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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_lab7410 View Post
    No offense, but I get the feeling if he was Asian, he may have not received much attention because he was possible run-away, and wearing women's clothes... wouldn't be surprised if he has a family whom due to cultural perception, chose to shun him in his lifetime to some harsh degrees.

    It's VERY difficult to have varying sexual orientation for most people, but for Asians, oh my, forget it!
    That's a very good point, though very sad.

  2. #32
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    There is also a population that live in the shadows especially in Queens.....lived there for several years and am amazed how many Asians came in illegally and live to pay off the impossible debt of coming to the US. There was a woman whose name escapes me....she promised jobs to those who wanted to leave China and come to the US for "a better life". Sad yet same story of living several to a room, working for little money and being so isolated from family and friends and unable to create a community and support system of your own.

    Sadly this young man may be one of such people.
    The greatest trick the Devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist.

    Three candles that illume every darkness: truth, nature, knowledge.


    "There, isn't this a beautiful piece of cloth!", exclaimed the swindlers, as they described the lovely design that didn't exist.

  3. #33
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    I believe, the victim found on Long Island in 2011 and defined as Asian Male is Tirrel Santiago.

    Here is a comparison of the two

    ASIAN MALE is 66 inches
    TIRREL SANTIAGO is 66 inches

    ASIAN MALE is slim built
    TIRREL SANTIAGO is 115 pounds

    ASIAN MALE is dead in 2005
    TIRREL SANTIAGO went missing in August 2005

    ASIAN MALE is found in women's clothing
    TIRREL SANTIAGO dresses as a woman

    I believe Tirrel Santiago's skull was misattributed as Asian due to his mixed bloodline and that's it. A simple mistake prevents his identification.

    Another of the bodies, also yet to be identified, is believed to be that of an Asian male, Spota said.
    http://archive.longislandpress.com/2...ocean-parkway/

    The skeleton of an adult male, wearing women’s clothing and thought to be Asian in ethnicity,
    http://pix11.com/2014/08/05/the-hunt...beach-murders/

    Tirrel Santiago
    http://www.missingkids.com/photograp...C1180750c1.jpg

    Asian Male
    https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764

    Namus, SCPD and NYPD have been made aware about the possibility for more than a year. A DNA sample for Tirrel Santiago hasn't been collected so far.

    NAMUS records for the two
    TIRREL SANTIAGO
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9508/53

    ASIAN MALE
    https://identifyus.org/cases/9355

    http://madamestbeatrice.tumblr.com/p...irrel-santiago
    https://www.google.com.tr/?gws_rd=ssl#q=tirrel+santiago

  4. #34
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    Tirrel Santiago
    http://www.missingkids.com/photograp...C1180750c1.jpg

    Asian Male
    https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764


    Police said the Asian man was between 17 and 23 years old and approximately 5- feet-6. The man was missing both his top and bottom molars and one of his top front teeth, police said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island...ry?id=14563427

    When you lose molars, the jaw bone gets thinner in time. As it is not regularly stimulated by chewing action.

    https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=m...5rqieCft3dM%3A

    Notice the indendation on the bottom jawbone on the lefthand side, for both the "Asian" Male and Tirrel.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre E View Post
    Tirrel Santiago
    http://www.missingkids.com/photograp...C1180750c1.jpg

    Asian Male
    https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764


    Police said the Asian man was between 17 and 23 years old and approximately 5- feet-6. The man was missing both his top and bottom molars and one of his top front teeth, police said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island...ry?id=14563427

    When you lose molars, the jaw bone gets thinner in time. As it is not regularly stimulated by chewing action.

    https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=m...5rqieCft3dM%3A

    Notice the indendation on the bottom jawbone on the lefthand side, for both the "Asian" Male and Tirrel.
    I have no idea how these sort of things work so this comes from a great deal of cultural and science ignorance. If it turns out that you are not correct could it be possible this person is mixed but with something besides an Asian ethnicity? I have found just from observation that those who have one parent that is white and one that is a native South American their eyes can look very similar to eyes of an Asian person. Then with the other features it could be those inherited from a white parent. I don't know if this is a really stupid idea but I thought I'd throw it out there.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by savemebarry View Post
    I have no idea how these sort of things work so this comes from a great deal of cultural and science ignorance. If it turns out that you are not correct could it be possible this person is mixed but with something besides an Asian ethnicity? I have found just from observation that those who have one parent that is white and one that is a native South American their eyes can look very similar to eyes of an Asian person. Then with the other features it could be those inherited from a white parent. I don't know if this is a really stupid idea but I thought I'd throw it out there.

    "Santiago" is probably a Puerto Rican name. If he's got Native American blood that may explain why his skull was not simply an African-American skull, as native American blood is indeed Asian. I believe, the skull was baffling and to create a sketch they kind of "arbitrarily" chose Asian.

    If the same skull was painted for a Black man, we could be seeing something very close to Tirrel.

    Seems, like the family name Santiago in ENY also has ties to Philippines as well but not sure if those are relatives of Tirrel Santiago.

    Tirrel is defined as Medium complexion, sandy brown hair and brown eyes.

  7. #37
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    The Asian Male

    Quote Originally Posted by Emre E View Post
    "Santiago" is probably a Puerto Rican name. If he's got Native American blood that may explain why his skull was not simply an African-American skull, as native American blood is indeed Asian. I believe, the skull was baffling and to create a sketch they kind of "arbitrarily" chose Asian.

    If the same skull was painted for a Black man, we could be seeing something very close to Tirrel.

    Seems, like the family name Santiago in ENY also has ties to Philippines as well but not sure if those are relatives of Tirrel Santiago.

    Tirrel is defined as Medium complexion, sandy brown hair and brown eyes.
    santiago is a spanish name, mostly a name but it can be used as a surname in some countries that were. spanis colonies like the philippines and puerto rico (eg, in my country,peru, is used as a christian name)
    there is a lot of mixed race people in south and central america, we have the native population which resembles native american in some physical traits, asian (chinese and japanese mainly), african and european
    i agree that trying to pinpoint race from a skull that presents many different racial traits could be baffling and difficult
    Last edited by pukasonqo2; 07-18-2015 at 05:47 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pukasonqo2 View Post
    santiago is a spanish name, mostly a name but it can be used as a surname in some countries that were. spanis colonies like the philippines and puerto rico (eg, in my country,peru, is used as a christian name)
    there is a lot of mixed race people in south and central america, we have the native population which resembles native american in some physical traits, asian (chinese and japanese mainly), african and european
    i agree that trying to pinpoint race from a skull that presents many different racial traits could be baffling and difficult
    You're correct that Santiago is originally a Spanish name, but I see you get my point. Spanish culture goes to both South America and Philippines as part of colonialism.

  9. #39
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    Wow. Awesome work, that. You are right, looks 100%.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danse_Macabre View Post
    Hi Websleuthers,

    We are looking for some help. We know you are experts when it comes to matching unidentified remains (Jane/John Does) to Missing Persons and we are very interested in knowing what your findings have been for "Asian Male." We think out of all the Jane and John Does off Ocean Parkway, "Asian Male" maybe the best chance at identification.

    We hope with good leads from the WS community we may be able to help move the investigation forward.

    Thanks,
    Rachel & Josh

    I maintain a searchable spreadsheet listing over 16,000 missing persons from the four most used missing persons sites (Charley Project, NamUs, DoeNetwork, and NAMPN).

    I set the parameters for the particulars provided for "Asian Male"
    * Male
    * Age 17-23
    * Asian
    * Missing between 1-Jan-2000 and 31-Jan-2006)

    I further filtered it for persons missing in the Northeastern states and Eastern Provinces of Canada. There is no reason why "Asian Male" might not be from another region, but I prefer to focus on the northeastern states and provinces. My initial screen doesn't filter for height, as height estimates are notoriously unreliable, but I will still consider the height after evaluating the resulting list.

    This yielded only six names.



    * Brian Lee (23) from Queens NY - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lee_brian.html
    * Siphet Chao (19) from Portland ME - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chau_siphat.html
    * Neil Louis Boware (21) from Akron OH http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/boware_neal.html
    * Mo Zheng (17) of Yorktown Virginia http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/z/zhang_mo.html
    * Kevin Lim (18) of Scarborough Ontario (Canada) http://www.nampn.org/cases/lim_kevin.html
    * Jackie Li (18) of Scarborough Ontario (Canada) http://www.nampn.org/cases/li_jackie.html

    We can probably eliminate Brian Lee due to his height (6 feet 2 inches), and his facial shape is not particularly close to the reconstruction.
    Siphet Chao's facial structure is also inconsistent to the reconstruction.
    Neil Boware was part African American in addition to his Asian ancestry. That probably would have been noted by the Anthropologist. Also, the circumstances of disappearance appear to suggest a suicide. He was last seen atop a bridge in Ohio.

    Kevin Lim and Jackie Li look like interesting possibilities. They went missing with Li's girlfriend and are persons of interest in the death of a friend of theirs. Jackie would probably be too tall at 5 feet 10. Kevin's height (5 feet 8 inches) is closer to the John Doe's height of 5 feet 6. If they were evading the law, they might have a reason to dress in women's clothing. However, Canadian Law Enforcement believes that these two young men and their female friend are in Hong Kong. Nothing here to rule them out, but they aren't particularly compelling as possibly being this John Doe.

    The one person on this list that I do find compelling is Mo Zheng. Here he is side-by-side with the facial reconstruction of the "Asian Male" John Doe.



    We have no information to suggest that he had a missing front tooth, or a musculoskeletal disorder that may have affected his gait (as AMJD did). We also don't have any suggestion that he was a cross-dresser. Mo's dental and medical records aren't available to know one way or the other. Nor is there any available information pertaining to his lifestyle. The fact that something isn't mentioned should not lead one to presume that those characteristics don't exist with this person.

    As for the information that is available on Mo Zheng, it matches up very nicely with the particulars of AMJD.
    * His height 5'5" is within an inch of AMJD's estimated height.
    * His age 17 is within AMJD's 17-23 age estimate.
    * His date of last contact (09-Aug-2006) is consistent to AMJD's estimated date of death (i.e., 5-10 years prior to the 2011 discovery)
    * His circumstances of disappearance aren't clear. However, his disappearance was thought to be voluntary with no suggestion of foul play at the location of his last contact (Yorktown Virginia).

    And what is very interesting is the consistency of his facial structure to the artist's estimation of what AMJD might have looked like based on the shape of his skull.

    I've done animated GIF image clips in a couple of other cases to show how a person's face aligns up to a facial reconstruction.

    I thought that this technique would be appropriate in this case to show how closely Mo Zheng's facial structure aligns to the facial reconstruction sketch for Asian Male.



    The few minor differences in the eyes and breadth of the nose are well within the tolerances for this type of facial reconstruction based on purely skeletal remains.

    I called to the LISK taskforce hotline back in 2011 to suggest that they look at Mo Zheng. However, I have no way to know if they ever looked into the tip. The task force doesn't publicize rule-outs.

    According to NamUs, there are no identifiers of any kind (DNA, fingerprints, or dental records) on record for Mo Zheng. If that is true, so there would be no way that they could verify this tip even if they wanted to. Based on the lack of identifiers, I would have to presume that this is still an open issue as to whether Mo Zheng is AMJD.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 09-04-2015 at 04:39 AM.


  11. #41
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    915
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I maintain a searchable spreadsheet listing over 16,000 missing persons from the four most used missing persons sites (Charley Project, NamUs, DoeNetwork, and NAMPN).

    I set the parameters for the particulars provided for "Asian Male"
    * Male
    * Age 17-23
    * Asian
    * Missing between 1-Jan-2000 and 31-Jan-2006)

    I further filtered it for persons missing in the Northeastern states and Eastern Provinces of Canada. There is no reason why "Asian Male" might not be from another region, but I prefer to focus on the northeastern states and provinces. My initial screen doesn't filter for height, as height estimates are notoriously unreliable, but I will still consider the height after evaluating the resulting list.

    This yielded only six names.



    * Brian Lee (23) from Queens NY - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lee_brian.html
    * Siphet Chao (19) from Portland ME - http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/chau_siphat.html
    * Neil Louis Boware (21) from Akron OH http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/boware_neal.html
    * Mo Zheng (17) of Yorktown Virginia http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/z/zhang_mo.html
    * Kevin Lim (18) of Scarborough Ontario (Canada) http://www.nampn.org/cases/lim_kevin.html
    * Jackie Li (18) of Scarborough Ontario (Canada) http://www.nampn.org/cases/li_jackie.html

    We can probably eliminate Brian Lee due to his height (6 feet 2 inches), and his facial shape is not particularly close to the reconstruction.
    Siphet Chao's facial structure is also inconsistent to the reconstruction.
    Neil Boware was part African American in addition to his Asian ancestry. That probably would have been noted by the Anthropologist. Also, the circumstances of disappearance appear to suggest a suicide. He was last seen atop a bridge in Ohio.

    Kevin Lim and Jackie Li look like interesting possibilities. They went missing with Li's girlfriend and are persons of interest in the death of a friend of theirs. Jackie would probably be too tall at 5 feet 10. Kevin's height (5 feet 8 inches) is closer to the John Doe's height of 5 feet 6. If they were evading the law, they might have a reason to dress in women's clothing. However, Canadian Law Enforcement believes that these two young men and their female friend are in Hong Kong. Nothing here to rule them out, but they aren't particularly compelling as possibly being this John Doe.

    The one person on this list that I do find compelling is Mo Zheng. Here he is side-by-side with the facial reconstruction of the "Asian Male" John Doe.



    We have no information to suggest that he had a missing front tooth, or a musculoskeletal disorder that may have affected his gait (as AMJD did). We also don't have any suggestion that he was a cross-dresser. Mo's dental and medical records aren't available to know one way or the other. Nor is there any available information pertaining to his lifestyle. The fact that something isn't mentioned should not lead one to presume that those characteristics don't exist with this person.

    As for the information that is available on Mo Zheng, it matches up very nicely with the particulars of AMJD.
    * His height 5'5" is within an inch of AMJD's estimated height.
    * His age 17 is within AMJD's 17-23 age estimate.
    * His date of last contact (09-Aug-2006) is consistent to AMJD's estimated date of death (i.e., 5-10 years prior to the 2011 discovery)
    * His circumstances of disappearance aren't clear. However, his disappearance was thought to be voluntary with no suggestion of foul play at the location of his last contact (Yorktown Virginia).

    And what is very interesting is the consistency of his facial structure to the artist's estimation of what AMJD might have looked like based on the shape of his skull.

    I've done animated GIF image clips in a couple of other cases to show how a person's face aligns up to a facial reconstruction.

    I thought that this technique would be appropriate in this case to show how closely Mo Zheng's facial structure aligns to the facial reconstruction sketch for Asian Male.



    The few minor differences in the eyes and breadth of the nose are well within the tolerances for this type of facial reconstruction based on purely skeletal remains.

    I called to the LISK taskforce hotline back in 2011 to suggest that they look at Mo Zheng. However, I have no way to know if they ever looked into the tip. The task force doesn't publicize rule-outs.

    According to NamUs, there are no identifiers of any kind (DNA, fingerprints, or dental records) on record for Mo Zheng. If that is true, so there would be no way that they could verify this tip even if they wanted to. Based on the lack of identifiers, I would have to presume that this is still an open issue as to whether Mo Zheng is AMJD.
    Great analysis Carl. I agree of these 6 MP's, Mo Zheng seems most likely. I wonder why there has been no news on if it could be him, from the thread here it looks like he was called in years ago.

    Maybe the new Documentary can put some pressure on authorities to get results.

    I also like up thread the possibility of Santiago, the facial shape looks consistent with the composite drawing of John Doe.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre E View Post
    I believe, the victim found on Long Island in 2011 and defined as Asian Male is Tirrel Santiago.

    Here is a comparison of the two

    ASIAN MALE is 66 inches
    TIRREL SANTIAGO is 66 inches

    ASIAN MALE is slim built
    TIRREL SANTIAGO is 115 pounds

    ASIAN MALE is dead in 2005
    TIRREL SANTIAGO went missing in August 2005

    ASIAN MALE is found in women's clothing
    TIRREL SANTIAGO dresses as a woman

    I believe Tirrel Santiago's skull was misattributed as Asian due to his mixed bloodline and that's it. A simple mistake prevents his identification.

    Another of the bodies, also yet to be identified, is believed to be that of an Asian male, Spota said.
    http://archive.longislandpress.com/2...ocean-parkway/

    The skeleton of an adult male, wearing women’s clothing and thought to be Asian in ethnicity,
    http://pix11.com/2014/08/05/the-hunt...beach-murders/

    Tirrel Santiago
    http://www.missingkids.com/photograp...C1180750c1.jpg

    Asian Male
    https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/17764

    Namus, SCPD and NYPD have been made aware about the possibility for more than a year. A DNA sample for Tirrel Santiago hasn't been collected so far.

    NAMUS records for the two
    TIRREL SANTIAGO
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9508/53

    ASIAN MALE
    https://identifyus.org/cases/9355

    http://madamestbeatrice.tumblr.com/p...irrel-santiago
    https://www.google.com.tr/?gws_rd=ssl#q=tirrel+santiago
    Great post.

    I agree, Tirrel Santiago is a strong possibility have you called it in?

    The only one thing to point out, IMO, is that - wouldn't hair still be near or around the skull?

    If so, then I think Tirrel's hair (if he was our JD) would strongly indicate that he is of partial African American decent... Even though his hair appears straight in pictures, to me it looks like it is chemically straightened.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalSleuth View Post
    Great post.

    I agree, Tirrel Santiago is a strong possibility have you called it in?

    The only one thing to point out, IMO, is that - wouldn't hair still be near or around the skull?

    If so, then I think Tirrel's hair (if he was our JD) would strongly indicate that he is of partial African American decent... Even though his hair appears straight in pictures, to me it looks like it is chemically straightened.
    Yes. I reported that to anywhere I could. No action taken so far.

    Everybody talks about poor people, black people, gay people, but when it comes to real work nobody wants to sweat. Hypocrisy is the cancer of the society.

    About the jawbone thing. The bone loss is a very rapid process, that's why when you get an implant the dentist puts a temporary implant. Because without the pressure bone mass is gone within just a few months.

    See, the picture.

    Right hand side comes down with a natural curve, lefthand side is indented. I don't know when Tirrel's picture is taken but given there is time between the photo and his death (I would really hope to be wrong, but I'm afraid I'm not) the "Asian" Male's indentation is slightly deeper, which is the expected progress.

    Santiago Asian Jaw Comparison.jpg

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre E View Post
    Yes. I reported that to anywhere I could. No action taken so far.

    Everybody talks about poor people, black people, gay people, but when it comes to real work nobody wants to sweat. Hypocrisy is the cancer of the society.

    About the jawbone thing. The bone loss is a very rapid process, that's why when you get an implant the dentist puts a temporary implant. Because without the pressure bone mass is gone within just a few months.

    See, the picture.

    Right hand side comes down with a natural curve, lefthand side is indented. I don't know when Tirrel's picture is taken but given there is time between the photo and his death (I would really hope to be wrong, but I'm afraid I'm not) the "Asian" Male's indentation is slightly deeper, which is the expected progress.

    Santiago Asian Jaw Comparison.jpg
    Yes. I agree.

    However what about the differences in hair between someone who is ''asian" vs. " African american"

    Do you think thst would be hair left where the skull of JD was found?

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalSleuth View Post
    Yes. I agree.

    However what about the differences in hair between someone who is ''asian" vs. " African american"

    Do you think thst would be hair left where the skull of JD was found?

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
    I don't know what they found, how well they examined it.

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