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  1. #1
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    By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

    Again, here is the headline --

    By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ries?CMP=fb_tc


    As the statistics show, this is not because there are more crimes committed here in the USA than elsewhere.

    Oh, and there have been no statistics to show that race is the cause of the problem.

  2. #2
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    Here in the UK of course we have no right to bear arms and guns are much less readily accessible. Very few criminals here are therefore armed with firearms. Most of our police also carry no arms, which is still viable here in a way that would be ridiculous in the USA due to how many of the bad guys over there carry guns. We have mobile armed police units especially trained in the use of firearms that can respond fairly quickly rather than having all police men and women carry guns.

    Everytime an armed police officer shoots someone here, there is an automatic full scale investigation into exactly what happened. Generally they are only permitted to shoot either to protect themselves or their colleagues or members of the public. If ever they shot someone for simply trying to run away or anything like that, they'd likely end up on a murder or manslaughter charge.

    A large amount of training is given to firearms officers, not just in the use of firearms but in exactly when and in which circumstances they may be used. Such officers are also paid rather more in recognition of this extra responsibility.

    Based upon what I have seen of shooting incidents by cops in the USA, some American cops do seem too ready to resort to firearms, whose use is so routine that there appears to be little in the way of serious investigation into the circumstances of any shooting - until or unless someone catches incontrovertible evidence of something questionable on film. Very few US cops ever seem to be held to account for what looks like questionable use of firearms. That this appears to be so seems to be generating a lot of public anger in some quarters over there, based upon the news reports I have seen.

    Resorting to firearms ought to be more of a last resort, with more thourough investigation into the circumstances of every shooting.

    Of course, it will be the case that most US cops are decent people doing a difficult and dangerous job to the very best of their abilities. It is only the excessive actions of a minority caught on camera which makes all the negative headlines. Nevertheless, the fact that there are so many more shootings by cop in America than there are, for example, in most European countries is something that ought to be looked into. It suggests the possibility that too many cops are resorting to firearms too readily.

  3. #3
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    Being from Canada, but having lived many years in the US and Blighty myself, I think you're spot on. Just my opinion, but it's tragic. Thank you so much for your response.

  4. #4
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    There were 42 people killed in Baltimore last month alone. I think if you are going to look at the number of people shot by police, while the police are trying to arrest them, maybe we should also compare the numbers of violent crimes perpetrated by the criminals in this country.

    The police here are battling ARMED and DANGEROUS gang members. Sometimes they mistakenly shoot an unarmed suspect. But the numbers discussed in this thread title are taken out of context, imo. Because it is true that the police kill more in days than other countries do in years, BUT THE CRIMINALS HERE KILL MORE AS WELL...which is why it happens.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  5. #5
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    That Guardian article is ridiculous. They compare shootings by police in the UK< WHO DO NOT CARRY GUNS---LOL

    And the comparison to ICELANDIC cops. RIGHT.


    Fact: There has been just one fatal shooting by Icelandic police in the country’s 71-year history. The city of Stockton, California – with 25,000 fewer residents than all of Iceland combined – had three fatal encounters in the first five months of 2015.

    Behind the numbers: A 2013 police shooting in Iceland drew international attention because it was the first of its kind; there had literally never been a fatal police shooting recorded there before two years ago.

    In Stockton, Patrick Wetter, Matautu Nuu and Carl Lao were all fatally shot by police in the 64-day span between 6 January and 4 March. According to US census data from 2013, Stockton has a population of 298,118; World Bank data puts Iceland’s population at 323,764 for the same year.

    Iceland’s official intentional homicide rate is so low that it does not register in World Bank data on intentional homicides per 100,000 people. For the US, the rate is five per 100,000.

    ================================================== ==============================
    SERIOUSLY? Iceland's homicide rate is ZERO. ^^^^^ And you want to compare a cop in Stockton, a gang infested low income city, with one in ICELAND, where there is NO VIOLENT CRIME...
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    That Guardian article is ridiculous. They compare shootings by police in the UK< WHO DO NOT CARRY GUNS---LOL

    And the comparison to ICELANDIC cops. RIGHT.


    Fact: There has been just one fatal shooting by Icelandic police in the country’s 71-year history. The city of Stockton, California – with 25,000 fewer residents than all of Iceland combined – had three fatal encounters in the first five months of 2015.

    Behind the numbers: A 2013 police shooting in Iceland drew international attention because it was the first of its kind; there had literally never been a fatal police shooting recorded there before two years ago.

    In Stockton, Patrick Wetter, Matautu Nuu and Carl Lao were all fatally shot by police in the 64-day span between 6 January and 4 March. According to US census data from 2013, Stockton has a population of 298,118; World Bank data puts Iceland’s population at 323,764 for the same year.

    Iceland’s official intentional homicide rate is so low that it does not register in World Bank data on intentional homicides per 100,000 people. For the US, the rate is five per 100,000.

    ================================================== ==============================
    SERIOUSLY? Iceland's homicide rate is ZERO. ^^^^^ And you want to compare a cop in Stockton, a gang infested low income city, with one in ICELAND, where there is NO VIOLENT CRIME...

    Oh, are you suggesting that they only compared US rates to Iceland?

    And if your arguments are strong enough on the bases of logic and evidence, do you think that the boldfaced text is necessary? Just wondering.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    There were 42 people killed in Baltimore last month alone. I think if you are going to look at the number of people shot by police, while the police are trying to arrest them, maybe we should also compare the numbers of violent crimes perpetrated by the criminals in this country.

    The police here are battling ARMED and DANGEROUS gang members. Sometimes they mistakenly shoot an unarmed suspect. But the numbers discussed in this thread title are taken out of context, imo. Because it is true that the police kill more in days than other countries do in years, BUT THE CRIMINALS HERE KILL MORE AS WELL...which is why it happens.
    I am really tired of this public attack on police.These brave men and women put themselves in harms way everyday to keep us safe.Put yourself in their shoes and think about what kind of violent criminals they are in contact with everday and how difficult it is to protect themselves and civillians.If you are shot by the police while commiting a crime well thats on you.I imagine there will be many officers leaving the force because of all this scrutiny that will put their lives in danger because they can not do their job for fear of backlash.If you don't want to get shot by the police don't do crimes,and obey the police.

  8. #8
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    Let's look at those three 'murders' by the Stockton police:

    Matattuu Nuu:
    Police responded to a family disturbance. Nuu struck a police dog with a hammer and reportedly moved to strike the K9 handler when police opened fire. Nuu died in hospital.[19]

    Patrick Wetter;

    (Police action) Police responded to a break-in at a group home. The suspect attacked a K9, stabbing it with a knife. He then raised the knife threateningly at officers, who fired, striking the suspect multiple times. [97]

    Carl Lao:

    Lao was firing a gun into the air when officers arrived and began exchanging gunfire with him. He died March 27, 2015.[199]
    STOCKTON, Calif. (KCRA) —A Stockton man was hospitalized in critical condition Wednesday night after he fired a handgun at a business, a mail van, police officers and a sheriff's deputy, investigators said.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templat...Year#January_2
    015


    SO IT IS HARD TO COMPARE THESE SHOOTINGS WITH A COP IN ICELAND
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    Oh, are you suggesting that they only compared US rates to Iceland?

    And if your arguments are strong enough on the bases of logic and evidence, do you think that the boldfaced text is necessary? Just wondering.
    They compared it to the UK, where cops don't have guns.

    Then Germany, where the level of violent crime is much less.

    Than Australia, where again there is no comparison to what cops here in urban cities deal with.

    Than to ICELAND. Which is laughable to compare it to.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    SO IT IS HARD TO COMPARE THESE SHOOTINGS WITH A COP IN ICELAND
    No need to 'yell' with all capital letters, but how so? Do you have any idea of what has been going on in Iceland over the last 10 years or so? (I do.)


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    Oh, are you suggesting that they only compared US rates to Iceland?

    And if your arguments are strong enough on the bases of logic and evidence, do you think that the boldfaced text is necessary? Just wondering.
    Yes, I use boldfaced text because I can highlight the points I am trying to make. It is not bothersome if you just ignore it or scroll by.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    No need to 'yell' with all capital letters, but how so? Do you have any idea of what has been going on in Iceland over the last 10 years or so? (I do.)

    "Iceland’s official intentional homicide rate is so low that it does not register in World Bank data on intentional homicides per 100,000 people. For the US, the rate is five per 100,000."
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    "Iceland’s official intentional homicide rate is so low that it does not register in World Bank data on intentional homicides per 100,000 people. For the US, the rate is five per 100,000."
    That doesn't actually address the issues there. It's not all about homicide rates. And whatever you might say, in my opinion, excessive use of boldface or caps is just plain rude, but that is your choice. So go for it!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    They compared it to the UK, where cops don't have guns.

    Then Germany, where the level of violent crime is much less.

    Than Australia, where again there is no comparison to what cops here in urban cities deal with.

    Than to ICELAND. Which is laughable to compare it to.
    With respect, I don't think that any of your observations about the other countries are worth reading. Every country you mentioned has a variety of different problems. And to say that, for example, Germany has a lower rate of violent crime -- well, perhaps the police are doing something right there. Same with Australia. It's not like any of these countries are without drugs or gangs (or whatever problem you'd like to mention). People are people -- but policies and laws differ.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    With respect, I don't think that any of your observations about the other countries are worth reading. Every country you mentioned has a variety of different problems. And to say that, for example, Germany has a lower rate of violent crime -- well, perhaps the police are doing something right there. Same with Australia. It's not like any of these countries are without drugs or gangs (or whatever problem you'd like to mention). People are people -- but policies and laws differ.
    So the Bloods and Crips and MS13 is in Iceland, Wales, and Australia now? Have any of those countries had a city with 42 murders in a 30 day span?
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

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