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  1. #1
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    Position of arms

    Something that seems really odd to me is the way that JB's arms were "tied" above her head. Think about how difficult that would be to accomplish with a child flailing about and her arms going every which way. If she were rendered unconscious first, then WHY even place her arms in that position?

    I would think the most common and easiest position would have been to have tied them behind her back. Unless, of course, she had been slightly suspended in some way from her arms. I realize that due to livor mortis and such, that she was not actually hanging with her full body weight, but could she have been partially suspended against something, such as the headboard of her bed, or something else? In reading the autopsy report, it stated that the cord was slightly higher in the back of her neck.

    From the autopsy report:

    "The ligature furrow crosses the anterior midline of the neck just below the
    laryngeal prominence, approximately at the level of the cricoid cartilage. It is almost completely horizontal with slight upward deviation from the horizontal towards the back of the neck. The
    midline of the furrow mark on the
    anterior neck is 8 inches below the top of the head. The midline of the furrow mark on the posterior neck is 6.75 inches below the top of the head."

    This is one of those things that I don't have settled in my mind. Any comments?

    Edited to make a correction.

  2. #2
    ajt400Guest

    Thumbs up

    That's a really good question....
    Since alot of this crime involoves staging, do you think her body was staged a cetain way, and JR just messed it up when he carried her upstairs.

    I know he has already said how he found the body, but he certainly wouldn't have the attention to detail.....

  3. #3
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    I guess that would depend upon the actual time that he found the body. By 1:00 p.m., she was in full rigor. However, if he discovered the body earlier, then....could he have repositioned the body in some way? I know that has been well debated here in the past.

    John Walsh made the comment that "JR cut her down." We never knew if that were a mistake on his part, or inside information that he had been privy to and blurted out. That, combined with the arms over the head, and the slight upward position of the ligature on her neck, makes me wonder.

    Another thing, is that she supposedly was killed while lying on her stomach, as evidenced by the urine stain patterns. But think about this....she is on her stomach with a garrotte around her neck and someone tightening it. Wouldn't the neck ligature have been more in a downward position at the back of her neck, as opposed to being slightly upward, if this were the scenario?

  4. #4
    MaxiGuest
    Perhaps the killer posed her with her arms tied over her head after she was dead. It's a typical bondage pose, but not very practical for really restraining someone. I think there would have been ligature marks on JBR's wrists, even through the shirt cuffs, if she had struggled much.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Maxi
    Perhaps the killer posed her with her arms tied over her head after she was dead. It's a typical bondage pose, but not very practical for really restraining someone. I think there would have been ligature marks on JBR's wrists, even through the shirt cuffs, if she had struggled much.
    I would agree with all your observations. The killer could also have dragged JB into the windowless room by her arms, then quickly posed the body.
    This is my opinion, and change is good.

  6. #6
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    There is no evidence of JonBenet having been suspended; there is considerable evidence to indicate that no suspension took place.

    John Ramsey found his daughter at about 1:00pm and not at any earlier occasion.

    The fact that anyone else finding her would most probably have realized she was dead does not change the fact that his brain rebelled against such evidence as he somewhat foolishly clung to a desperate hope.

  7. #7
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    JB's arms in that position could be an indication of an accident. Tying her arms together, gently, could have just been a control tactic by somebody who cared about her, and something went bad...culminating in her death. The perp, being very distraught, might not have paid much attention to that detail at the time. It's funny that's what John did first...untie those hands. IMO, he should have tried CPR.

    I don't think she was suspended, or at least not for long, if at all.

  8. #8
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    Livor mortis in the body suggested that she had been lying on her back with her arms above her head and that her body had not been moved. For those who don't know, livor mortis the the pooling of blood in the lowest portions of the body and is a good indication of body position. Had she been suspended, even slightly, gravity would have had her blood pooling in the lowest portions of her body. So there would not have been the pattern of livor mortis that was seen. There would have been more blood in the lower portion of her torso and legs. I believe that her arms and upper back showed livor mortis. Therefore, she had to have been flat on her back when livor mortis set it. This occurs about 1 to 2 hours after death, so does not rule out any kind of initial staging. It does however rule out John having lied about how he found her body at 1:00.

  9. #9
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    I have posted my theory on this before concerning JBR's arms above her head.I felt it was part of the staging by someone who cared as to give the appearance that she was merely "asleep"along side her favorite nightgown.My own two daughters used to sleep in this position quite frequently.
    IN MY OPINION

  10. #10
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    Arielle, could she have been in more of a sitting position, or lying against something with her lower body, with her arms tied above her head and onto something? That way, there would be no weight actually suspended.

    Please explain more of what you mean about the liver mortis and possibly John having lied about how he found the body at 1:00.


  11. #11
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    Originally posted by FULTON
    I have posted my theory on this before concerning JBR's arms above her head.I felt it was part of the staging by someone who cared as to give the appearance that she was merely "asleep"along side her favorite nightgown.My own two daughters used to sleep in this position quite frequently.
    I think that's a GOOD possibility, too, FULTON. If the parents left JB on her bed too long, in that position, she probably got rigor and they couldn't 'undo' it.

  12. #12
    MaxiGuest
    Rather than having been suspended, do you think it's possible that her wrists were bound above her head and the ligature tied to an object while she was lying down? That would also be typical of a bondage pose.

  13. #13
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    That's a possibility, maxi. That wouldn't change the livor much, IMO. If JB had struggled in that position, though, would we see more signs of damage on her neck?

  14. #14
    MaxiGuest
    I was thinking that she might have been tied to something by the wrist ligatures, not by the neck ligature. So signs of struggle would show on her wrists.

    It's probably a crazy idea. It's just that the position of her arms look more like posing to me than practical contraint -- unless the wrist ligatures were originally tied to something like a bedpost.

    Of course, someone who was just posing her body to make it look like a kidnapping gone wrong might not consider that arms over head is dramatic looking but not practical.

  15. #15
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    along side her favorite nightgown.
    Favorite??

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