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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    135

    Observations of a newby

    Hi all. I don't post here much and I just recently took an interest in this case. Two things kind of stand out to me and I thought I'd share. Sorry if this may have already been discussed.

    First about the garrotte. I read all the analysis that said it wouldn't work. So I made my own and put it around my husband's wrist. Yes, he loves me that much . Anyway, when I pull it his arm and fisted hand twists and comes toward me. I have to put my other hand on his fist to get any type of leverage. So, IMO, the bruise/contusion below JBR's ear in the autopsy photo could have been cause by a ring twisted backwards. So I wonder what jewery PR, JR, and others were wearing that night particularly on their left hands.

    Second. The way JR carried JBR up the stairs bothers me. He said its because he wanted to save his baby, ect ect. A kind of loving father thing. BUT a loving father IMO would have cradled the body and not held her around the waist apart from his own body. Recently, we had our dear puppy dog put down. It happened after midnight last Monday. We brought him home from the vet and buried him the next morning. I can still see my husband cradling that 90 lb great dane as he carried him out to his grave. Full rigor mortis had sent in. That IMO is a picture of a man that loves his baby. The picture in my mind of JR carrying JBR up the stairs, her arms high above her head and her head above his is the picture of a man that really didn't want to touch her dead body (nothing wrong with that, I couldn't touch the puppy) but needs to bring her upstairs for some other reason. In other words I don't buy his reasoning for moving JBR and destroying the crime scene.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,971
    The way JR carried JBR up the stairs bothers me. He said its because he wanted to save his baby, ect ect. A kind of loving father thing. BUT a loving father IMO would have cradled the body and not held her around the waist apart from his own body.

    Welcome Leve,

    The man was in unspeakable agony and shock. He wasn't thinking about how to preserve a crime scene. All his actions at that moment,were "knee jerk" reactions.We've all had situations like that,where we answered: "I don't know,I have no idea why I did that.", and that was in much less stressful situations than what JR was dealing with. As far as JR holding JB far from him ... speaking for myself,the last thing I would want,is to feel my baby girl as cold and hard as a statue.In my hysterical state ... I might have done the same thing.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    135
    What I love about this site is such respectful posters. Coming from CTV its very refreshing.

    I agree with you. What I can't wrap my mind around is given the fact he was in "unspeakable agony and shock" and the thought of his feeling his baby girl as cold and hard as a statue......why pick her up? I can see calling for sissors to remove the ropes, I can see screaming for help, I can see removing the tape from her mouth, and I can even see having utter disregard for preserving the crime scene. I just can't see picking her up like that.

    I read the police officer's account of JR's reaction to finding JB, its one reason I am so confused about his involvement/noninvolvement in this case. I don't think anyone can "fake" the amount of pain she witnessed. I just don't believe his reasons for putting himself in that kind of agony.

    If you can't tell - I think the Ramsey's had something to do with their daughter's death but I don't know. If that makes any sense.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    6,932
    Quote Originally Posted by Leve
    Hi all. I don't post here much and I just recently took an interest in this case. Two things kind of stand out to me and I thought I'd share. Sorry if this may have already been discussed.

    First about the garrotte. I read all the analysis that said it wouldn't work. So I made my own and put it around my husband's wrist. Yes, he loves me that much . Anyway, when I pull it his arm and fisted hand twists and comes toward me. I have to put my other hand on his fist to get any type of leverage. So, IMO, the bruise/contusion below JBR's ear in the autopsy photo could have been cause by a ring twisted backwards. So I wonder what jewery PR, JR, and others were wearing that night particularly on their left hands.

    Second. The way JR carried JBR up the stairs bothers me. He said its because he wanted to save his baby, ect ect. A kind of loving father thing. BUT a loving father IMO would have cradled the body and not held her around the waist apart from his own body. Recently, we had our dear puppy dog put down. It happened after midnight last Monday. We brought him home from the vet and buried him the next morning. I can still see my husband cradling that 90 lb great dane as he carried him out to his grave. Full rigor mortis had sent in. That IMO is a picture of a man that loves his baby. The picture in my mind of JR carrying JBR up the stairs, her arms high above her head and her head above his is the picture of a man that really didn't want to touch her dead body (nothing wrong with that, I couldn't touch the puppy) but needs to bring her upstairs for some other reason. In other words I don't buy his reasoning for moving JBR and destroying the crime scene.

    Good question about the jewelry. Who knows what they were wearing (I can't even remember if they determinded this). It took a year or more for the police to finally get the clothes the R's were wearing the 24th, so I doubt they'll ever get to the bottom of the jewelry. If I remember correctly, the blouse that Patsy finally turned over was new.

    As for the way he carried her up the stairs, I think it was about crime scene contamination. I think he "found" the body much earlier, and when Ardnt sent him and Fleet on their hunt, he found her.

    There are just so many inconsistant statements and actions by the Ramsey's it boggles the mind.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    1,795
    It took a year or more for the police to finally get around to asking for the clothes they wore that night.

    I believe one of the interviews talks about her rings.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    9,189
    QUOTE>> If you can't tell - I think the Ramsey's had something to do with their daughter's death but I don't know. If that makes any sense.

    Yep, because thats where I'm at!
    If a Ramsey wasn't involved in JonBenet's death ,I would be very suprised.
    I'd like to think an IDI did it, but cant get past the Ramsey's suspicous behaviour and lies.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    9,189
    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    It took a year or more for the police to finally get around to asking for the clothes they wore that night.

    I believe one of the interviews talks about her rings.
    I thought it was that the Ramsey's took a year to finally hand over the clothes they wore that night to the police.


  8. #8
    Talking about the way John carried JonBenet's body upstairs. He couldn't 'cradle' the body horizontally or he wouldn't have fitted through the doorways. So he was restricted to carrying it in the vertical position. Someone has just stated on this thread that he held it around the waist and out away from his own body, which does sound a little odd. But actually, when you think about it, it probably was the most appropriate way of holding something rigid of that size and weight if you were trying to run up a flight of stairs as quickly as you possibly could. Think of a log of wood 5 ft long, that is exactly how you would hold it to run up stairs with it. Although if you were a strong man you might carry it balanced on one shoulder. Perhaps John should have done it that way, then people could have really got stuck into him. Or maybe he should have grabbed her ponytail and dragged her upstairs by her hair.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,795
    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    I thought it was that the Ramsey's took a year to finally hand over the clothes they wore that night to the police.
    From ST's depo:
    Q. Did it strike you as odd that the Boulder Police Department never made a request to the Ramsey
    family to obtain the articles of clothing that they wore on the 25th of December for almost a year?



    MR. DIAMOND: Are you representing that is the case?

    Q. (BY MR. WOOD) I think Mr. Thomas knows that is absolutely the case, don't you?

    A. Which question?

    Q. That the one that I -- well, the Boulder Police Department didn't ask John and Patsy Ramsey for
    the articles of clothing they had worn on the 25th of December, 1996 until almost a year later, true?
    A. For a long time, that was a mistake, yes.

    Somewhere I've seen the specific dates of the request. If I find them I'll add them in.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    511
    Another reason JR may have held JonBenet "away" from him is that she had an odor of decay about her. As Det. Arndt stated.

    I still think it's odd that he picked her up and brought her upstairs.
    He claims to have been very concerned about Patsy SEEING JonBenet.
    His instinct should have then been to call down the detective to the basement - and keep Patsy at bay.
    He had NO way of knowing that perhaps Patsy had wandered into the part of the house where he rushed up with JonBenet.

    This is just one more of the "fishy" things that went on in the house that morning.
    This post is my opinion.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    Another reason JR may have held JonBenet "away" from him is that she had an odor of decay about her. As Det. Arndt stated.

    I still think it's odd that he picked her up and brought her upstairs.
    He claims to have been very concerned about Patsy SEEING JonBenet.
    His instinct should have then been to call down the detective to the basement - and keep Patsy at bay.
    He had NO way of knowing that perhaps Patsy had wandered into the part of the house where he rushed up with JonBenet.

    This is just one more of the "fishy" things that went on in the house that morning.

    I'm almost sure I heard this years ago...that John said that he attempted CPR???
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,543
    Welcome, Leve.

    Someone here, but can't remember who, did some "experimentation" with rings and that person also thinks that the neck marks were made by Patsy's ring. The poster had some very convincing information. Maybe someone will remember who this was and he/she will post accordingly.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah
    Welcome, Leve.

    Someone here, but can't remember who, did some "experimentation" with rings and that person also thinks that the neck marks were made by Patsy's ring. The poster had some very convincing information. Maybe someone will remember who this was and he/she will post accordingly.
    Wolfmarsgirl. Funnily enough, I just bumped up her posts at my forum earlier today. Here's her webpage:-

    http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    6,932
    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    I thought it was that the Ramsey's took a year to finally hand over the clothes they wore that night to the police.
    It was the Ramsey's who took so long. And I'm sure I read where the shirt Patsy turned over was new, not the one she wore that day/night, but a look-alike. The Ramsey's stalled and stammered at every piont, and in the mean time, they tossed everyone under the bus.

    And how about looking for the "Killer" like they said they were going to do...they haven't done a thing. They probably lunch with OJ.

    There is no way the things the R's did can be explained away. The police made many mistakes, but the L's lawyered-up and that was that. I am sure had the crime scene been preserved, the little breakfast bunch not allowed in the house, and the R's talked to separately...this would have been solved a long time ago. The person I feel bad for is Burke....but I think he will eventually solve this mystery once and for all...eventually.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    6,932
    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    Another reason JR may have held JonBenet "away" from him is that she had an odor of decay about her. As Det. Arndt stated.

    I still think it's odd that he picked her up and brought her upstairs.
    He claims to have been very concerned about Patsy SEEING JonBenet.
    His instinct should have then been to call down the detective to the basement - and keep Patsy at bay.
    He had NO way of knowing that perhaps Patsy had wandered into the part of the house where he rushed up with JonBenet.

    This is just one more of the "fishy" things that went on in the house that morning.
    I think the entire thing was about contaminating the crime scene. You're right, had he been concerned about Patsy seeing Jonbenet, he would have left JonBenet in the basement.

    There are so many "fishy" things that went on in that house, that it would take a net the size of Texas to contain it all.

    The one thing that happened that made me not believe a word out of the R's mouth was the ransome note, and the tea party they had that morning. I guess they weren't worried about their little girl being "beheaded" if they talk to a stray dog....That was a HUH moment for me.


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