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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    UK/Ireland - Robert Black - Europe's Worst Child Killer?

    Could it be that Robert Black, 68, could be Europe's worst serial killer of children, behind Marc Dutroux, Andres Pandy and Michel Fourniret? (Of course, none of them are bad as Gilles de Rais, but that's a whole other story) Convicted of four murders, suspected of many, many more?

    Black was born in Scotland in 1947. Fostered, he did not fit in at school and bullies called him 'Smelly Robby Tulip' (his foster parents' name). He preferred to hang around with younger children whilst still at school, an indication toward his later life, perhaps, beginning to plant itself?
    His foster mother died when Black was 11, which was the worst thing that could have happened to him. A year later, he and two other boys attempted to rape a girl. He was sent to the Red House in Musselburgh, where a male member of staff sexually abused him.
    At 15, he left Red House and worked as a delivery boy in Greenock, near Glasgow. He said he molested 30 to 40 girls while out on his rounds, but only caught at 17 when he assaulted a 7-year-old girl.
    He then moved back to his town of birth and got a job with a builder's supply company. In 1966, he molested his landlord's nine-year-old daughter. They took no legal action but made him leave the house.
    Moving in with another couple in the Highlands, he molested their 7-year-old girl. However, this time, he was arrested and had a year of borstal training. Astonishingly, when he left he worked at a swimming pool upon release. Maybe if the sex offenders' register was public then, he may not have been. This may also have prevented him from killing.
    He used to go under the pool and dim the lights so he could watch girls swim. A young girl said he touched her and he lost his job.
    When he lived in London he spent a lot of time playing darts. Darts championship Eric Bristow remembers him as a 'loner' who didn't have a girlfriend. In 1976, Black began working as a van driver.

    Black has been convicted of four murders - Jennifer Cardy, 9, Northern Ireland, 1981; Susan Maxwell, 11, from the English side of the Scottish borders, 1982; Caroline Hogg, 5, from Edinburgh, 1983; and Sarah Harper, 10, from Leeds, 1986. He was convicted of killing Susan, Caroline and Sarah in 1994, four years after his arrest for abducting and assaulting a 6-year-old girl, and Jennifer's murder in 2011.

    However, Black is suspected of child murders going back to 1969 over Europe. I will state the UK murders and say why or why not I think Black killed them.

    APRIL FABB, 13, Norfolk - On 8th April 1969, April was delivering a birthday present when she vanished. Her bicycle was found by the side of the road minutes after she was last seen. Black targeted girls on bicycles. April has not been found.

    I DO NOT think Black killed her. While it is true the route to April's village is only three long routes from where he lived in London, I have to point out a few discrepancies. April was 5'4, the average WOMAN'S height in 1969 was roughly the same, so she may have looked OLDER than 13. I DO NOT BELIEVE Black willingly targeted teenagers.
    He thought Theresa Thornhill, 15, who he attempted to abduct in 1988, was ten due to her height and being underdeveloped. I realise this is flimsy, but read on.
    Also, Peter Tobin, who is a year older than Black, holidayed in Norfolk. April was abducted just after Easter. Both visited Norfolk, due Tobin was more likely to be in Norfolk ON THAT DATE. If Tobin was in Norfolk then, in a similar way Black was known to be in Devon in 1978, it remains nigh on impossible that another serial killer would have abducted her.

    CHRISTINE MARKHAM, 9, Scunthorpe - Christine disappeared on May 21st 1973, from Humberside in Scunthrope. She bunked off school and wandered around the town, as she had done many times before. She was sighted at the train station several times.

    I DO think Black took this girl as she does seem to resemble Black's known victims. Humberside is four to five direct routes from where Black lived in 1973, one option using the M1. It's possible she was taken some miles south before he killed her.

    MARY BOYLE, 6, Ireland - Mary Boyle disappeared from Ballyshannon, on March 18th 1977. She was following her uncle on a 450 yard path.

    I DO believe Black took her. A year later, he appeared on a Garda sheet for after-hours drinking. He was also noticed by two women when he asked about another girl, when he became angry.

    As Mary vanished close to the border, it is likely her body is in Northern Ireland. Given Black's fondness for the Midlands Triangle and wanting to take two girls from the same area, it could be possible her body is near where Jennifer Cardy was found.

    GENETTE TATE, 13, Devon - Genette was talking to her friends in Aylesbeare, Devon, on 19th August 1978, before going to deliver newspapers on her bicycle. Her friends heard something and waited before going over. Her bicycle and newspapers were lying on the ground and she had gone.

    I DEFINITELY think Black took Genette. She was five foot, attacked from behind, with a similar hairstyle to his known victims. Black had been delivering in Exeter, Devon, that same day. He has been the prime suspect since his attack.

    SUZANNE LAWRENCE, 14, Essex - Suzanne was last seen by her sister in Harold Hill, Essex, in July 1979. This was near the route Black took to go back north. He also seemed to 'know about children whose plight never made the headline news', which included Suzanne.

    I DO NOT think he took Suzanne. If he went on that route regularly, he may have learnt about her from a local paper. If she never made headline news, she almost certainly would have been mentioned in her local paper. Besides, in the few photographs released of her, she appears her age - 14.

    Peter Tobin has been named often as a suspect, so he is a possibility. The route would have taken him from the south to Norfolk. It was summer, so he may have decided to take her. The only problem is, I do not know the exact date Suzanne vanished, no matter how far I've searched. Maybe Tobin might have just wanted a summer holiday?

    PATSY MORRIS, 14, Hounslow - Patricia Morris disappeared from her school in June 1980. Her strangled body was found on Hounslow Heath after two days. I believe she was not sexually assaulted.

    I DEFINITELY DO NOT think he murdered Patsy. Another girl who looked her age, she was NOT sexually assaulted. Why would Black - or even Tobin, who has also been suspected - take a girl then kill them without sexual pleasure? It makes no sense.

    Also, she seemed to know Levi Bellfield, Bus Stop Killer. Some said they dated. He was 12, but I think violent enough to kill.

    PAMELA HASTIE, 16, Johnstone - Pamela was killed on 4th November 1981 in Johnstone, near Glasgow. She was found in Rannoch Woods, having been strangled. A man says he drove into someone who resembled Black.

    I DEFINITELY DO NOT think Black murdered Pamela. Let me get this out; I am going to state how absolutely impossible this is. Pamela was five years older than his oldest known victim. Pamela did not look like any of his victims. She was not driven several miles away, but strangled near her home. I think that being a November afternoon in Scotland, it was likely dark. So, the likelihood of someone seeing a face and recognizing it clearly after 13 YEARS?

    Plus, Tobin was born there and knew the area. He may even have lived there at the time.

    TRACEY WATERS, 11, Johnstone - Tracey was strangled on Valentine's Day 1983 in the same town as Pamela. She was not sexually assaulted.

    I DO NOT think Black killed Tracey. Her uncle, who was accused and ran away in 2001 and remains missing, is a much more likely suspect. She was not sexually assaulted, which means it was probably not a sexual crime.

    Previously, I said that Black may have decided to go back to where he'd previously abducted a girl. However, the likelihood of him committing a crime in the same town where another serial killer lived and possibly killed, in a crime where the victim's uncle is a more likely suspect?


    LISA HESSION, 14, Leigh - Lisa Hession was coming home from a Christmas party on 8th December 1984. She was sexually assaulted and strangled in an alleyway with her own t-shirt. Her outfit may have made her appear older than her age.

    I DO NOT think Black killed Lisa. As stated, she may have looked older and it was late (10.30) and dark. As stated in another forum, I believe Tobin killed her.

    Here are some non-British possibilities mentioned at one time or another.

    Bernadette Connolly, 10, 1970 - http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=28979

    Cheryl Morrien, 7, 1986 - http://doenetwork.org/cases-int/422dfnet.html

    Virginie Delmas, 10, Perrine Vigneron, 7, Hemma Davy-Greedharry, 10 and Sabine Dumont, 9, 1987 - http://pipiou.over-blog.com/article-...-45144225.html

    Also, here are a few more I'm just throwing out there that remind me of his known and suspected crimes.

    Nathalie Mazot, France, 1982 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/1588dffra.html

    Nathalie Martins-Laevens, France, 1980 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/2125dffra.html

    Charazed Bendouiou, France, 1987 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/1214dffra.html

    Therese Johannessen, Norway, 1988 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/1093dfnor.html

    Beata Radke, Poland, 1975 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/431dfpol.html

    Anna Sapiela, Poland, 1985 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/1228dfpol.html

    Marianne Decker, Germany, 1971 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/714dfdeu.html

    Ramona Herling, Germany, 1989 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/416dfdeu.html

    Sarah Obersen, Switzerland, 1985 - http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/413dfche.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    McWopetaz Metroplex, Illinois U. S. of A.
    I haven't read up on this guy for a while but I do remember that he was a poi in several unsolved child murders.
    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

    Stan Reid

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    I do believe Robert Black is responsible for the disappearance of April Fabb which i believe may of been his first murder and he definately should be considered the prime suspect in the mary boyle case and is most likely to be responsible for dozens of unsolved child murders. I however do not believe Black is Responsible for Genette Tates disappearance i believe Ian Bealey should be the prime suspect in this case.

  4. #4
    This piece of evil was tried in Newcastle court of law, this is where I grew up and a coworker was called up for jury duty. The court case was was so disturbing, he had a breakdown and was on medical leave for 2 years :-(

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by arizona sunshine View Post
    This piece of evil was tried in Newcastle court of law, this is where I grew up and a coworker was called up for jury duty. The court case was was so disturbing, he had a breakdown and was on medical leave for 2 years :-(
    i can imagine it wouldnt be easy for anyone to here what that evil did to those girls. Whats still so appalling is there are families out there with loved ones missing who this monster has killed who will probably never know what happened to there loved ones.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by arizona sunshine View Post
    This piece of evil was tried in Newcastle court of law, this is where I grew up and a coworker was called up for jury duty. The court case was was so disturbing, he had a breakdown and was on medical leave for 2 years :-(
    Your poor coworker! I saw a documentary about him earlier and the creepiest thing about his voice is that it's so normal - he sounds like your friend or your dad's friend. I just can't believe he's responsible for so much misery!

    I don't think he took April; I will keep saying it, she had longer hair than shown in her photo, but she looked her age whereas Genette didn't, yes, she was on a bicycle, but Tobin is more likely to have been there considering the date - plus, if April is found further north (Black lived in London at the time), especially if she's found in or near Glasgow, the finger could point more to Tobin.

    I do think he may have had a hand in the abductions of Ramona Herling and Nathalie Mazot, however. Natalie vanished an almost straight route to the Dordognes where Black visited (like Genette, she was small for her age). It's going to difficult to look at these because of the language barrier and foreign legal issues.

    I don't think anyone thinks he killed Lisa Hession any more.

    For some reason, a few websites still list Colette Aram and Marion Crofts as Black's victims when it's been proven they aren't.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    remember Robert blacks first attack on a child was at the age of 12. So from a very early age Black was quite capable of harming and killing a child. We also know that Black was given a fine for driving without a driving licence 4 years before he got his driving licence. So Black may have been killing from a very early age.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Robert Black has died today. As mentioned in the article at the link, he probably takes a lot of secrets to the grave.


    Notorious child murderer Robert Black, who was jailed for life for killing four children in the 1980s, has died in prison.

    Serial child killer Black, 68, originally of Grangemouth, in the Forth Valley, abducted and abused young girls from across the UK before murdering them and was serving 12 life sentences for his crimes.

    The former delivery driver died of natural causes in Maghaberry prison in Northern Ireland.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Robert Black dies a few weeks before he was going to be charged with Ganette tates murder. Looks like the police were taking a fresh look into Robert Black. We may have seen him linked and charged with more murders.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Since I was taught to not show disrespect to the dead, I will say that it is a pity he did not say where his victims are.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    You don't suppose Black could be responsible for the disappearance of Sandy Davison, do you? I've put my suggestions forward.

    1) Sandy was a 4-year-old boy who disappeared in Irvine, Ayrshire, in Scotland on 23rd April 1976. He ran out of a side-gate to look for the family dog. His sister ran out as well, but she returned without him.

    Like the four cases he was known to have committed (and the Genette Tate case), this was quick, opportunistic and not witnessed.

    2) Black's delivery route took him to Glasgow. Glasgow is only 25 miles from Irvine.

    He began a his van-driving job in 1976. However, I cannot find the date. But I do know that this sort of person would want to strike at the earliest opportunity, like a child with a new toy.

    3) It happened at a critical point in the timeline. Serial killers sometimes have a few years between the first and second murders, before killing at a much quicker pace.

    Black is very likely to have murdered Christine Markham in 1973, three years before. (NB: I think that he took her on the road north of Scunthorpe, as she was going to a wooded place whose name escapes me.) His next possible crime is Mary Boyle in Ireland in March 1977. Then just seventeen months before Genette Tate's murder.

    It would not surprise me if he committed if he committed three murders over a two-and-a-half year period.

    4) And this is the most important thing.

    Sandy was a boy. BUT...

    With his curls and his young age, he could pass for a girl. Plus, Sandy is a unisex name, just saying.

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