the video did you determine he was unarmed? The officer didn't know either.
    They should never shoot until they see a weapon. That is not great restraint. That should be the bare minimum of restraint.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    They should never shoot until they see a weapon. That is not great restraint. That should be the bare minimum of restraint.
    NO. If you are pointing your weapon at a fleeing murder suspect, and he is yelling threats at you and running at you with his hand in his waistband, you do not need to see a weapon. He is a danger because he can tackle you and take yours. Notice how the cop stumbled backwards? he could have been assaulted and overpowered right then.

    I am sorry, but if a murder suspect takes you on a high speed chase, then stops and gets out and begins running at you, screaming, then he is liable to be shot. It is legally justified at that point, imo.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteriew View Post
    This is what scares me. Obviously there was previous concern over whether if he was forced to shoot a suspect, that
    it could negatively affect him. So they bought a body camera themselves. Then he is put into a situation
    where he probably should of shot the guy. How much did that factor into his hesitation?

    I mean I am glad they were able to take the guy into custody safely. But if he had been armed, this could have gone so differently!

    If he had been UNARMED things might have gone so differently. But for the prudent, calm reaction on the part of this officer, this might have been another one of THOSE stories.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    NO. If you are pointing your weapon at a fleeing murder suspect, and he is yelling threats at you and running at you with his hand in his waistband, you do not need to see a weapon. He is a danger because he can tackle you and take yours. Notice how the cop stumbled backwards? he could have been assaulted and overpowered right then.

    I am sorry, but if a murder suspect takes you on a high speed chase, then stops and gets out and begins running at you, screaming, then he is liable to be shot. It is legally justified at that point, imo.
    Wait, are we saying this officer did not do the right thing?

    Kept a cool head. Assessed situation. Followed protocol. Arrested suspect. Nobody died.

    How is that not a perfect example of being a peace officer? I think this officer should be the model for all LEOs.

    JMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllieBee View Post
    Wait, are we saying this officer did not do the right thing?

    Kept a cool head. Assessed situation. Followed protocol. Arrested suspect. Nobody died.

    How is that not a perfect example of being a peace officer? I think this officer should be the model for all LEOs.

    JMO.
    It was a judgment call but he was lucky. It could have easily gone sideways on him. He should have never let a fleeing murder suspect run towards him threateningly and get that close, imo.

    And no, he did not follow protocol. Protocol called for him to shoot when the suspect was running full speed towards him.

    ETA: as for 'nobody died'---actually two people did die at the hands of the fleeing suspect. And he put more in danger when he went on the high speed chase.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllieBee View Post
    If he had been UNARMED things might have gone so differently. But for the prudent, calm reaction on the part of this officer, this might have been another one of THOSE stories.
    I don't really know that this was that prudent. The cop did not take his own safety fully into account, imo. If the suspect did have a weapon it would have taken a split second to begin firing.

    OR he could have jumped on the cop when he stumbled backwards and lost his balance. That could have been a deadly mistake on his part. I don't think the cop was all that prudent. I think he was afraid of being the next Darren Wilson, imo.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllieBee View Post
    Wait, are we saying this officer did not do the right thing?

    Kept a cool head. Assessed situation. Followed protocol. Arrested suspect. Nobody died.

    How is that not a perfect example of being a peace officer? I think this officer should be the model for all LEOs.

    JMO.
    BBM

    I disagree. I do not think it should be the number one priority of an officer that every suspect that confronts him should live to tell about it. The officer's priority should be his own safety and be thinking about his own family.

    Look at this case. The suspect allegedly killed two people then went on a high speed chase. All those were very poor choices on his part. Then he jumps out of the car and rushes the cop, threatening to kill him.

    At that point, should the life of the charging suspect be the cops number on priority? I don't think so. I think the cop should think of himself anf his family first.

    My son has his first child on the way, any day now. I hope he puts that child's life and welfare before the life of any suspect that might charge him and threaten to kill him.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    They should never shoot until they see a weapon. That is not great restraint. That should be the bare minimum of restraint.
    The Officer was advised by dispatch that the suspect may have a gun under his seat, that he was a suspect in homicides AND that he might try suicide by cop. That's all the information the officer needed but it is also more information than many officers have to make a decision whether to shoot. He chose to call his bluff so that taxpayers can try him, convict him and pay for three hots and a cot for the rest of the *******'s life. That's a win for the cop because he doesn't have to go through the emotional ordeal that comes with shooting someone. The ******* still goes down and is off the streets for good.

    JMO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    BBM

    I disagree. I do not think it should be the number one priority of an officer that every suspect that confronts him should live to tell about it. The officer's priority should be his own safety and be thinking about his own family.
    Please respect the Constitution.

    Amendment V

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


    What you are advocating is no due process of law, and police officers are sworn to uphold the constitution, not their own safety or their family.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    They should never shoot until they see a weapon. That is not great restraint. That should be the bare minimum of restraint.
    You can get shot without ever seeing a weapon.
    Just when I think that I have seen the most depraved things a human can do to another human, somebody posts a new story...........

    Why is it that when a custodial parent fails to provide for a child it is called neglect and is a criminal matter. But when a non custodial parent fails to provide it is called failure to support and is a civil matter?


    "Just when the caterpillar thought its world was over, it became a butterfly" ~ Michelle Knight

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