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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
    It makes sense in as much as on his version he asked reeva to bring in the fans and close the curtains before she went to sleep. The female psychologist Dr Vorster testified that people with anxiety like pistorius would still be able to trust their partner to close windows and doors.

    However she also said that she would have expected a homeowner to lock up ladders outside his home.
    Where is the evidence that this sentence ever had been said? Maybe it is also construction on OP's side because it fits with the intruder and fear story or with whatever.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    Where is the evidence that this sentence ever had been said? Maybe it is also construction on OP's side because it fits with the intruder and fear story or with whatever.
    If OP said it court then it's evidence. It doesn't mean it has to be accepted but it is evidence.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    I would have the same (bad) picture of a man with these characteristics if it had been another guy. If another perp had been more uggly, with less well-built body and with less charming skills, then my opinion would be even more negative, I admit.
    I understand what you are saying but in addition do you think that's the reason why his "SupportforOscar" fans still love him- his looks etc ?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    Where is the evidence that this sentence ever had been said? Maybe it is also construction on OP's side because it fits with the intruder and fear story or with whatever.
    Exactly - most judges would say they cannot rely on the evidence of someone they have judged to be lying and then have no choice but to discount all of their evidence.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
    It makes sense in as much as on his version he asked reeva to bring in the fans and close the curtains before she went to sleep. The female psychologist Dr Vorster testified that people with anxiety like pistorius would still be able to trust their partner to close windows and doors.

    However she also said that she would have expected a homeowner to lock up ladders outside his home.
    You are right that he asked her to close the windows but even so, he goes to sleep, leaving her awake and ladders lying around. So the exact same scenario that he claims took place could have happened with an awake Reeva and a sleeping Pistorius suddenly confronted by intruder/s.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cottonweaver View Post
    Merryl Vorster's psych assessment, paid for the Defence was GAD.

    GAD was not found after the full assessment by the forensic psychs panel.

    MV's view carried no weight.


    And to pre-empt the same refrain - yes, personally I do accept the psych panel's view. (It's a full panel. One psych view - no I would treat with caution.) So , if I was him and had killed my GF in a rage, faced long stretch in Kgosi, lost my income, career and reputation I would be having flashbacks, hallmarks of PTSD (very common ) and depressed- You betcha!

    Of course pre-crime, I guess that if OP had seen a professional - yes they may have found something wrong with him. Borderline case - yes. Personality disorder - maybe? PD is not a mental defect though - criminally sane & culpable either way.
    It is worth bearing in mind too that he was allowed to do it on an outpatient basis when normally the testing is done with the patient in residence. And his aunt is a clinical psychologist or similar who could have helped coach him. Was`nt the reason for this change in normal testing procedures because Masipa didn`t want to punish him twice? So IMO the results of the testing could have been compromised by the special circumstances allowed for OP. And please Trotterly et al don`t tell me that the state didn`t object to this. I know they didn`t, but many professionals said it was not the best way to preform this type of testing.
    Last edited by lithgow1; 07-16-2015 at 11:37 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by cottonweaver View Post
    Exactly - most judges would say they cannot rely on the evidence of someone they have judged to be lying and then have no choice but to discount all of their evidence.
    Did you think it an odd conclusion of her`s that because he was so distraught after the shooting that meant he couldn`t have intended to do it? That seemed quite bizarre thinking: that being remorseful after doing something means you can`t have intended to do it. I am sure many crimes of passion, which is what this was IMO, are instances of rage, violence and immediate regret. We can even think of much more ordinary examples in our own lives when in the heat of an argument you say something cutting which you immediately wish you could take back.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    It is worth bearing in mind too that he was allowed to do it on an outpatient basis when normally the testing is done with the patient in residence. And his aunt is a clinical psychologist or similar who could have helped coach him. Was`nt the reason for this change in normal testing procedures because Masipa didn`t want to punish him twice? So IMO the results of the testing could have been compromised by the special circumstances allowed for OP. And please Trotterly et al don`t tell me that the state didn`t object to this. I know they didn`t, but many professionals said it was not the best way to preform this type of testing.
    In inpatient assessment is still better than an assessment by a layperson who has never even met him!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    In inpatient assessment is still better than an assessment by a layperson who has never even met him!
    .....so how do you know that he's innocent of murder then .............

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    Did you think it an odd conclusion of her`s that because he was so distraught after the shooting that meant he couldn`t have intended to do it? That seemed quite bizarre thinking: that being remorseful after doing something means you can`t have intended to do it. I am sure many crimes of passion, which is what this was IMO, are instances of rage, violence and immediate regret. We can even think of much more ordinary examples in our own lives when in the heat of an argument you say something cutting which you immediately wish you could take back.
    I think you misunderstand her. She had already concluded that he didn't mean to shoot her and was at that point examining the DE of Reeva. I suppose her logic is that he seemed genuinely distraught and so it's unlikely that he would have gone ahead and shot anyway if he had had any idea it was Reeva.


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    In inpatient assessment is still better than an assessment by a layperson who has never even met him!
    But the best would be the way the experts recommend wouldn`t it?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin de France View Post
    .....so how do you know that he's innocent of murder then .............
    I don't know that. I have seen the evidence and don't think the state made their case.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    Did you think it an odd conclusion of her`s that because he was so distraught after the shooting that meant he couldn`t have intended to do it? That seemed quite bizarre thinking: that being remorseful after doing something means you can`t have intended to do it. I am sure many crimes of passion, which is what this was IMO, are instances of rage, violence and immediate regret. We can even think of much more ordinary examples in our own lives when in the heat of an argument you say something cutting which you immediately wish you could take back.
    .............taking Reeva downstairs to meet any oncoming accusation and throwing on the tears is a perfectly normal way of reacting for someone being calculative........

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    I don't know that. I have seen the evidence and don't think the state made their case.
    Do you think he intended to kill the `intruder` in the toilet and it was a justified act of self defence?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    But the best would be the way the experts recommend wouldn`t it?
    Yes, it would have been but that doesn't alter the point that the professionals who interviewed and tested him over the course of many days know what they are doing. The advantages of training, experience and having actually met him (!) are a good basis for their views I'd say - which were generally pretty positive about him in fact.

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